Altior vs Footpad

Altior often just does enough but is such a versatile horse with a real turn of foot. I think he would smash Footpad to pieces.

^
I don't.....the crucial part of the CC this year was when Altior was in a spot of bother there was nothing good enough left in the field that could win the race at that exact moment, if you put Footpad in that race at that point he would be gone and the race would be over making Altior's strong finish null and void.

Altior's finishing kick as good as it was, was only achieved because there was nothing classy left in the race to have punished him whilst he struggled, the way Footpad's travels through the race, Altior's moment when he's outpaced will be even greater trying to keep tabs on him and will compromise him at the end IMO.

Completely agree duffy, let’s hope they both make it there.

will footpad be aimed at the race,mullins did mention the gold cup after he won the arkle if i remember correctly

The fact Mullins said that makes me even more confident the horse will be aimed for the Champion Chase.

I’ve not seen a horse that loves the Cheltenham hill like Altior does.

I think he’d smash Footpad tbh in a Cheltenham race over anything between 2m and 2m 4f

altior

it will be like ali against jack bodell.

Huge fan of Altior, and he certainly finishes his races off very strongly at Cheltenham.
Will take some beating for sure, but Footpad looks a real good one, and think he will prove a tough challenger.

Footpad far more flexible. Two and a half mile hurdler. GC Ryanair or QM on the horizon. Loves the heavy . Willie wont worry about ALTIOR he has MIN as the barometer and will definitely have enough ammo to put it up to Hendo's hero, the trainer nearly pulled altior out last year.

Forgot to mention that according to wner on atr today brain power beats altior all hands down on hendos gallops ...where does that put footpads 14 length arkle beating ? ?

It doesn’t put it anywhere as it’s well documented that Brain Power is a phenomenal work horse, but doesn’t bring that to the track.

Im with Duffy. Think Altior showed at the festival this year, that he could be put in trouble over 2m by a good enough horse, and I think Footpad is a more than good enough horse. Could see Footpad winning and Altior moving up in trip, which might be the natural progression as he gets older anyway.

Like a lot of people, I thought Altior was beat in the QM. He ended up winning by a wide margin. Was phenomenal what he done imo.
Just shows what he finds when he gets going and sees that hill!!
Everytime he has run at Cheltenham,he simply devours it.

Will be interesting if he runs a similar race next March, and Footpad is in the race.
No way of knowing now of course, but my gut feeling is Altior would have to be left a fair bit behind to get beat.I don't think he will be far enough myself.But having said that Footpad is a danger, no doubt.


Bookies have it right imo.

By the way Brain Power was reportedly working all over Buveur Dair prior the Champion Hurdle he ran in.
Take no notice on that one.

I think it's possible that they won't clash at Cheltenham, with ALTIOR going to the QMCC and Footpad stepping up in trip. Willie Mullins will want a strong hand in his search for a Gold Cup, and Footpad could be at the forefront of that campaign, given the stamina he has shown in the past. If he improves for the step up in trip, that would be most interesting.

That would be a real shame for the 2m division which needs competiveness.
With the stables desire to win the Gold Cup it would not be the biggest shock.

I'd like to see GREAT FIELD have a season clear of injury.  He might be nowhere near these 2 but he sure is exciting to watch. He too is with Mullins and this could also point to Footpad going up in trip if GF is the real deal?

At the prices Great Field is massively underrated. He's made of glass but if he lines up he has a massive chance. His style of running would put both Footpad and Altior on the back foot for sure.

25/1 is a steal if he's sound this season. Will be closer to 4/1 on the day.

I think they could campaign Douvan longer this year so depending how he gets on will dictate the others. Footpad could easily go Ryanair Min Champion or vice versa

dont the owners of footpad have a say ? would think footpad would be either champion or gold cup if things go well could only see ryanair if not as good as they think he is.could also depend on what other horses the owners of footpad have,without checking think sceau royal(champion chase) and terrefort (gold cup) are owned by them and could also decide were they go with footpad if either come up to the grade

TBH I think Mullins will decide were it goes like the rest of his horses. That's why gigginstown isn't around

I would like to see Footpad in the Ryanair and Gold Cup markets, I've backed it for the Champion Chase so he is sure to go for one of the other options now

I think footpad will go for the champion. He has a great chance of beating altior. The 2 mile chasing division is crying out for a duel and footpad v altior could be a cracker. I think min should go for the ryanair. Altior has beaten min convincingly twice now and cant see him turning around the form.

Always like to see the Arkle winner take on the current champ.
Would certainly add to the build up to march if we know these two will meet.
Probably wont know though during the season.

Would love to see Altior v Footpad.

That way we might get odds against on The Machine

Only one winner come on Altior

You can tell from the interview with Danny Mullins on the Final Furlong podcast that the Stable still think have faith that Douvan can with the Champion Chase. Can't see them chucking Douvan, Min and Footpad at this.... and with Willie's comments last season that he feels Footpad could stay further then a good chance they will let the Ricci horses taken on Altior and move Footpad up in trip. Although Simon Munir might have something to day about that!

