Vautour OK?

If the market on here is anything to go by we can expect an announcement this morning that he is now switching to the Ryanair. Had a bit of Evs NRNB for the Ryanair but punters have been taken for mugs here.

Betvictor, Coral and B365 now shortening every other horse in the gold cup field.

Confirmed Ryanair by RR

Unbelievable

Unbelievable Jeff

ruby walsh is the king pin in all of this. i would understand if the heavens were going to open this week but there is no sign of wet weather and what form has djakadam got on good ground..none what so ever i really dont get all of this bullshit.
same as yorkhill going for the neptune all about ruby having a top class horse in every race of the festival...horses are not aloud to show full potential because of one man. its so wrong its blatant to see aswell

I feel physically sick.

And all in studio laughing and joking. Sorry whilst it's going for right race, it's a disgrace what they've said previously

piss take...i refuse to back a mullins walsh combination all week now

Genuinely disgusting behaviour

Never liked Walsh at the best of times so this isn't helping.

It makes my blood boil to think how they have taken everyone for fools, they must have known all along.

Absolutely shocking from Ricci and he has just made a fool of himself and many others after going on live TV last week and saying he will go for the gold cup or stay at home and now this! I will never be betting antepost again after this year they have tucked all us punters up something rotten with all this. Live TV and says there is no more skullduggery hope nichols canyon hammers Annie power today

I feel physically sick too. The festival ruined before it's even started imo. Walsh and Ricci particularly are just awful characters.

It will be interesting to see who has the cajones to call them out over this. Or will there be self-indulgent back slapping among the racing media fraternity afraid to upset the Mullins/Walsh/Ricci cartel?? They have destroyed a million dreams and not just from a betting proposition.

I don't think Ricci gets much say. Walsh trying to get as many winners as he can is the biggest problem if you ask me

Not to sound smart but they clearly don't discuss these things as a group (Ricci, Mullins, Walsh) until very close to the race. When Ricci made his comments, he obviously didn't realise Walsh wanted to be on Djakadam (as that is how it now appears) - who knows AP probably influenced Ruby

i was on nrnb at 10s but this stinks..without punters there would be no racing.they should be aware of that..

Ante Post punters shafted form the rear yet again

Just a thought Rich(very) Ricci made his dough as one head of a division of Barclays that manipulated  markets to line their pockets with huge bonuses.

Leopards dont change their spots

They should be put on live television and read out their quotes since Christmas and asked to explain them. But they won't because there isn't a racing journalist with the guts to call them out.

all been taking for mugs its absolutely criminal..if you read between the lines this it stinks..when theres so much money involved this should not be allowed to happen..this is no worst than a jockey not riding out a horse to win a race..how long do they banned for and a hefty fine...physically sick. festival is ****

Typical of a former banker to announce it in person in the Channel 4 studio, but no apology to punters or racegoers; I personally have benefited from this change as I was too p_ssed off with the shenanigans of WPM/RW/RR/GW. Again, late night Exchange movement for the Ryanair was vindicated once again. No doubt whose money was involved - surely there must be an enquiry after this blatant "fix"!

Shocking.
They have new for a while.

I'm not a fan of Ricci at all but i tend to agree that is down to Walsh. I'm not even convinced he wanted to choose Djakadam. He just wanted a good chance in both races. Are all that's been said its disgusting. It's obviously the most important one but Yorkhill was another example of the power of Walsh. He just wants a fancied ride in all the grade 1's and no one gets in his way.

Scummy behaviour. I've got no complaints about him running in the Ryanair by itself, but the way it's been managed has been disgusting, as was the Yorkhill affair.

lot of sanctimonious people on here - vautour is going for the race which suits him best, time will tell he is not a Gold Cup trip horse..better to back your own opinion than blame owner/trainer/jockey comments however it does spell the end for serious AP (pre-NRNB) festival betting

the money ricci makes from what he does is many multiples of what he might make from whats being said here..no way.its just a case of ruby calling the shots i think..and agree  no one has the guts to take him on and ask the pertinent questions..a shower of yes men..and women..

I've not even had a bet Gordon but can you defend what they've said? Publicly stated it's either gold cup or it stays at home. Now it goes Ryanair so where is the justification for this??

