What do you all make of the Champion Hurdle entries?

Apples Jade could be a contender but that would require plenty of give in the ground .

John Constable will be much better if the ground improves by mid March and is a solid e/w player.

I've done John Constable in the w/o Buveur Dair market, I think I may go in again, 33/1 is crazy!

Reading comments on various threads on here, i get the impression that people are not rating BD that high, or at least not as highly as i do.
Really do not understand why to be honest.
I cant find a fault with him as a Champion Hurdler.
Jumps well,travels well,stays well and a real turn of foot.
Basically has everything one would want for a Champion Hurdler.

It doesn't help him that he's around at a time where the opposition is dire, he's god/solid and is enough currently to see him get the job done, I don't think he has a real turn of foot that is the signiature of a top 2 mile hurdler.

Look at his Supreme, the pace quickened and he was caught out and stayed on up the hill but was beaten by two better horses, it was no surprise that he was sent chasing but as the CH scene fell apart was brought back to win a shocking renewal, since then he's simply had to go through the motions against (for the grade) poor opposition.

For me, he's lucky that he's around now, if he was around 4 years ago, he'd be The New One, he'd be a staying on 3rd/4th against faster classier horses.

Just my opinion.

good/solid ...not god/solid, that was definitely not a Freudian slip

Sure Duffy you have your opinion,fair enough of course.

Personally I would not use the supreme as a way of saying BD is not a top Champion Hurdler.
Altior and Min could well simply be better horses,they certainly were in that supreme anyway. Now they are the two top 2m chasers around,and probably would have won a Champion Hurdle or two between them had they stayed hurdling. Also a novice hurdler is exactly that, a novice, and they tend to improve as they get a bit older and more experienced.
Absolutely agree the opposition aint good,but that's not the fault of BD. When I watch him i see everything needed to be a top Champion Hurdler,i think he is one.
As for The New One,i would be confident that BD would have cruised past him four years ago, but of course that can only be an opinion.

I agree that he is a stone or more ahead of anything else around in the 2 mile hurdle division (Samcro excepted perhaps) but I just thought he had to be ridden quite hard to get away from John Constable and Nicky as good as admitted that he was not fully fit by saying he might need a racecourse gallop before Cheltenham as he can put on weight very easily.

Well the jockey was asleep and he put the horse to sleep as well.
They nearly got caught napping yes,but that was all it was.
He could have won by any margin the jockey wanted, but tried to give him as easy race as possible.

I didn't mean the last 100 yards, I meant when he was first asked to go away from John Constable in the straight. For a few strides I thought he was going to struggle to win at all.

Fair enough,i never saw anything to cause concern.

its prob due to the race/ride given but he did not look unbeatable.

its prob due to the race/ride given but he did not look unbeatable.

Did to me...on the day that is.

RPR about 10lb behind his CH run but that is fair enough in a prep race I suppose. He still needs to get back to nearer his best to justify his price.

Fair enough in a race where he did not need to do much.
If this trainer don't have him peaked in March I will be very surprised!!

A shockingly bad renewal is on the cards. What a shame for the great race.
Whether there is a reason or not I don't know; probably just one of those phases. But the Gold Cup also looks well below par, as does the Stayers and, unusually, the Queen Mother just could be the best of the lot in terms in quality in depth, which I've never known before. But only if Altior, Douvan, Min, Fox Norton and Politologue turn up, which must be odds against.
NH racing can turn around very quickly from occasional slumps but I'd have to say its been a long time since genuinely top class horses have been in such short supply.
Maybe this year's novices, headed by Samcro, can usher in a new era; we certainly need one.

Last year without Faugheen, and this year's CH are poor renewals and I believe the prize money ought to be reduced accordingly. Without a shadow of doubt this is an extremely poor renewal regardless of the skinny price of the market leader BD. But for Altior being in the same stable as the fav BD similarly Min same stable and ownership of Faugheen, either and possibly both would be targeting this race again, I'd imagine, but they won't.

May Wylie could show some "leadership" quality and dispatch Yorkhill this way or bypass Cheltenham altogether and wait for the Punchestown Festival,...yes, another minor end-of-season races for the benefit of stables/owners but not punters.

To suggest the prize money should be reduced is complete and utter BS. Imagine you walk in to work tomorrow and your boss says "Good morning Mr i123 we are reducing your wages this year because all your competition are perceived to be under performing". NJH should be commended for having the stars of the show this year - BVD, Altior and Might Bite. Go Nicky !!!!