I think Footpad will duel against Altior as his owners are not afraid to a duel either eg sending two of theirs to the same race last season, On the other hand Douvan would be unlikely, I think, as he's on the downgrade (I firmly believe) and not like Mullins given past experience. Min do not have a clue, and I do not care either as I do not believe he's good enough for either the Champion or Ryanair if Altior and/or Foot[ad in contention.

The runs of Altior in the races preceding to The Champion Chase eg running in snatches were disconcerting - he could also be on the downgrade and/or could not in love with the game much longer, I believe, but I hope not.

I happened to watch all of Altiors runs last night and even in the early days he hit that flat spot and looked in a bit of trouble. Watch his xmas novice hurdle run, comes round the bend under the pump but leads over two out and goes on to win easy! How can you say he could be on the downgrade and not be in love with the game anymore? If that was the case I think he would have been beaten last season. Snatches are part of Altior and we all know it will happen but we also know what the end result will be. I also think there will be the clash in the QM and imo they will be both unbeaten. May the best horse win

It's only an opinion, and with his present price and race being 5 months away is not a better proposition as I cannot see contraction. Nevertheless, the win of Altior in the Supreme Hurdle over Min and Buveur D'Air was sublime and magical.

Agree with Wes, listening to the FF podcast it does appear that they still have lots of faith in Douvan, also, with Mullins really needing to win a GC and with the way that Footpad moves through his races there must be a strong temptation to see if he'll stretch out.

They missed the boat with trying it with Vautour and I think they might try it with Footpad, must be a good chance of testing the water in the KG which would give an indication at least of whether he's a possible stayer....he'll blitz around Kempton wouldn't he.

For me it would be a shame if Footpad does not go the QM route.
Personally think hes the only horse around that could prevent a virtual walkover.

Mullins on Footpad........

"He can do any trip from two miles to three miles. I’m thinking we might start him off over two miles and then let him out to two and a half.

"Three miles at Christmas for the King George is a possibility, but a lot will depend on how he comes out of his first two races."

Yep, sounds like its unlikely he will end up in the QM, although things could change of course, but don't look like its what they want at this stage.

I think the Gold Cup is too much of a stamina test, most likely go Queen Mother although I would not be surprised if they went Ryanair. Nobody will know for sure until the final declarations, they will keep us guessing until then, and with plenty of comments to muddy the waters in the run up.

I've learnt that whatever Mullins says the best thing to do is to ignore it, or do the the opposite

Footpad for The King George? With respect, I believe Mullins said the same about Douvan a couple of seasons ago. With Douvan suffering from recurring "lameness" I'd be surprised if he is ever competitive, if so, probably Champion Chase or Ryanair, and whichever race Min is not.

As usual speaking for the bookies, no  doubt.

Well Min is not able to beat Altior,but Footpad may be.
Douvan I cannot have at all now,and even at his best I aint sure he could cope with Altior.
To me its a no brainer if they want to have a chance of winning the QM.
Yes he may be a Gold Cup horse but I aint sure he will have proved that to connections before March.

If he has not convinced connections, he should run in the QM.....he is the Arkle winner!!

To add........bl00dy glad I aint got an antepost voucher On Footpad for the QM.
Just aint worth the sweat all the way to March.
To be honest though, I cant blame anyone that has, I thought he was a cert to go QM.

What might put a fly in the ointment is if Altior goes for the KG, which Henderson has intimated is possible.
I feel they consider 2 miles may not be his optimum trip any more. If he did run and and win the KG well, that would introduce a fascinating dilemma for connections.

I said a few years ago that Hendo might be thinking the Blue Ribband for Altior.

Perhaps this may come to fruition.

If the King George doesn't go to plan they can always gobble up another Champion Chase.

I presume Altior is going to the Tingle Creek early December.
And would he really have him taking on Might Bite?
Cannot see it myself.

Hendo knows he's vulnerable to a horse that can travel at pace throughout the 2 miles, when Altior was in trouble in the QM this year, with Douvan down, there was nothing left to open up and put the race to bed. IF there was a Footpad in that racxe, Altior's finishing kick may have been rendered moot.

May have been,yes possible.
Personally think the way he finishes his races he will take a heck of a lot of beating.
I do accept though that Footpad could be one that could beat him.
Nowt else around at 2m for him to worry about imo.

Normally I'd be desperate to see Footpad take Altior on as it would be a great race and the race needs it, I really wanted Vautour to be given his chance. On this occasion though I find myself really curious to see how far Footpad will stay...competitively!!

I'd like Mullins to set out to target the KG and bearing in mind how that went go up or down from there.

Having said that we could still be left wondering as we often are as the differential between Kempton's 3 and Cheltenham's 3 and a 1/4 is stark. To that end the Lexus may be a better option with regards answering the stamina question.

Yes the extra in the Gold Cup takes many of them beyond breaking point, the hill after 3m no doubt the final blow.


I would like to see Altior remain at 2m and mop up, unless he needs further with age. Some argue he has always needed further, but his sheer class has seen him good enough to dominate the division.