R.I.P Antepost punting

i'm not defending what they said, only that i don't put any store in what connections say although i do tend to believe ricci that this decision is in best interests of vautour

It's embarrassing that none of them said a thing to him about what he said last week! Fair enough if he said well we will wait till nearer the time but it looks like gold cup as that's what we have trained him for but still not 100% but to go on live TV and say he goes for the gold cup or doesn't go to Cheltenham is shocking!

thank fook I laid of the stake of my vautour bet ,wont happen but  hope all of riccis with walsh riding  get turned over

Here here Foyles. Be great to see them have a blank today

suits the horse best ! or suits walsh best ?

all yesterday decent money was being traded on vautour on here .............

Walsh may be admired but he will never be loved.

To repeatedly and categorically state Vautour had been trained for the Gold Cup and then announced in a TV studio, bold as brass, but not looking into the camera or presenters, that was ahugh slap in the face for punters/racegoers.

As a poster said earlier, RR was the head of a division at Barclays that later was fined for fixing LIBOR, Foreign Exchange Rates, etc, and its CEO, Mr Bob Diamond, asked to resign by the Governor of the Bank of England in 2010.

At the moment I hope punters/racegoers at Cheltenham racecourse will boo every winner of WPM/RW/RR - I'm so disgusted by their about turn.

Completely agree Impossible

a few on here need to grow up - when in history of horseracing did connections make decisions in consideration of punters/racegoers?  the preview night industry appears to have taken over thinking for some of you

The media pushes and pushes these questions for months, everyone wants connections to commit, eventually they are going to say something they'll later regret. The reality is that they will always want to leave their options open to the last minute. RR may have wanted to go for the GC, but he doesn't have the final say (by choice). If you play in these markets you might be playing someone who knows more than you, it's a big boys game. Lick your wounds (if you have any) and move on I suggest.

Gordon, can you tell me the last time a gold cup favourite (or joint favourite) was rerouted on the week of the race to another race. The Gold Cup is the biggest race of the whole year. If we can't even rely on horses going for that, what can we rely on. As has been said previously, this is the death of ante post betting apart from NRNB for punters. It doesn't effect me financially but it totally ruins the festival. And one gold cup is worth more than 10 Ryan Airs. It's a terrible day for racing.

WPM just intimated in a short on course interview with Nick Luck RW can only ride one horse in one race.

Well done layers. What a pathetic bottle job. Never won a gold cup and theyre too scared to throw theyre best horse at it. Really looking forward to laughing my arse off when ricci does his fake humble 'were human and we got it wrong' bankers apology later this week.

In the midst of all this if we take Ricci's word at face value (Vautour is not firing) then why is he 4/6 for the Ryanair? Can they at least be honest and admit who made the decision to switch or will they faff about and brush it off. This one will run and run and run. Also no co-incidence that they done it on the first day of the festival in the hope that it would get diluted somewhat in the media.

Because of this disgusting behaviour I hope the bookies would pay out to the 1st/2nd (to Vautour) or Vautour does not win the Ryaniar despite Vautour is the last leg of my acca at 1.9.

Now, will RTR be confirmed for the Gold Cup with the ground considered to be in his favour.

vautour IMO is the one man of his day without (this year at least) having to clamber over the last to prove he's a non-stayer at the GC trip..the fact that vautour was so high in the betting was due to a magnificent win over 2m4 last year and the connections, in fact the same connections who have a serious candidate this year, one who is proven at the trip. for anyone to say this ruins the festival is churlish and childish. i do agree GC will always be levels ahead of Ryanair but for that i blame the dilution caused by the 4 day festival

I think you are missing the point completely Gordon. The decision itself isn't the problem its the whole misleading the public that is. We were continually told it was being aimed at the GC and right up until yesterday there were no indications that they were even wavering. Wghen the festival is done and dusted this will still be the single biggest story.

Churlish and childish?? Are you having a laugh mate.

its you that is missing the point

when in history of horseracing did connections make decisions in consideration of punters/racegoers?

This has a monumental impact on every single bet wagered in the Ryanair on all the other horses too.  Whatever you had backed, you must now think you've done your money too?

This decision effects a hell of a lot more than one horse in one race.

Disgrace! This ricci guy is an ego-maniac in wanting to have the BIG NEWS on day 1 and take all the focus away from anyone else. They must have know on dec 27th he wouldn't be going gold cup yet they've spent 3 months telling everybody it'll stay. I have no financial interest in the Ryanair (backed it for champ chase in jan - speculative) so this is not from the pocket. It's just a joke that they come out with this now.

