vroom vroom mag - Gold Cup ?

Vroum Vroum Mag is entered in the Gold Cup, the Queen Mum Champion Chase and the Ryanair. It is believed she will also be entered in the Champion Hurdle, Stayers Hurdle and Mares Hurdle. See if you can get a price for her to win the boat race.

She only just got home after 3m last time out, so I think the extra 2f in the Gold Cup would be a bridge too far stamina wise. Has the ability though, you would think.

Hoping she runs in the stayers from my personal betting point of view.

I'd personally be surprised if they decide to mess her about even more by changing codes mid way through the season.

I think its fairly clear that in a perfect world Faugheen goes for the CH, Annie for the Mares and VVM for the Stayers. Having Limini means its even more likely VVM stays in the World Hurdle to my eyes. Should Faugheen or Annie not make it then they can shuffle their pack... if it is Faugheen, Annie heads for the CH and they can rely on Limini alone in the Mares.

The gold cup is the biggest prize, and the one that eludes Willie.
It's a tall order to believe Djakadam can win, so is it possible that VVM could win a gold cup?
Personally, I can't see anything getting close to Thistlecrack, but any additions to the race would make it interesting.

It is indeed... but surely it would be nigh on impossible for a horse to win it having being campaigned like this? She hasn't run over fences for over a year.

didn't they say she would be a grand national horse one day.
This appears to be a very versatile beast.

Ruby will want to ride her in the stayers and Djak in the Gold Cup, what Ruby wants, he gets.

Thre has been sudden interest in VVM for this race. Without doubt VVM s the most credible sub for Djakadam in the Gold Cup - unlikely RR will have two in the same race - leaving Djakadam available for the Ryanair with Shaneshill (Wylie) the sole rep in the Stayers.

The question is will VVM be good enough? I think very unlikely on given form, however, Djakadam will have an excellent chance in the Ryanair though.

like a lot of punters, I received burn't fingers from wanted Ruby wanted last year, and who is to say Vautour would not have won the Gold Cup ?

Walsh wanted to ride Djakadam in the Gold Cup last year and got what he wanted. I'd back Vautor against nearly any horse in training over any trip and agree he would've won, despite possibly being not quite right.

bet way and bet victor both shortened the price, not by much, but there is some interest it appears.

Paddy Power only 16's, not taking any chances.
Don't you just love all the speculation at this time of year.

Vautour wouldn't have stayed the GC trip. Ruby would have ridden Djakadam anyway and Vautour would have been third string of WPMs and a big price on the day.

I think unless Limini does something exceptional between now and the festival, she will be the yard's second string for the mares. They wont rely on her alone.

He stayed ok in king george, especially when you add in all the lengths he lost jumping to the left.
Anyway, let's not dig that one up again.

Staying ok in a KG is light years away from staying the extra nearly 3 furlongs of a GC. All irrelevant now though

It might be that people are backing VVM with the NRNB firms (PP, Bet365) and that has caused a slight shortening that is being followed (or exploited by less scrupulous bookies).

some very imaginative people on here...all things being equal vvm will go in the stayers..annie mares  faugheen ch  djackdam gc

just looking through the history, the horse has never started odds against since leaving France.
I can't see why the horse switched back to hurdles, when she was performing so well over fences.
That said, she has done nothing wrong over hurdles, and Apples Jade is a very good horse.
She would be a fascinating contender for the gold cup.

VVM is an exposed mid 150's rated mare. Wouldn't back her in anything bar the Mares (w/o AP) and even then i'd probably have her behind the 4yo Apples Jade. Brilliantly campaigned by WPM considering.

*5yo

Djakadam is running anywhere other than the Gold Cup. Why would he, he's placed twice in it and is only 7. Should Vroum Vroum switch codes, the only place I can see her rocking up is in the Ryan Air. 2 and a half is her trip.

But she will most probably be Annie's super sub in the mares should she not make it, or Faugheen in the champion should he not.

Just keep it simple and dont try and second guess a trainer who hasnt yet made his first guess.

Djakadam won't run anywhere*

Apologies

Djakadam likely to be placed, but little chance of winning imo.

agree with Ramruma (15:15),kavvie (15:36) and broadly with maeldun (15:47)

Mullins RP column on Saturday included the following quote:

'I know people have been tipping up Djakadam for the Ryanair but he will run in the Gold Cup barring something extraordinary happening between now and then'

The only way VVM runs in the Gold Cup is if (God forbid) something goes wrong with Djakadam and Ricci's monstrous ego demands he has a runner in the race.

She'll have a decent chance in the stayers (though personally I feel she'll find one or two too good in that also).

It's borderline criminal/laughable that she's a shorter price for the Gold Cup than admirable proven staying chasers like Many Clouds and Road To Riches.They might not run either but they're  at least as likely to as she is and probably more so.

She will run in the easy option again , the Mares Hurdle , they are not going to risk her in the Gold Cup.......she hasn't jumped a fence in a race for a very long time.