Duffy
You would probably have another Vautour situation if they went to the King George.
He very nearly won the race and still did not convince them enough to have a go at the Gold Cup.
Lexus may well be the better option.
Having said that, the KG aint a bad race to win!!
I just hope that for the horses sake they don't try and make a Gold Cup horse out of him and he then shows he aint one!!
If he were mine,i would stick to 2 miles this season up to March,take on Altior,and then think about a gradual step up towards the end of the season,Aintree or Punchestown maybe?
Mind you if he beat Altior,then he will have proved a darn good 2 miler.

Budd, you think Might Bite v Altior is unlikely but the owner will surely have a say? Dodging the KG if that is thought to be the race for him, would not please me were I to own Altior.

My own view is that, should both horses start, Altior would be favourite, in which case the owner would have to be highly charitable to pass it by.

There's nothing remotely comparable in status around the midpoint of the season for 2 milers and it would be the ideal testing ground for Altior's stamina. While the Tingle Creek is a little close for comfort, that could well be an exhibition round for Altior. If he were mine, I know where I'd be heading.

I just don't think Hendo will want them to take each other on,especially when one of them is unproven at the distance.Yes,owners will have a say if they feel its needed,but the trainer has to advise them as to the right thing for the horses I would think.
For me, Altior is the top 2m horse around.and Might Bite the top 3m horse around.
I would gear their season around those facts,and not mess about.
Altior-Tingle Creek,Might Bite-King George,then a race each sometime before March.

You are probably right and certainly there's no money for Altior in the KG.

Henderson has mentioned stepping up in trip, though. Maybe have a look at something like the Ascot Chase? Again, though, if he were mine, I'd want to get a good idea of whether a Gold Cup challenge might be feasible and, while you might get that from a KG challenge, a two and a half miler would tell you little. My logic is that, without Might Bite, the KG would be a very likely target and why should the owner divert elsewhere simply on account of a stablemate's target?

I think throwing some loose change at the near 20/1 on offer for the KG may not be my worst ploy; much can happen between now and Boxing Day.

I think a step-up in distance for Altior if he clearly shows that is necessary post The Tingle Creek. If he wins convincingly he'll be destined for the Champion Chase, I firmly believe.

Might bite will walk the king george

Footpad (FR) entered Naas on Saturday 10th Nov 2.15

And the build up to the potential race of the season is over before it even got started.

Ah well back to drawing board.

The plan B make sure you have half the bank for Altior at 11/10 to right any Tuesday wrongs up in smoke

Dreadful round of jumping.
Not much else to say really.

Looks like he may have hurt himself early in the race,so see how he gets on  next time out I would think.

Footpad is an admirable sort but not in the same league as Altior.  Never was never will be.

I'm pretty sure Footpad is much better than the form shown the other day. The run in the RSA at Cheltenham is of the highest order, 7 seconds faster than Altior in the QM, and on slightly worse ground too, only carrying 7lb less than Altior

another poor performance and I would be worried, but until then I'm prepared to put a line through the run

Arkle even..........

Footpad is alot better than that run,he probably would have been around 70/80% fit but I also have a feeling coming into open company he might need a bit of a trip. He seemed at times to be forcing it but again it's early days as a horse not fit would be doing the same - I wouldn't be writing him off just yet

Change this thread to Altior v The Field

Nov 13, 2018 -- 5:52PM, willie the milk wrote:

Change this thread to Altior v The Field

"Great Field" if all goes tits up with footpad.

Footpad was majestic against his fellow novice chasers last season, but he was no match with Altior over hurdles over 2m. I think Altior is the one to beat (again) if ground is not too sticky, all being well. And I'm expecting confirmation in The Tingle Creek.

Altior back tomorrow.
Looks a good race even with only 4 runners.
Hope he is fit enough to continue his winning ways.
My old favourite UDS takes him on,and he provided me with a great day out winning this couple of years ago, not financially, just loved watching him.
Be interesting to see how he gets on against the best 2 miler around.If he was to beat Altior fair and square that would put the cat amongst the pigeons.
Probably be in front(if he can get past Calvados, who should lead I would think) and get caught up the hill by Altiors superb finishing he shows in every race.

Fascinating race, cant wait.

After today, this thread is becoming more and more likely to be obsolete.

Well I’m sure I’m not alone in believing that wasn’t Footpad’s true running the last day but if it was then so be it.

For the sake of racing, I hope to see a competitive Champion Chase and still believe Footpad is the horse that could give Altior most to think about.

I’ve not seen today’s Tingle Creek due to being out, only the result. If that was Saint Calvados true running then I must admit that’s disappointing.

Altior was the best novice hurdler over 2m in the same year as Footpad. He also beat the horse that was crowned 2x Champion Hurdle Buveur D'Air (BD) - Footpad was defeated by BD.

Altior has transferred his hurdling prowess to fencing. Also, Altior has more fencing experience than Footpad. Footpad at his best is a good horse, but not in the same parish as Altior, I firmly believe.

Altior v Simply Ned?

Oh well, I think we learnt yesterday that the Irish have no serious candidates against Altior.
Footpad beaten by Simply Ned so has to improve massively before March.
Great Field I was hoping could be another front runner that excites like the great UDS,but he was beaten when he fell(again).