Cheltenham Festival
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I am wrting this after reading article on the subject. lets just have a look at a few off the hours at the top off the market don cossack age 9 couldnt even win a poor rynair, beaten by the likes of ma filleule, how its favourite in so called great field gold cup is beyond me, cue card AGE 10, hasnt made it to the festival since 2013, when it won ryanair, vautour and djakadam both have potential to go on a win one or more gold cup, this years field has no previous gold cup winners it may have some potential great horse but i think it cant be regarded as a great or best field ever, any thoughts and opinions welcome, when you look at previous with the likes of kauto and denman kauto had a gold cup under his belt by age of 7, none in this field have yet to come close
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It might not contain the best ever winner, but I can't remember a year when there were 6 viable and evenly matched horses that are all good enough to win an average running of the race. Actually, if you believe the RPR ratings, Don Poli, who is one of my 6, is only 8th best behind Road To Riches and Carlingford Lough!
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I'm a firm believer that you can't judge the strength of such a race until after it's been run. Sometimes, it takes longer, as the form is tested subsequently against, for example, the novices from this year.
But there can be do doubt that this measures up very well on paper, certainly in terms of strength in depth. Multiple Grade 1 winners, nearly all with excellent win to run ratios. If you're not looking forward to it, denman, fair enough, but many of us can't wait. |
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A competitive field in which we could seethe nearest thing to Kauto Star and Denman in Vautour and Don Poli.
we could see Mullins first 5 home. Cue card win the million. I don't see it as good a race as Long Runs Gold Cup |
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I think it's a hot gold cup. Intriquing in various ways, and deserves a prime time billing similar to kauto vs denman. That was Nicholls vs Nicholls. This is Mullins vs Mullins. Ricci vs Ricci. Giginstown vs Giginstown. Two jockey having to make a decision instead of one. There's also the matter of a bonus seeking king george winner with high festival form. It's all there.
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It's all there apart from any horse with pretensions to being a true champion, with the possible exception of Vautour who might not run and probably won't stay. We have been spoiled these last few years but the Gold Cup is in danger of reverting to an overhyped race for slow old boats.
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Come on take the Rose tinters off
We got 5 top grade 1 winners in their prime in this one and I can't remember that quality in Kautos or Denmans wins,plus Denman was half the horse after his heart problem. Steamship I have to disagree. Long Run smashed up two has bins imo and the best the Irish could offer up that race was Kempes. |
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yes, the strength in depth this year is as good as I can remember, nothing quite with the individual quality of Denman or Kauto but a wide open event
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True champions are only labelled as such because they don't come across races with next Fridays depth.
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the fav don cossack what has he won? couldnt win a rubbish rynair, have a word wouldnt of got within a fence of kauto, denman etc
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Still only see 7 horses that can win other than a fluke, it might be competitive but the depth cannot be measured yet imo.
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Really I remember Turpin Green only being 3 or four lengths behind Kauto in his first win.DC won a Punchestown Gold Cup which Kauto failed at and some proper donkeys have put the mighty Denman to the sword.
I thought this wasn't about compairing horses but the quality of the race. |
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lots of grade 1s between them, and most of them are only getting started
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Calling any race the best race is very subjective in my opinion. How do you define the "best"?
- The most even, competitive field? (I.e this year) - The most amount of collective grade 1 wins between them? - The highest average rating of the field? - The race with a great rivalry and battle (i.e Denman/Kauto) - The quickest timed winner? |
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The best GC Kauto competed in was the one he lost in `08 when Denman was at his best. I'm not sure this one is better than that but Don has the class to make it that good. CC and Vautour stamina concerns but so had Kauto who won 2. Smad is a different horse from the front. Djakadam showed signs of improvement in his first start and he'll be a good yardstick for last year race. The rest have very small chances of beating all 5 of them unless they all fell or take the wrong course, so at the top very competitive on paper but expect Don to confirm and even improve from his last season form.
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Some people would rather see one accepted superstar confirming his superiority over inferior animals than several potential superstars in a genuinely competitive race. It's why Formula 1 is much more popular than Moto GP!
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Don Cossack is the top rated chaser in training and it's not based on it's Ryanair run. Cue Card had a wind operation and has improved considerably. Djakadam finished second as a 6 year old. Vautour and Don Poli are only 7 and won at the Cheltenham festival as 5 and 6 year olds by wide margins.