Where do you think Annie will run then sixrwosix?

so annie and vvm will run in the mares!?!?

Assuming Annie doesn't get a run before Cheltenham then she'll go straight for the Mares. If Faugheen were not to make it there then VVM will run in the Champion Hurdle.

But if Annie were to get a run in the next four weeks, which is most unlikely, then she rather than VVM, would sub for Faugheen if he doesn't show and VVM would run in the Mares.

Whichever way it turns out either Annie or VVM will run in the Mares

given Limini is no longer awol and her stated target is the Mares hurdle, surely that increases the likelihood of VVM runnung in the Stayers Hurdle?

Yes Reaseheath, if Faugheen and Annie get there then VVM will run in the Stayers.

Limini would have to show some proper improvement from last year to win the Mares. Maybe she has improved but as things stand right now she will be back-up to one of the big 2

After last years fiasco with vautour, how can you quote this lot and bet ante post with confidence ?

im sure wpm and rr are taking heed of your plans for their horses and adjusting accordingly!!

Absolutely no chance that VVM will run in the Gold Cup. Didn't look like she wanted 3m the other day in the xmas hurdle, so what makes people think she wants 3m2f over fences is beyond me. Stayers or Ryanair, hopefully the latter

you may be right, I will watch on with interest.

As Maelduin says, she's exposed and she isn't very good (in comparison to the boys).

As far as mares go she is smart, but she's by far the most overrated horse in the Mullins yard. The only race she can win is the Mares hurdle. If she lines up in either the Ryanair or the Stayers at anything close to the current NRNB prices she'll be my lay of the meeting. I'd have thought common sense would be to place Un De Sceaux in the Ryanair, the markets tell you that, and he would have a very live chance going off his Tingle Creek form.

As for VVM in the gold cup, do not be silly.

Where do you think Annie will run then sixrwosix?

If she runs at the Festival ,or even again , I would think it will be the champion hurdle or nowt.

Faugheen has been out for an eternity and the clock is ticking for him to run , he won't be risked in the ultimate 2 mile test without prove of how much ability he has retained will he ?


To be honest I would think it more likely that neither of them will be at the festival , only an opinion.

Satrus_Froot - I disagree. 11 from 12 over hurdles & fences, across 2-3 miles with 3 Grade 1's, so the phrase 'isn't very good' attached to this horse is complete rubbish. When thrown in against the boys she has won 2 out of 3 Grade 1's. Not good in comparison to boys? Ok.  Arguably the most underrated horse in the Willie Mullins yard.

Or ever again?!

I dont understand why people are negative about Annie making the festival. She hasn't run before Christmas since 2013. I think they know what they want to do with her now, and have a defined plan.

Why skip the chance to win another race at the Festival with her? The Mares will be more than sufficient imo.

I agree, she is no Annie Power but mare or no made, she is a genuine Grade 1 horse imo.

If she was off levels, I think she would get would struggle but the mares allowance puts her bang in the mix for most G1's.

Without the mares allowance, MTOY would have become very close to being a Champion Hurdle winner on his first run in two years.

^^^ Sorry the "I agree" bit was to Charlie

Seriously VVM has beaten nothing in the Grade 1's she's won. Some of those races were awful. Positives are she's genuine and always runs her race. Completely overrated by the "AP super sub" brigade. imo.

If you say she is a solid mid 150's (currently 154), with the 7lbs allowance she gets that effectively makes her low 160's.  In the Champion and Stayers hurdles, there are only a small number rated higher than 161 (about 4 in Champion Hurdle) and 1 in the Stayers.

You're right Wellchief but i can't recall the last time a horse won either race running to a mark of 161. Of course that's not to say it won't happen this year. GL.

Jan 18, 2017 -- 1:58PM, charlieptl wrote:

Satrus_Froot - I disagree. 11 from 12 over hurdles & fences, across 2-3 miles with 3 Grade 1's, so the phrase 'isn't very good' attached to this horse is complete rubbish. When thrown in against the boys she has won 2 out of 3 Grade 1's. Not good in comparison to boys? Ok.

As I said, for a mare she is smart. And she is. 9 of those 12 races have been against mares so that isn't form that is worth respecting with regards to a Ryanair or a Stayers tilt.

She's ran well in her 3 open company grade ones in Ireland. But you have to rate Apples Jade highly if you rate VVM highly, and Apples Jade wouldn't be matching it with the boys in a CH or a WH. What's to say VVM would beat Apples Jade in the mares anyway? Considering the latter is open to a lot more improvement and there was nothing between them at Fairyhouse.

The mares allowance would make her semi competitive in a Ryanair or a Stayers, but she would still have to find more, and considering she's exposed I think the only way she could possibly win one of those races is if all the leading players performed below par, which is unlikely.

I remember people suggesting VVM would beat Annie Power after her Ascot run last year. Annie Power at her best would absolutely destroy Vroum Vroum at 16 furlongs, 20 furlongs or 24.