Gordon63

I think you have seriously missed the point here! It is not the decision itself BUT how connections have stringed unsuspecting and others along all this time despite the ground could not be any better for Vautour on race day.

"Vautour has done far better work this week than he has in the last three (weeks).

"That tells me he should go for the Gold Cup. Every year at Christmas Vautour disappoints us a bit, and every year he improves in the spring and for the hill at Cheltenham. This year looks no different. We expect a huge run."

This is what Mullins said as recently as last week, then Ricci tells us this morning he hasn't been pulling up trees in his work. Even when announcing the decision they can't be straight. If he bolts up in the Ryanair it will leave a bad taste in the mouth and thats as someone who backed him at 6.00am this morning at Evs before the announcement. The market showed what was happening so financially I'm glad I had the sense to cover my stake. It doesn't make the decision correct though and as others have said it has massive implications on the entire markets for 2 races.

To do it in the biggest race of the season in the manner they have done is just simply shocking.

Yes, it is shocking. They should hang their heads in shame.

They should withdraw Vautour so as not to rub salt into the wounds of those who'd backed him in the Gold Cup, and leave the Ryanair to the genuine, sincere, and popular connections.

Yes, they did say it would be the Gold Cup or the horse wouldn't run.

This whole thing is just horrible.

The way this has been handled has been pretty appalling to be honest but I wonder if it might backfire in the long run on Walsh/Mullins.  In my opinion Ricci is desperate to win the Gold Cup and may have been honest when he said, in his opinion, it was gold cup or nothing.  As many has speculated above, Walsh has probably twisted Ricci's arm for his own ends but if Djackadam doesn't win the gold cup (and in my opinion he won't unless there is some rain), then what?

Ricci might not have another chance anytime soon (look at Coneygree - fortune favours the brave) and he may resent the fact that he let Walsh change his mind.

Wouldn't be the first owner to fall out with a trainer over race targets and its hardly as if Ricci is wedded to racing as a hobby given his background.  He should have taken a leaf out of O'Leary's book and stuck to his guns.

BetBright, whose executive chairman is Rich Ricci, are paying out on Vautour as the winner of the Gold Cup.

If it was in any doubt, it couldn't be any clearer who made the decision.

A light-hearted comment at a Cheltenham preview night in the Keadeen Hotel seems to have come back to haunt me.

I said I was trying to persuade Willie Mullins to send Vautour to the 2m 5f Ryanair Chase rather than the Cheltenham Gold Cup, but it was just a bit of fun.

It was more a case of me trying to make my life easier as it’s probably going to come down to me choosing between Djakadam and Vautour in the Friday feature.

It would make things rosy in Ruby’s world if they don’t clash! But I can’t see it happening.

At least everything is all rosy in Ruby's world this morning though!!

"If I've let the punters down, I apologise, I wasn't trying to

The logic was that if he was good enough to work for the Ryanair, he would run in the gold cup.

It just turns out a 90% Vautour has a better chance of winning the Ryanair than the gold cup."

Rich Ricci on his decision to run Vautour in the Ryanair.

The huge volley of ante-post cash placed by the Rich Ricci camp on the Ryanair after the K.G is the story here. I believe Walsh may have known what race he would be riding this horse in for an awful long time (he just needed the insurance if Djakadam stood on a stone or similar).

Just to clarify, these were Ruby Walsh's quotes at a recent preview night, it is clearly Walsh who calls the shots here.


A light-hearted comment at a Cheltenham preview night in the Keadeen Hotel seems to have come back to haunt me.

''I said I was trying to persuade Willie Mullins to send Vautour to the 2m 5f Ryanair Chase rather than the Cheltenham Gold Cup, but it was just a bit of fun.

It was more a case of me trying to make my life easier as it’s probably going to come down to me choosing between Djakadam and Vautour in the Friday feature.

It would make things rosy in Ruby’s world if they don’t clash! But I can’t see it happening.''

I'd like Vautour to be withdrawn from the Ryanair so that those in the know and who backed it big time last night and this morning do and cannot profit from it. And, I'm sure those who have backed Vautour for the Ryanair in good faith also do not wish to be backing a runner that is 90% ok as Vautour could hurt himself/be pull up or RW could do a KV.

