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eric_morris
07 Mar 18 17:49
Joined:
Date Joined: 27 Jun 10
| Topic/replies: 8,018 | Blogger: eric_morris's blog
I just tried to place a medium size antepost bet and it didnt even go to traders just auto calculated I could have £111 on to win £1000.

Is this sh*tty accountancy measure going to be in place the whole fkin Festival?

Maybe one of their reps can explain this. Coral took full stake it without even blinking.
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Report eric_morris March 7, 2018 5:50 PM GMT
Fk me couldnt even buy a years membership at some gyms with that win ..
Report eric_morris March 7, 2018 6:07 PM GMT
Maybe I should cancel £900 Cheltenham entry tickets/parking permits, £600 accommodation and go to Coral Bingo I would probably have a chance of winning much more for far less.
Report unclepuncle March 7, 2018 7:08 PM GMT
For 98% of punters £1k is easily enough. Only high rollers like you and arbers like me suffer.Laugh
Report eric_morris March 7, 2018 7:13 PM GMT
I'm not a high roller to be fair. The ITV commentators can cut the gravy-train bshit and ask the reps why steaks are being autocalculated on the phones.
Report unclepuncle March 7, 2018 7:15 PM GMT
I would say anything over £100 is considered a high roller by Lad/Cor. They are a disgrace.
Report eric_morris March 7, 2018 7:21 PM GMT
No in the past they have been very fair if you arent an arber.

Times are a changing at Ladbrokes if they are auto-calculating maximum wins over the phone for the Festival.
Report unclepuncle March 7, 2018 7:43 PM GMT
Corals closed my account and reneged on a bet when I had £4K at 5/4 on Man Utd to finish top 4.
About 3 monthis later I noticed the odds on my bet had been changed to 8/11. They claimed 5/4 was an error even though I showed them it was advertised on their official twitter feed, Eventually agreed to void the bet.
Been on stop ever since.Grin
Report layemall March 7, 2018 8:29 PM GMT
Did they finish top 4 the year you had that bet?.....if so, why agree to have it voided?
Report BigField March 7, 2018 8:40 PM GMT
made a new account with them a week or 2 back and they allowed me (my first and so far only bet with them) £50 e/w on Le Breuil 25/1 for the coral cup, they must not like you eric!
Report BigField March 7, 2018 8:42 PM GMT
potential return £1600 or something like that
Report eric_morris March 7, 2018 8:59 PM GMT
It might have just been introduced
Report BigField March 7, 2018 9:03 PM GMT
Ah yes maybe so, proper bookies this lot :D
Report BigField March 7, 2018 9:04 PM GMT
Wonder if they'd limit your stake on the casino or slots? ;)
Report impossible123 March 7, 2018 9:44 PM GMT
In the days when bookies were bookies £100k on a single bet was the norm, was it not? It can only get worse, I think, with 4 betting behemoths down to 3 now with the merger of 'crooks' and 'ok koral'.
Report eric_morris March 8, 2018 12:26 AM GMT
The bookies complain about fobts stakes by saying it will cost jobs in shops. Well what about the £2000 punters would take away from the Cheltenham economy if they cant get any half decent bets on the Festival so lose interest in going.  How many jobs would that cost their local economy.
Report Ramruma March 8, 2018 6:10 AM GMT
Is it possible OP ran into some sort of automatic defence mechanism because lots of punters were requesting the same bet after hours, perhaps because it had been tipped up at one of the Cheltenham preview evenings?
Report liberator of the oppressed March 8, 2018 6:53 AM GMT
You can have a zillion in a FOBT no questions would you like a cuppa sir and a tenner in shops who can remember the amber/green/red malarkey or £2.80 max if you are lucky on line. My account was previously a losing one Laddies have made dosh off me over the years one multiple up won few quid and that's it for ever. Great business model if I dare say so. Shop elsewhere if you can.
Report eric_morris March 8, 2018 6:58 AM GMT
It could be that Ramruma, will know next time try to get on.
Report liberator of the oppressed March 8, 2018 7:06 AM GMT
Could have been worse Eric if you had the bet with Willies you would have only got 'insurance'. You couldn't make it up.
Report eric_morris March 8, 2018 7:13 AM GMT
Liberator got caught with that on a small bet last year. I might need insurance when the mrs finds out how much my shoes were (£105) for Cheltenham ha ha. Never paid anywhere near that before clothes have gone up a lot! Looking for a trouser belt in Next, which used to be a fairly cheap shop, £25 ! for a belt, my bldy trousers to put them on never used to cost that :) sign of getting older.
Report geoff m March 8, 2018 8:03 AM GMT
think yer sen lucky. most are limited to far less.
Report eric_morris March 8, 2018 8:23 AM GMT
Not lucky if you dont arb. Most on here arb imo. If you place larger amounts you cant arb it back on here antepost as the liquidity is too low in advance of races.
Report eric_morris March 8, 2018 8:28 AM GMT
Bookies will be aware of those with high turnovers backing a hundred pounds or under antepost singles which can be arbed with the low antepost amounts on here. Think those accounts are favourites to be limited.
Report eric_morris March 8, 2018 8:54 AM GMT
When you arb you are not really taking a view on a horse, your skills against the traders arent being tested, it is a simple cut a profit transaction.