The handicapper says that VVM's last run at Christmas was worth 162 WITH the mares allowance. Where's the extra half a stone coming from to win a Stayers?

I also don't buy into the fact she's just going to breeze up in the Ryanair and jump around one of the toughest jumping tracks in the country without problems. Is she a good jumper of a fence? Yes she is. But if she doesn't have a prep run over fences be very careful. It takes time for horses to get accustomed to the obstacle they will be jumping.

Perfect evidence of this is her ballooning of the hurdles in her Ascot run in January 2016.

Nov 2015 was her last chase. That's a long time.

VVM could be a few pounds better than her rating given her style of racing but I'd agree she'd have it all to do against Jezki and co in a Stayers.

The Mares race would be her best chance of winning but surely thats where Annie will go if they cant get a run into her before Cheltenham.

I agree with you mate. I think with the mares allowance she is a decent low to mid 160's horse, so is fully entitled to be near the top of the stayers market.

If harry turns up in the same form, he'll be hard to beat but I think she is the best of the rest.

I wouldn't put her anywhere near a Gold Cup or Ryanair myself either.

Overall I think she is a good horse that probably gets more attention because of her connections, but she is a solid G1 standard and wouldn't look out of place in most G1 HURDLES races.

if she had different connections and exactly the same form in exactly the same races she would n't even be entered in the Gold Cup because she'd be running in the Mares race and this thread would not exist.

Or the Champion Rease? In a weak year other connections might give it a go.

she's entitled to have an entry in the Champion yes, like Apple's Jade, and if it really cut up who knows.

It's just the Gold Cup stuff I find fanciful...just my opinion.

Totally agree mate. Can't see it in a million years.

stranger things have happened.

She's entered in the 3m Galmoy Hurdle next week @ Gowran Park.

I heard from a bloke, who was sitting in a bar in Kilkenny, that something out of the ordinary is being planned.

That was a humorous remark you understand

That was a humorous remark you understand

To me VVM is a two and a half miler, so on that basis the Mares or Ryanair would give her the best chance of winning a race at the festival.

On a separate note, out of interest,...all those who are saying AP in the Mares, I guess that is because of stable politics? cannot imagine anyone with any sense would actually think a reigning Champion Hurdler should run in the mares the following year??

Connections have chosen the Mares' Hurdle at Doncaster this weekend over 2m, no Stayers then I reckon.

I would n't draw that conclusion personally - WPM had two for the Galmoy today and has Whiteout for the Grade 2 Mares Hurdle in Huntingdon tomorrow - I think VVM going for the 2 mile race is just a function of her much vaunted versatility.

Shaneshill's win today franks the form of VVM's last two races and neither of them were over 2 miles.

Not sure a 2 mile hurdle race is great prep for the Gold Cup though - a bit like Tizzard announcing Thistlecrack is going to run in the Kingwell Hurdle at Wincanton.

I think VVM will deputise for Annie in the Mares. Seems sensible as reigning champ now that Annie won't be going. Especially after a good performance by Shaneshill today and I think he will run a big race in the Stayers Hurdle myself.

Shaneshill doesn't stay 3m though

True.

Only joking impossible.

I think Shaneshill is good place material in the stayers, and its definitely the right race, especially if he can stay on his feet.

He'll probably run into one too good, but you'll get a good run for your money.

Will Willie run him and Nichols in the same race though? I'd have thought not but the betting seems to suggest he will.

VVM and Limini in the same race puzzles me too.

A well deserved 1st win for Shaneshill for over a year however, the proximity of Snow Falcon and non-performing Clondaw Warrior warrant consideration for the future. Nonetheless, a long overdue win for Shaneshill and certainly well deserved too.

Would be very surprised if VVM doesn't run in the Mares Hurdle. Ricci's other mare Limini would be hard pressed to beat Apple's Jade so surely he opt to get one on the board. Would be a great clash. I've taken the 5/2 Apple's Jade with PP. GL

I wonder if VVM might go for stayers. Voler La Vedette gave it a right good go. Is there any point running away from 1 horse ? think she'd stay ?

I think her best distance is over 20/21f, and 24f could be stretching it too far esp against the likes of Unowhatimeanharry and Cole Harden; she has had a 'cold' recently too but coming back to herself (I believe). Also, Mullins already has Shaneshill and Walsh can only ride one.

She had Shaneshill beaten when he fell at the last in the Christmas Hurdle at Leopardstown over 3 miles and they'd meet on the same terms in the Stayers so it's plausible if Ricci wants to keep her and Limini apart.

Not sure he does though - although Limini has just one entry now.

I know he mentioned that it has been a tough season, so they might send 2 to the mares. I know Harry is very handy, but obviously circumstances have changed. It will be interesting whatever they do.

Could see them running her in this, but Clondaw Warrior is the fly in the ointment for me. Got far too close to her at Christmas for my liking, then of course Snow Falcon reversed the form next time out. The Irish staying form is a bit skewed, I can't work it out.

However, upon saying all that, VVM would be a danger wherever she runs.