In horse racing unlike the City winning must not be at all costs - Mr Ricci, it's time to show some decency, self awareness (not self regard), sportsmanship and fairness to other participants.

"Only in the last week have we got enough work into Djakadam and we were happy and then I started to think differently.

I never said anything to rich and yesterday I started talking about it, and then this morning we said that was the way we were going to go."

Willie Mullins

Walsh laid the reponsibility at Willie Mullins door this morning on Racing UK saying that he only found out this morning. Also claimed he didn't ask Mullins why he decided to change race at this stage in case he changed his mind.

after all the fuss it appears that connections don't think he'll stay afteralll!!

I'm not buying the "he's not been pulling up trees" argument, if he's not right he won't win the Ryanair either.

^ yeah, WPM didn't say that at all. Reckon RR is just saying that to cover himself after he's been left with egg on his face. He's going to destroy them Thursday.

im sure its the right decision, putting politics aside

wouldve been like one man up the hill

Dissapointing. What a let down in many ways.

A couple of points to add here:

Ruby does not make running plans for the yard, Willie does this all by himself, but Ruby's availability or lack of does have a strong influence on where Willie runs them.

Rich Ricci is a relative newcomer to racing, an amateur who still has plenty to learn. He should not be making statements about any horse's long term running plans because he doesn't make those decisions. This is naivity rather than something more sinister.

Ricci probably always wanted to believe Vautour was a Gold Cup horse and still thought so after the KG (when Willie most likely no longer did)

Ricci may have assumed Ruby would ride Vautour in the GC which was also naive.

Vautour would have run in the GC if for any reason Djakadam didn't make it

Congratulations to Betbright

betbright paying out vautour gold cup bets as a winner

Having seen the interview on The Morning Line either Ricci is an extremely good actor or I don't think he's too happy about the decision. I'd be surprised if this decision was made by him.

Makes one wonder if this entire fiasco was just one long drawn out publicity stunt for Betbright

Gold cup or nothing he said.  Damage has been done. Paddy Power was also the biggest price on Vautour for some time. ****g scandalous, and i haven't backed the horse.

They were also standout biggest for Ryanair since RR made the comments until they went NRNB

While obviously the most high profile switch by this devious lot this sort of thing has been happening with them for a few seasons now, and while many people will have lost on Vautour loads of others will have very big prices on him for the Ryanair, plus better prices than they would otherwise have got for other gold cup runners.

Basically just ignore everything they say and back your own judgement about which race a horse will run in - or wait until final decs.

Puncle it goes beyond bet slips. Paddy Power are inside trading with a leading jockey. Now obviously people will say take advantage, but it casts a cloud over the sport.

think this will backfire on them not only on how low they are but djackadam could hit a fence hard and come down whereas think Vatour could have won it then. If I was the owner both ould go for gold cup and not cater for walsh's greed

If djak hadn't had the mishap around Cheltenham earlier we may have had all this cleared up a lot earlier, now djak has made it they finally reveal that vautour was only a super sub all along.

I think what goes around comes around anyway and I've a feeling they'll have a bad day today. Maybe 2 out of the 4 to win with perhaps Min and AP or VVM disappointing.

Just in response to a post earlier in the thread, RTR almost certainly runs in the Gold Cup with Valseur Lido in the Ryanair?

If there's any justice in this world both Vautour and Djakadam will be pulled up, a 90% for Vautour lol who does he think he's fooling?
Obviously thinks the opposition in the Ryanair are useless if that's the case.
Here's hoping for a bit of karma

so basically , the mullins stable cleaned up on betfair.  Hence the massive drift last night and this morning.   This stinks to punters. Hope betfair refund exchange punters.

Hope betfair refund exchange punters.


More chance of Vautour running in the mares race.

This lot have hit a new low, even for them. Utterly disgraceful and they've single handedly killed Ante Post punting.

Ain't watched it yet but there were plenty of boos in the stand as all the the Ricci horses went down to the start today. No idea whether they were booed on the way back or in the paddock.

Can see Vautour winning easily on Thursday and coming back to a Top Cees style reception. They certainly deserve it.

festival ruined for some apparently....

Vautour is definitely OK.

Looked O.K to me

Absolute travesty that this horse took his place in the Ryanair, if that's 90% then the rest were cart horses are n the race. If Djakadam fails to deliver a gold cup the Mullins decision will look more ridiculous.