I'd rate BD as a 1* winner of the CH out of 5* even if he wins 2 CH post Mar 2018.

Reduce prize money??!!!


Altior and Min are both chasers, so aint gonna run in the Churdle,but even if they did all it would mean is that the QM would diminish in quality.....rob peter to pay paul.
Yorkhill aint gonna make any difference the way hes running!!

You really dont like BD do you imp.
Anyone would think its his fault with the lack of quality around

You seem to be coming out with a load of rubbish at the moment Imp......any reason why?

This Cheltenham forum is suffering the same malaise as the top races at the festival, fewer posters about it seems this year....where's STS to ffs, I used to like listening to him telling us that he's backed the field that would still guarantee an around the world holiday

All those having a pop at Buveur Dair........do you realise his time when winning was exactly the same time as Faugheen's?
And hes a machine.....apparently.
Both races on similar ground and both horses ridden out to the line.

Just watched both races,and hard to tell which was more impressive to be honest.

Yes Duffy,quietest forum for years.

I think any serious follower of National Hunt Racing esp the CH will no doubt agrees this year's and last renewals of the race were sub-standard as the firm fav has been beaten by two others presently running in another discipline for fairly similar reasons.

I hope Yorkhill would show up here or miss the Festival altogether maybe then my staunch opinion of the fav and race would be vindicated; the CH with its present participants is akin to the Mares Hurdle ie Apple's Jade.

Ok,has to be a wind up.

I'm comparing BD with other CH winners on info and without any prejudice.

I had a bigger bet on BD than Altior in the Supreme but he was outpaced when Altior and Min quickened 2 out. Also, BD just managed to beat Petit Mouchoir in the following race again over 2m race but was impressive when beating My Tent Or Yours in the Aintree Hurdle.

As I've said previously my money will be on Yorkhill (even him) or Min should either turn up.

So basically its all about his novice season.
Good job we did not judge Sprinter Sacre that way, and i imagine plenty more.
We would look stupid.
And so what that he got beat by Altior and Min,most horses have that they have run against.They are now the top 2m chasers around.
Dont mean he aint a good Champion Hurdler.
I am afraid your argument does not stand up.
Unless horses are not allowed to improve out of novice season.

If you are backing Yorkhill, with your own money,bl00dy good luck!!!

Really can't see any way BD loses unless he falls, which I of course hope doesn't happen.

Well its horse racing BF,anything can happen,but yes on all known form hes probably the biggest certainty of the week,as the odds suggest.
I just hope people keep underestimating him,nice odds early season.

Regardless of the outcome of my bets I do not wish to see fallers and injuries arising from the Festival or any horse race.

BD will win the CH in the present field barring any mishap, but he is lucky his two conquerors are running in a different discipline. Unless he's beaten either or both post novice season in any discipline one cannot say that he's improved more than them and a better horse than either or both.

Like I said many times before horse racing is mainly opinions, and I'm prepared to back my opinions and judgements with my own money should they meet.

Feb 5, 2018 -- 6:14PM, impossible123 wrote:

I'm comparing BD with other CH winners on info and without any prejudice. I had a bigger bet on BD than Altior in the Supreme but he was outpaced when Altior and Min quickened 2 out. Also, BD just managed to beat Petit Mouchoir in the following race again over 2m race but was impressive when beating My Tent Or Yours in the Aintree Hurdle.As I've said previously my money will be on Yorkhill (even him) or Min should either turn up.

Utter bowlarks, budd's already pointed out that BD recorded exactly the same time as Faugheen and you've completely ignored that info - BD beat MTOY last year exactly the same distance as Annie Power did (with the aid of her mare's allowance) the year before - there is little or no evidence to suggest MTOY regressed between the two renewals.

Your prejudice is clearly that you have n't forgiven him for being beaten in the Supreme two years ago with no consideration given to the fact that:

a) the two who beat him are both pretty darn good or
b) he might, just might, have improved significantly since then.

I've moved your post from 'laughable' to 'borderline criminal' in the appropriate corner of my mind... (with a duplicate copy in 'wind up')

Where has anyone said BD is a better horse than Min and/or Altior?,and where has anyone said BD has improved more than them??
As i said before they may simply be better than BD,after all they beat him in the Supreme and are currently the best 2m chasers around.
As i said also,none of this makes BD not a good Champion Hurdler.

