Douvan

waiting game on this one

Good,would be a shame if we had Altior turning up in March at 1/6.
The 2m division needs more competiveness.

@RacingPost- Contrary to some rumours on Twitter, Willie Mullins reports that all is fine with Douvan

Stop worrying....Get back to work JB

If Mullins says everything is ok then he is sure to be retired (nap).

Ruby Walsh was on ITV racing just a day or so ago saying how he was in great form.

OK. God truth. I will never ever back another Mullins Horse Ante-post ever again. Willie is the least trust worthy trainer on the planet. He is the anti-Christ of Ante Post betting. Such a d1ckhead.

https://www.racingpost.com/news/news/douvan-to-miss-rest-of-the-season/312696?utm_source=Twitter&utm_medium=Social&utm_campaign=Sunday%20News&utm_content=Douvan

http://www.skysports.com/racing/news/12426/11023807/willie-mullins-upbeat-over-douvan-condition

Enough said...........never ever trust Willie., he couldn't  give a  **** about punters. Only cares about owners. Never to be trusted.

You must be either blind or stupid to not know Mullins is now the biggest **** in the game.....
An utter liar, and a cheat.

Using the tragic events of Saturday as a back up in your argument? Is there anything Mullins disciples wont stoop to to defend their hero??
Pretty poor show imo.
Oh and by the way the horse's name is Starchitect.

Buddeliea, I used starchitect as an example because there appears to be very little sympathy or understanding on this forum for sick or injured horses, yet when one dies tragically on live TV then some of these same people get too emotional to even hear any mention of the subject.

Having grown up surrounded by horses I do understand how fragile they are, how they can be fine one day and not so fine the next. Racehorses are equine professional athletes and injuries are part and parcel of any training yard. Mostly,if a horse is not 100% right and you've established that nothing obvious is broken,then a few days standing in or very light exercise will see them come right. If not then further investigation is necessary.

That's how it has worked for centuries, yet since the arrival of the exchanges and social media a mere wet week ago we now have idiots everywhere who assume that there's something sinister behind every high profile horse that's reported sick or injured. The trainers with the most high profile horses,Tizzard, Henderson and particularly Mullins, get serious unfair stick on here.If you go into any big yard with 150-200 horses in training you will find probably 30-40 of them on the easy list at any given time. Trainers have to put the same work and thought into their low grade handicappers as their stars.

Yet they are on a hiding to nothing when it comes to public announcements about sidelined horses. If they say they are happy with progress so far and the horse subsequently gets a further setback then he really must have known that all along and laid it. If he says he's not happy with a horse's progress and he subsequently gets entered then he knew this all along and backed it. If he says nothing at all then people want to know what he's hiding.I do know one thing for certain about Mullins - he has no interest in betting.Zero interest,and that's a fact.

A trainer's job is to prep horses for the racecourse. His integrity should be measured on how those horses perform once they have been declared to run. It is only at that point that it becomes our business.

To me, the narrative around Douvan just suggests that the problem has come to light following the increased intensity in his work to get him ready to run in a Grade One.

They were n't obliged to rule him out for the season at this point either - could have strung it out until February in the hope that he comes right.

If you don't trust/believe Mullins then just don't back any of his horses antepost - seems quite simple to me.

Very observant, 'irishone'? Have you told his trainer? He could train the horse to jump a different way as long as it is not similar to Yorkhill's.

Will we ever see him competitively on a racecourse next season, if at all?

ftv
I would like to think we all understand the fragility of horses and you make some fair points.

Still don't think what happened with Starchitect should have been used in this instance though.


A trainer's job is to prep horses for the racecourse. His integrity should be measured on how those horses perform once they have been declared to run. It is only at that point that it becomes our business.

Very true, but the problem with that is,he and his main owner have been known to choose to inform us of running plans and then change at the last minute(Vautour Ryanair/Gold Cup fiasco an example)and that don't help when it comes to integrity,not in my eyes anyway..

Have I suggested that the integrity of the sport has not been questioned with other connections?
This is a Douvan thread that has involved his connections.
Nothing to do with other trainers.
If you want to talk about the integrity of other trainers/connections then maybe you should start a seperate thread.

Superbly put.

The vilification of trainers is almost always ignorant and based upon the weird presumption that people who spend their lives working with horses are actually Machiavellian characters scheming away, putting one over innocent punters as they take pleasure in deceiving the public upon whose support the whole enterprise basically relies.

Mullins is in an impossible position and he squirms noticeably when someone like Matt Chapman chisels away for his plans.

For trainers of strings of horses who may be Cheltenham bound, the last thing on their mind is which race to run them in, at least until the Festivals hones into view and they assess which of their horses are sound and in-form, what the opposition might look like and, much nearer the day, what conditions might be. For those like Mullins, whose owners also have options with other trainers, the picture is murkier still.

The thought that they should know where they're going and have any sort of responsibility to punters to inform them (and then be vilified should they change their mind) is just nonsensical.

Stating bookmaker owned horses are going for a race which is not backed up by stable activity on here taking innocent punters money is bringing racing into disrepute. Insider trading is not an accepted antepost practice it never will be. Apologists are idiots.

The announcement re Vautour(bless him)was made during festival week at the final decs for Ryanair.

I don't care how much Ricci apologised,he should never have said something he did not know was true,not in this game when peoples money could be affected by what he states as fact.
Its this sort of thing that annoys people and fuels ammunition for those that feel that all is not above board with the yard,or people close enough to the yard that can use information to affect betting patterns,which has occurred.

I for one wish owners were never asked about running plans,and if they are asked,to simply say.....that's up to the trainer and leave it at that.
I understand trainers being asked,but I wish they would just say....... when we know you will know and leave it at that.
We all know what options horses have at the festival anyway,and what price they are in the build up to the festival,so we can then form an opinion as to what we think they will run in,look at prices and then make a decision whether to punt or not.....that's antepost,and some you may get right and others you may not.I can take that on the chin if it goes against me,its my thoughts that have got me there.
However,if I backed a horse on the strength of what someone close to that horse had said,and that horse ran in a different race,then I would not be happy,and would think long and hard before trusting that person again.

Anyway, I'm exhausted with this subject now,everyone on here knows my thoughts,and I doubt anyone cares!!!

Eric, I believe I have only had 2 debates with you - this one where you whinge and moan about ante-post non runners,and the other was on the finian's oscar thread where we had a different opinion about speeds at different distances. I don't look for arguments but if someone is writing a lot of unreasonable rubbish I sometimes do get involved.

Budd, lets face it it's pretty obvious you are calling him a cheat for years even if you havn't used the specific word. A person of low integrity? We're not in a court room. Your name is "Buddeliea" - its safe to come out.

It's when you say "I don't care how much Ricci apologised,he should never have said something he did not know was true." What more do you want-blood? We all make mistakes. None of us are perfect.This happened almost 2 years ago and you are still obsessed by it.You even admit to being exhausted by the subject yet you just won't let it go.

Cyclops echoes my thoughts exactly and I would like to think the majority of racing fans understand the increasing pressure being put upon trainers.

Yes, second-guessing Willie Mullins is an impossible task but we know that for years. Its just his personality as much as anything. He thinks outside the box. He sees things that others don't which in ways makes him such a great trainer.You can only tip your hat to him as to how those bizarre switches have got such incredible results.