Listening to the interview is sickening, "ruby wouldn't have brought in", machin playing the game also..."looks like youhad a hard job to get him here"

makes you wonder how they'd manage if they had real problems to deal with like hendo had to

The "key" words from RR were "they insist" (I presumed WPM/RW) that Vautour was not working well after his assertion at Kempton in the soft; there was mooted appreciation for Vautour (hand clap) BUT dead silence when owner was interviewed on air, and he was "squirming" I believe!

charwell.
charwell. 02 Mar 16 19:17 Joined: 28 Sep 04 | Topic/replies: 7,098 | Blogger: charwell.'s blog
I have been saying for ages he will go for the Ryanair and I can see no reason why he won't.

1) The stable have a live contender in Djakadam but nothing which is a shoe in the Ryanair.
2) In a championship race @ his optimum distance he will be slight odds on and should scoot in.
3) If he runs in the Ryanair and doesn't have too hard a race he will be able to go to Aintree/Punchestown for another lucrative G1 event.
4) The horse is only 7. A gruelling race over a trip too far could really bottom this horse out and affect his future.
5) The world and his wife including his Jockey (Walsh) can see he won't stay in a taxi.
6) Close connections are strongly hinting he goes for the Ryanair.
7) They will campaign him next season to see if he will get the GC (at best unproven currently) and potentially cement his legacy as a triple G1 winner @ different distances.

Over to you Mr Mullins..............


.....Hate to say I told you so but cannot trust WPM and his team re targets. I think it was the right decision but the celebrations were muted in the extreme. Hope most of you wagered wth the bookies who rebated losses/paid out as winner.

Be very interesting to see where Douvan is pitched next year and Vatour!

With Vautour not being able to go the pace dictated by Special Tiara in the Irish Champion Chase at Punchestown earlier on any one with a CC bet at Cheltenham next year has just lost their money I firmly believe. With this failure in mind WPM has Douvan as the only bullet to retain the CC crown meaning Douvan, the only one with credential and experience over fences, is highly unlikely to be going the Gold Cup route next year, I think. And that leaves Vautour, Ryanair again? If so Djakadam back on the GC trail despite WPM's reservation.

But there is a long time between now and next March.

Has the Vautour bubble of invincibility burst?
Is he, perhaps, just not quite as good as we'd all thought?

The worst campaigning of a grade 1 horse you are ever likely to see. It's so bad it's almost laughable. Did they perhaps believe their own lies during interviews throughout the season?

Please do point out cyclops where anyone said he was invincible. Can you provide evidence of that? No? Didn't think so.

He was pretty awful today, granted. But that wasn't anything like the running of his best form was it. Even someone who can't abide the horse so much must admit that.

Cue Card must be pretty poor then, as he fought for his life to get past him at Kempton. And Don Cossack was fighting as hard as he'd ever done before when he came down 2 out.

Paterson, I think some of you believed their statements. Even now, there are some who put Douvan ahead of Faugheen, just like they did with Vautour. Rich Ricci, keeps saying these stupid things and people in media, then some on here keep repeating them as facts. The latest one, Ruby said after the race "He was flat out the whole race over this trip" which RR passed it on to the ATR journalists as "he was flat, had a hard campaign" So from Ruby saying he was going as blazing fast as he could to RR reporting he was flat because of too much racing :) Then people will say its end of season form. But everyone who watched the race and saw how he stayed late on get that he lacked the speed to make the blow then stamina kicked in somewhat in the last part. Certainly lacks the 'boost' thats needed in these speed races but thats ok because he'll be a good GC candidate next season, hopefully they go down that route..

The sad thing is RR will listen and repeat everything WPM/RW say to him despite sounding ridiculous to the racing public and fraternity - RR has very little clue about the horse racing game!

The run of Vautour yesterday clearly showed 2m was not the optimum trip for Vautour now. The $64k question is will Vautour be campaigned over 3m/3.25m despite the annihilation of his field over 2.5m in the Ryanair? Personally, I'd doubt that given the lack of commitment from connections since the King George to prove/disprove he actually stays 3m and/or beyond, but ran him over 2m instead.

As for Douvan taking up the Gold Cup mantle again unlikely in my opinion; if so, I'd take Douvan on with Killutagh Vic, Djakadam and others in his stable currently campaigned over more than 2m. The likes of VVM and AP are also unlikely because the former is not good enough and the latter too fragile and inexperienced.