BD is a very short price fav. Next in the betting is Faugheen who is in decline follow by My Tent Or Yours (over-rans), Yorkhill (entered but not a confirmed runner) and Melon (exposed); Apple's Jade follows but another unlikely runner with the rest merely making up the numbers. That's it!

With the above, and the absence of any horse of the potential of either Altior or Min one can confidently concur the present CH participants are pants. But BD will be the most likely winner amongst a poor lot, period.

None of that has any bearing on how good BD is.

Anyway,this is a waste of my time.

Budd, Duffy, totally agree, like a ghost town compared to what it used to be.

I genuinely believe that the constant rubbish spouted by one poster in particular has scared a good number away. There isn't a topic on the Cheltenham Forum, that he can't pollute with his vague, safe, and completely irrelevant drivel. He is bloody everywhere, and he hasn't made one sensible post in the 2 and a half years he's been here.

He's either a very lonely Troll, or someone who just doesn't have a clue, but desperately wants to join in.

budd - it took you way too long to realise you were wasting your time on this topic........... :-)

yes Billy,it did that.

Yeh,its a real shame Fab,used to have some good ol chats/debates on here,bit few and far beteween now.

Think the BD and Samcro double is a license to print money

I'd say put Footpad in there too but just can't be as certain because Petit M wasn't given a touch race LTO and still wasn't beaten far - horse clearly not 100% fit for than run either - I mean Footpad will more than likely win, but those doubts are just enough to stop me being 'certain' it'll win.

*Petit M wasn't given a TOUGH race LTO

and sorry for going offtopic!

Would not worry about that......A welcome sidetrack my friend

I had a bit on the sly bet special BD Footpad and Samcro to win any festival race 6-1 treble.

how much you get on that Castillo?? Very nice!

Yeh I looked at that offer,but bottled it,bound to be one that lets me down I thought.
They all do look good things though.
Footpad would be the one I would be most concerned about if I had bet.

I was allowed a tenner so no great funds either way but figured it gave me an interest in how BD goes in the champion hurdle.
I have played this race by looking for place chances.
I think BD could be beaten but it would be down to him being off form not another being better.

Seems to be plenty of posts on this thread. The horse racing forum is the one that has lost many posters recently. I had to start a "today" post yesterday as noboby else had done so and that was after the first race had been run!

crazy quiet on most forums.
used to be hundreds people on racing.

crazy quiet on most forums.
used to be hundreds people on racing.

Survival of the fittest guys....or daftest!!, not sure which

All gone purple?

Castillo a tenners still better than what I've got on (£0) haha, agree with budd that Footpad the least 'certain' to win purely because of the different ground/field size/pace in the Arkle but I still wouldn't back against that one so good luck :D

Cheer big it will give me an interest so prob stop me betting more on the race.

Plans are in place to give Buveur D'Air, who registered back-to-back victories in the Contenders Hurdle at Sandown on Saturday, a racecourse gallop ahead of the defence of his title at Prestbury Park on March 13.

Henderson said: "I could have done with a little bit of a harder race really. It would have been better to push him out instead of pulling him up, but it was fine and exactly what we wanted and I'm not complaining.

"He is a horse that needs plenty of work. Barry (Geraghty) said he was still taking blows. He will go to a racecourse for a gallop, but he won't go to Newbury this weekend. I wouldn't mind going somewhere on grass rather than on the all weather because he loves that soft ground.

"If there was somewhere I could gallop around grass in two weeks time, I would like to do that. He will go to a racecourse for a gallop, there is no doubt about that.

"Whereas I could go to Cheltenham with Altior or Might Bite without a run, I couldn't go there without him having a run. He hasn't had a race as such this season and that is the worry. He is a brute and you have to fire work into him. You have got to really be on top of him."

Kempton in 2 weeks time please Nicky, I will be there and would be a nice bonus to see him.

Declare Samcro and lets have a proper race at Cheltenham.

Send him up to the Morebattle Hurdle, he's done that before with CH hopes.

send him to Chelmsford for a 1m2f handicap that's what we all want to see!!

On a Tuesday night at 21:15?!

sounds perfect!!!

To knock Buveur Dair is churlish in the extreme.

He struck me as a very high class horse prior to his 3rd in the Supreme (when he was still very inexperienced at that point and stormed home up the hill after fluffing his lines 2 out).