If you take a view and have a lump on a single or multiple (especially without nrnb) you are taking a view on a horse and carry that risk until the day. It takes skill in picking winners to make a profit.

They are two totally different ways of betting. Arbers are new world, lumpers are old world. I think arbers are the reason we are all getting restricted.
Report eric_morris March 8, 2018 9:10 AM GMT
Dont forget the profit an arber makes is directly proportional to the price he gets and the amount he can get on up to the maximum amount they can lay back quickly on here (to cut risk of nrs when no nrnb) for as many horses as possible. That takes no real knowledge of the horses chance of winning the race.

The bookies have made the arbers job easier by introducing nrnb antepost because arbers can now risk placing larger amounts with bookies and holding on to the bet longer while laying it back on here with no risk of losing that money if it is a non runner. The bookies are actually making the arber situation worse which in turn will lead to them wanting to restrict everyone even more due to the volume of arbers out there.

Punters who try to use skill taking a view in picking the winner (the traditional reason for having a bet)  are being affected by this as i am finding now by falling within these restrictions caused by arbers and ironically the bookies themselves by introducing antepost nrnb.
Report impossible123 March 8, 2018 9:15 AM GMT
I firmly believe every bookie in the UK ought to be asked to re-apply for a betting and gaming licence to operate especially those with premises in the high street. I think they need to show they are operating under the licence they've been issued and subject to the revised terms and conditions.
Report eric_morris March 8, 2018 9:19 AM GMT
The only logical conclusion to antepost nrnb is extremely low nrnb prices in coming years to shut out the arbers.

The antepost nrnb prices will be squeezed year on year as bookies realise nobody is taking a risk picking the winner anymore which has a high chance of losing which in turn has increased bookie profits in the past.

Bookies need to recognise those accounts that dont arb and remove restrictions or they will end up with an army of arbers who arent willing to take risk and provide no source of profit for them long term.
Report maelduin March 8, 2018 3:17 PM GMT
The only logical conclusion to antepost nrnb is extremely low nrnb prices in coming years to shut out the arbers.

They will just introduce the NRNB concession earlier, which is what they have been doing. This forces the traders to pick horses on early season form. The r/r is getting worse every year for the traders.

If you take a view and have a lump on a single or multiple (especially without nrnb) you are taking a view on a horse and carry that risk until the day. It takes skill in picking winners to make a profit.

Traders don't just pick random horses. They still take a view on a horse based on form. The only difference between a punter and a trader is how they manage risk. All of this requires skill.
Report eric_morris March 8, 2018 3:20 PM GMT
I dont agree the arbers/traders pick a horse based on form. Most the time they are actively looking for an arb to lock in a profit or for a free bet.
They dont have a lump on without nrnb because they are not confident in their own judgement.
Report maelduin March 8, 2018 3:45 PM GMT
They dont have a lump on without nrnb because they are not confident in their own judgement.

You can't trade horses if you're not confident in your ability to judge a horses potential. When will you get it through your head that trading is a strategy and is all about risk management. Just because you don't take on all the risk doesn't mean you are somehow less skillful in picking winners.

This notion that a trader just backs a random horse NRNB and then just sits around and waits for an arb opportunity to lock in a profit/free bet is ridiculous.
Report eric_morris March 8, 2018 4:06 PM GMT
It does mean you are less confident backing winners as traders/arbers are looking to lay off as soon as possible. That is giving away profit, simple maths. The trade is their safety net.