Sir Des Champs a 66/1 outsider has won twice at the Festival and finished 2nd in a Gold Cup, he also beat Long Run in the grade one Puchestown Gold Cup. There is no previous winner as the two in training see the champion injured and Bob's worth not good enough to take these lot on and entered in the Ryanair instead. |
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Best Mate is considered a great but where would he have been in the betting market for this GC?
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favourite if he came after his first 2 wins.
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thanks for that Flipside, proved my point nicely
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oh no not timeform.. can't trust them atm.. UDS 180?! Just shi***... I might lose faith for a long time if NC wins on tuesday, they rate him as second rater when a horse with the same profile or lesser in previous years had been given their full support. Need I remind you that they rated Vautour higher than Coneygree for the good run in that awful race vs the performance in the GC...
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ratings have got out of hand the last 15years, we all know the reason.
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In Long Runs Gold Cup there were 3 former winners, Arkle winner, Lexus winner, English and Irish Hennessy winners
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Kempes What a friend and that version of Tidal Bay would be rags in this race.
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It's very competitive but hardly a vintage race unless Vatour dispels his stamina doubts.
Let's be honest Coneygree demolished the field last year and he isn't even running. What price would he be Friday? 2-1 perhaps. Kauto Star is legend as a dual winner who found the Chelters 3m2f a tad too far. Yet he stayed every inch of Kemptons flat 3m. As Vatour didn't appear to even stay that I think it is a longshot he can win this years Blue Ribband event. The fact he was outstayed by another dubious stayer in Cue Card adds fuel to the fire. |
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such a shame Coneygree isn't running, it looks a very good race without him, but would be an absolute dream if he was. 2/1 wouldn't be far off, I would think a little bit higher myself
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Fully agree with Cyclops about not being able to judge how good a race is until it's run. Last years gold cup didn't look like it was up to much on paper in the run up, but turned out to be a pretty smart renewal. Ok there has been better years still, but it turned out to be far better than it looked originally. Whether it's the ''best'' we don't know yet, but it's the most intriguing in a while for sure.
And yes it is gutting Coneygree isn't here, he looked like a monster on his return at Sandown. Could well have been even better. I'm already licking my lips at next seasons potential King George line up though and hopefully he's a part of it. |
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Coneygree only beat Road to Riches by 2 lengths and he prob won't even run here.Aint you forgetting Coneygree is ground dependant as well so prob would not be fav.
Many Clouds,Holywell,Conti all scared off this year by this crop |
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scared off, you are talking bollox.
One has a GN target, the other 2 have lost their way. So you know in advance the ground will not be soft on friday ? |
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I view it as scared off they know they can't win the Gold Cup.
I don't know about the ground friday but I am saying the ground would decide if Coneygree would be fav. |
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Jasey you do talk some sh1t.
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Charwell you think a one and a half length all out victory is a demolition job.
You say I talk sh1t. |
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@jasey, immediately after last year GC Nicholls said Silvi won't attempt another GC because its not his course. Many Clouds is being kept fresh for the GN because even though the GC has been an excellent prep for it in the past MC already has had a nice preparation and the festival is a week too late this year. Holywell has completely lost his way and is not worth going for the GC.
No one runs scared but I agree its terrible competitive at the top. At least it looks that way because we have incomplete information about some of the top runners and the direct formlines(mainly for Don falling but also CC/Smad finding a new level of form and Vautour coming out of novices), so as many said before you can only form an opinion of a race's strength many moons after the event, beforehand is impossible. That stands true for the CH as well, whoever I hear its a sub-standard or weak race I know not to trust their opinion in the future. You could say it looks a certain way but to say its definitely top class race or definitely an sub-average race is nonsense. |
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so why coudlnt don cossack win an shocking rynair, by age of 10 kauto / denamn had 3 gold cup, 4 king george, hennessy carry a stone more than any thing else, and loads of other race ie rsa romb by denman, whats don cossack got a 3rd place in a rynaair?
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Interesting disparity between Timeform and RPR on Smad Place who is on 177, within 8 lb of the top rated on RPR which is Don Cossack.
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Don Cosack looks the strongest stayer in the field apart perhaps from Smad Place.
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DC is unlikely to be done for stamina but DP & Djakkadam are loaded with stamina and are both stronger stayers.
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Not looking such a strong field now
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Really? Just one horse out and that was a non stayer and always more likely to run in the Ryanair.
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