I think he has improved again since then and it's not his fault nobody can serve it up to him. Admittedly, it would be nice to see a realistic challenger; but we are looking at it from a punting perspective as his odds are unbackable - but there is nothing else realistically to live with him.

History will show, like Istabraq etc, he was simply too good and fondly remembered by this current generation of race fans.

Very well put I would say.

Only 4ish horses less than 40's on here, quite possibly one or two of those won't run.

Leaves BD, F & MTOY to be first 3, what else realistically?

Perhaps 8 or 9 runners tops.

Defi might make a miraculous recovery and give JP the first three.

Has Elliott confirmed Apples Jade is nailed for the Mares? See there’s an entry for this (as well as Stayers) & wondering whether they might just give it a crack given the field this year?

Elliott has confirmed mares. A winner at Cheltenham is what he looks out for

O'Leary said that he has no interest in trying to win the stayers with her.

I don't think Gigginstown will want to finish placed in this race when they have a far more realistic chance of victory elsewhere.....whether that be Apples or Samcro!!

This race is pretty straightforward really,the only ? to me is whether Faugheen..... or Melon maybe? can improve on what we have seen last two races.
If not it is very straightforward.

Thanks gents. When you look at the entries for how this race will pan out it could end up being a field of 8-9 runners on the day. The more I think about it, I could end up having the same biggest bet I had at last year's Festival in MTOY to be placed at around 3/1. That to me is more value than backing a 4/6 fav as one of the bankers of the meeting. Despite the fact he's an 11 year old now, with this year's renewal being the poorest one I can remember, I simply can't see him out of the frame... if you look at the market for this race: Buveur D'Air (4/9) should win easily, behind him Faugheen (6/1) needs to find about a stone on his last run to win (possible although unlikely), MTOY (12/1), Yorkhill (NR surely), Melon (20/1) - held by Faugheen and the others ahead of him in market, Min (NR), Apples Jade (NR as ppl have confirmed on here!), The New One (NR), then you're at the Ch'Tibello/Mick Jazz's of the hurdling scene who imo are a defined league below. The only other possibility I could see of an upset to MTOY not being placed is Defi Du Seuil bouncing back and showing some of his promise last season and making the frame. It could even be a McManus 1,2,3 come to think of it. If it ends up 8/9 runners then MTOY in the first 3 and indeed the market w/o Buveur at around 5/1 currently makes a lot of appeal. Any other year I'd be against backing an 11 year old in this, but this isn't any other year. I can't imagine the prices on the day once all of the NRs have pulled out will be 12/1 on him.

MTOY 13/2 without the fav on B365 if you fancy a 5th festival second place.

Personally I wouldn't be looking at the place market at this time, too many inponderables, you've got one spot taken by the fav. to start with, Defi could get a place on better ground, who knows, Yorkhill could turn up here and do absolutely anything!!, melon easily has a place run in him, Plus in MTOY'S, you are going to be backing a horse that throretically is going to be actually racing to win, which may cost him late on.

I'd much rather in these instances support something where I think connections are pragmatically going to keep their horse out of the heat and try and pick up a place running past horses that have run their race.

If he belonged to me, I would ride MTOY for second unless Buveur had already fallen.

the w/o fave market sounds like it might be popular nearer the day.

think ive overdone it on chtibelo so gonna cash some out :-(

With lots likely to be dropping out, how many runners go to post do we reckon?

Ok lets have ago.....
BD
Faugheen
Tent
Melon
Defi
Chitibello
Mick Jazz
John Constable
Think they are likely runners,not so sure about any others.

just took 14-1 0n native river altior double boost.
regret it already lol.

With the benefit of hindsight I bet they went to Cheltenham with Faugheen fresh in the hope he produced his first run of the season. The desperation to see him on the track again to try and find out what they had may well have scuppered them.

A few out after yesterday.

About to commit the ultimate faux pas in playing Willie Mullins bingo. However Im failing to see how Min 12-1 isn't a phenomenal bet to nothing.  99% chance you will get your cash back in 4 weeks time.  But if the reports are to be believed with how well Douvan is doing, it would hardly be surprising to see Ricci/Mullins duck clashing Min and Douvan together in the QM. Un De Sceaux wont move from the Ryan Air. That leaves either the Gold Cup or Champion Hurdle with either Min or Douvan, which ever doesn't run in the QM.