It isnt like the stock exchange where a company is traded for decades with the traders cutting profits. Races are quick events by comparison which is why they are arbers rather than traders. They have an end result which is the result of the race for which they have arbed a free bet.

Punters placing bigger stakes knowing they cant lay it all back here are looking for and backing winners. Arbers first priority is being able to lay off, it is not to back the winner. They dont have the b@lls for that. They will take a price they can arb regardless of whether it is the horse they fancy most to win the race. They may not back the horse they fancy most if it isnt an arb. No skill mate.
Report eric_morris March 8, 2018 4:25 PM GMT
Straight Arber

1. Look on betfair to see who is asking for a bet at a price lower on here for a horse than at selected bookies.
2. Try to get the stake being asked for on betfair on with bookie at bigger price than on here.
3. Lay off your bookie bet on here asap in case of non runners locking in a profit or a free bet.
4. Hope the horse wins if you have a free bet. Ideally it is the horse you fancy the most.
5. Repeat process on same race as often as possible.
6. Have steaks restricted at bookies.

Punter

1. Use skill to choose a horse you think will win an antepost race well in advance for best value and have good bet if value good. Laying off is not a consideration when you place the bet you have to keep the nr risk until after the race or until liquidity on the day.
2. Take another horse if there is an outstanding challenger appears on the scene again carrying the risk to the day.
3. The horse(s) is the one you fancy the most you live and die by skill on choosing winners after carrying risk for a long time.
4. Wait for another performance on another race that impresses you then repeat process.
5. Dont have steaks restricted as you are a punter with skill (or not if you lose) carrying risk for your prices and bookies have a fair shot at beating you.
Report eric_morris March 8, 2018 4:28 PM GMT
Admittedly there are some in between the two types but the steak they place at the bookies is still likely to be strongly affected by how much they think they can lay back in a reasonable amount of time on here.
Report maelduin March 8, 2018 4:38 PM GMT
It isnt like the stock exchange where a company is traded for decades with the traders cutting profits.

Actually it is. Some of the savviest traders on Wall Street use options to hedge against their positions. It's part of their risk management. No competent trader is ever holding a naked position. Options are their safety net as you call it and 99/100 they expire worthless. 

They dont have the b@lls for that

Yes, making money is all about who has the biggest balls. Laugh

You can have the last say. I'm out. GL.
Report eric_morris March 8, 2018 4:38 PM GMT
Lets just call them Arbing Punters
Report GAZO March 8, 2018 6:42 PM GMT
if they make a profit doing what they do thats a skill,just get a feeling somebody wants to be classed as cleverer than somebody else
Report eric_morris March 8, 2018 6:50 PM GMT
No somebody wants to get on instead of being affected by arbers causing blanket restrictions.
Report Desmond Orchard March 8, 2018 6:52 PM GMT
Of course it’s a skill, ultimately you need to pick the horses that are going to shorten, other wise you’re left holding the position.
NRNB doesn’t make that any easier as, as Eric has pointed out, those prices tend to be 40% less that what is available without the insurance - which price do you think the arber wants? NRNB is pretty much a representation of what the bookie thinks will be the horses price should it get to the race, not much room for arbing there, as the exchange price is usually bigger.
It can work when playing NRNB on horses ‘secondary’ targets, but that’s about it and frankly if the likes of 3b6e5t are going to push a Samcro at 14/1, they deserve everything they get.
By the by, I don’t arb horses, never have. But I do lay them and having arbers in the market means more liquidity.
Report charwell. March 8, 2018 11:19 PM GMT
Nobody likes filthy arbers. They ruin it for proper punters. Close their accounts down the yellow belly cowards.
Report Magic__Daps March 9, 2018 2:35 PM GMT
Arbers - PMSL.

For starters there is no liquidity to arb, secondly where are all the shorter prices to lay on here up to the books prices, thirdly thousands of punters cannot more than 20 quid on. My last Lads account was restricted to WIN a whole fiver, and this was after having a huge 6 bets with them. I have never arbed in my life, but if you take an advertised price that is shortened you are a goner and that is their business model. They do not have compilers to take on the punters, they have accountants who are clueless and haven't a clue regarding the true price of a horse.
Report sewter lives again March 9, 2018 2:46 PM GMT
Hugh must have a great time cant lose
Report blueton March 9, 2018 2:56 PM GMT
cluess charwell spouting crap again..give us a winner smart ars
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