I seem to remember Min beating Buever D'air in that Supreme too. Like I say, I fully expect to get my 2 pence back in 4 weeks time. But come that Tuesday Morning with Ruby chalked up, he certainly isn't 12-1. I've gladly just taken some of the 100.00s on here for the Champion also.

Not vastly different to punting Vautour for the RyanAir a few years ago when were lead to believe that the Gold Cup was the aim. NRNB usually see's prices cut ridiculously, however IMO 12-1 is more than fair enough to carry the burden of my money for a month.

No idea what the plan is now with Douvan, as he is now a non runner tomorrow.
I would imagine that leaves Min as the number one 2 mile chaser though.
But like you say, you get your money back anyway.

Ricci has Faugheen in the CH so it wouldn't make any sense to take him on in order to avoid Douvan. UDS has a different owner so I'd expect either Min or Douvan to run in the Ryanair.

My guess is that this will be Douvan as it would be a huge ask to take on Altior not having run for a year.

It depends if they think they're getting him hard fit at home and ready to run at 100%. If they are satisfied they've ticked those boxes then it isn't such a stretch because he's a better horse than Altior.

Douvan, a better horse than Altior? I wouldn't be confident about that as both had beaten Foxton Norton comprehensively over 2m. However, should Douvan turn up at Cheltenham and do battle with Altior my money will be on Altior given the issues concerning Douvan this season; I'd not back Douvan in the Ryanair either.

"If" Douvan comes back the same horse as he was at his best, which is a big ask, he is unquestionably better than Altior IMO.

Imo its hard to say for sure which is the better of the two if both at their best.
I suspect we will never know.

Altior beat two good horses in the Supreme and one of them is the present Champion Hurdle winner. On the other hand Douvan beat  Shaneshill who clearly is not a 2 miler; he also beat Sizing John who again is not a 2 miler either. Thus, I do have reservation that Douvan is the better of the two 2 milers even on his best form.

Let's hope Douvan makes it and do battle with Altior.

A fully fit Douvan v Altior is a question I've pondered. I don't see how you can be particularly confident either way. They've beaten everything with ease when fully fit.

Although Douvan wins aesthetically.

Douvan is now nine and i would think he has already peaked,if thats the case then we will never know cos they have not raced against each other. The formbook is inconclusive.
Of course were they to meet and Douvan won,then we would know,but that imo is unlikely.
If Altior won,then the ? would arise about Douvan being at his best.

You’ve got to hand it to Imp, he’s consistent in his use of the SNH as a guide to how good a horse is.
We are now going back 3 years to a novice hurdle, to judge how good multiple G1 winning chaser Douvan is!
I wonder how he squares these two arguments: BD is gash as Altior beat him in a Supreme V Altior is better than Douvan as he beat BD - the ‘reigning champion hurdler’ no less - in a Supreme?
The gift that keeps giving.......

He's a f'cking idiot Des, he's bloody ruined this forum. He's clearly a troll, doesn't understand a thing about the game, but has a view on everything. Constantly caught out for talking boolsh1t about his bets as well.

To top it off, he uses the line "racing is a game of opinions".  Anyone who uses "is a game of opinions" for any topic is guaranteed to be a f'cking cretin.

Let's hope Douvan gets to the festival, setting aside what "actually" happens in the race for a moment, the build up would get that much needed shot in the arm wouldn't it?

Absolutely Duffy, although regardless of how the market sees the field, I don’t have too much trouble getting excited about the best 2m chase of the season.
And it’s important to remember that neither Altior nor Douvan has won a QMCC yet and both have had problems. So before we start eulogising them too much, lets have one of them win the actual race.

Absolutely agree,would be great for the build up if he stays a runner.
And would make the race more intriguing if he turns up on the day.

Yes Des, would be rather ironic if neither won.

Feb 17, 2018 -- 1:01PM, duffy wrote:

Let's hope Douvan gets to the festival, setting aside what "actually" happens in the race for a moment, the build up would get that much needed shot in the arm wouldn't it?

Aesthetically...in horse racing? I've always thought that can only be done by its jockey eg winning cosily and cheekingly.

You've highlighted the wrong comment but anyway, forget the jockey, the movement of the horse is what I'm on about, some are better to watch than others, Douvan, Kauto Vautour, those types are/were all beautiful on the eye.

And Waiting Patiently

duffy, believe it or not I did not highlight anything - I cannot cut and paste; I do not know how that happened.