RIP Ante Post Beeting

I love AP betting, but this has left a nasty taste.

I work for joes  in a busy shop  yesterday had a look at this years festival
a post bets the total stakes would not  get a decent bottle of wine
no intrest  from the punter and getting less year on year

I totally agree Ante Post is dead and buried. The connection between the powerful stable and Paddies and now Paddies and B/fair ain't going to improve things for the future. If what I'm led to believe is true and persons were laying Faugheen in the last few days why did it take till today to make an announcement. Why was there a change in plan with AP suddenly over the weekend. It all smells of rats them dead ones that have been lying round in the sewers for days.

How can Peace & Co be 9-1 ? That's a joke, surely? I know that it's a sub standard renewal without the Champ, but really? I wouldn't back it at 39-1.

No more antepost for next year for me.  I think that this tipped me over the edge.

People will have done their money on Faugheen (hopefully people went NRNB, but I didn't have that), then they'll do their money on Annie for the Mares or the World, and in all likelihood whoever backed VVM for the Ryanair or World Hurdle, you've done your money too.

The flip flopping between the Supreme and Neptune for Yorkhill and Bellshill (Paddies have cut him for this, but now they pushed him out for that....but wait, they've cut him again!).

Just add that to L'Ami Serge going back and forth between Arkle and JLT, Barters Hill between Neptune and Albert Bartlett, Vautour/RTR Ryanair and Gold Cup etc.  It's an absolute minefield.

Completely messed up my doubles and trebles with the 'banker' gone - the others were at decent prices which no longer available now; the irony is the weakness in Faugheen here yesterday has again been proven correct.

What I thought was one of my best bets, Garde La Victoire, looks likely to run in the JLT instead of the Arkle. I had also backed him for the Supreme but that was the only really bad run of his career.

tom - I agree 100% and I have been hugely impacted by todays news and the knock on impact. Ante Post is what it is. High risk. But we all get tempted every year as we follow the dream and I dare say I will do exactly the same again for 2017 Festival. The temptation is too great. Cant help myself getting involved.

Too many complaining on here tonight. My message to those complaining about the impact and knock-on effect of todays news is "dry your eyes and get back on the horse". Of course the odds are stacked high in favour of the bookies. T'was ever thus. Thats how they continue to operate and allows us to keep dreaming. Move on.

Tears aplenty so what was the best price Faugheen I can only remember it being 7/4 maybe I am wrong but if plying antepost 7/4 people must need their barnacles tested

Appreciate when antepost change races ...... That's the chance you take however the pric should reflect the chance taken last year IRish Cavalier entered in 2 handicaps luckily I picked right one .....my reward wasn't that great on reflection 8pts more it won but was it worth the risk probably no but yeas only because I called it right ..... That's what betting is all about playing at the correct price

I am sitting with buttons on Smashing 150/1 for RyanAir & few coins at 75/80s not for a fortune of a return but that is what I call antepost value at its best

It's not so much Faugheen being out that is annoying me, that can happen to any one, it is the re-routing of Annie Power and Vroum Vroum Mag that has annoyed me.

It's been said lots of times, but I think because one owner, with one trainer can just reshuffle their pack without thinking of the consequences is wrong.

Also, the too many complaining, this has been coming for a long time.  Yes, the bookies have the odds in their favour, but with so many horses being entered in two or even three races, what hope do we stand.  Why not just leave it til the day of the race is the question I ask myself?

Nowadays you are not only hoping for a good run of one you've backed, but now you need to factor in who else the owner has and hope they win or lose, depending on how you need it to go.  For example, I've spent more time worrying about how Bristol de Mai has been running, as he has a huge impact on L'Ami Serge will run, when all I should be thinking of is "Is L'ami Serge good enough to win the Arkle?" - this is before he got stuffed by the way.

When horses are seperated based on their owner/trainer having one already in the race, when something like this does happen, the ripple effect is huge.

I have really good prices on Black Hercules, No More Heroes and Un De Sceaux, but they all need to win just to get me level now, and Black Hercules could easily take No More Heroes on in the RSA.

Ante post betting 20 odd years ago was worthwhile and you could get some great prices, remember backing Salsabil at 14s for the 1000 guineas after she'd won the Prix Marcel Boussac, what price would the bookies go nowadays? 4s maybe 6s. It's great excuse to squeeze all the prices and say they've massive ante post liabilities I said on another thread I wanted to back Gallant Oscar for the 2014 Troytown Chase at 10s with PP the max bet was 39p!!!!!!!!!!!! Told them to close my account and the horse was a non runner! Last night I tried to place £100 EW on Holywell for the National at 25s wouldn't accept anything and I've never placed a bet with them?

I despise pocket-takers but the ones that really get my goat are the ones that come on a forum AFTER a horse is injured and they tell everyone they were idiots for taking 7/4 on a 1/3 shot.

Also, the too many complaining, this has been coming for a long time.  Yes, the bookies have the odds in their favour, but with so many horses being entered in two or even three races, what hope do we stand.  Why not just leave it til the day of the race is the question I ask myself?

In fairness, wellchief, you could just wait until the day of the race - it is your choice whether or not to play at the odds offered for a given race!

Nowadays you are not only hoping for a good run of one you've backed, but now you need to factor in who else the owner has and hope they win or lose, depending on how you need it to go.  For example, I've spent more time worrying about how Bristol de Mai has been running, as he has a huge impact on L'Ami Serge will run, when all I should be thinking of is "Is L'ami Serge good enough to win the Arkle?" - this is before he got stuffed by the way.

I would argue that in days gone by, when there was less of stranglehold from one owner (or a few), you would then need to factor in how other more evenly-spaced horses would run instead. I don't think it's a different situation really. I also think that nine times out of 10 people worry too much about owners shuffling their decks - in reality, the horses tend to go for the races they are most likely to win more often than not. Take your Bristol De Mai / L'ami Serge example -> Bristol has always been more likely to run in the JLT and L'ami Serge the Arkle, and that seems to be what is going to happen (if Serge runs anywhere).

Of course I know there are examples when horses are running in the races that probably suit them less than others to accommodate others, but this is virtually always because the owners/trainers involved feel they have a better chance with the other one. And I wouldn't be mad keen on backing one in a race when his own trainer thinks he has a better one for the race in his yard alone... Also, there are plenty of examples of trainers/owners getting it wrong without doing so by avoiding a stablemate - mistakes happen in choosing suitable targets, so it's not as though the problem goes away if a few owners/trainers didn't have this stranglehold.

When horses are seperated based on their owner/trainer having one already in the race, when something like this does happen, the ripple effect is huge.

Today's news has probably instigated an unprecedented ripple effect, and I do understand why so many people are so frustrated by what has happened. But again, that is the risk we all take by playing in ante-post markets, and Willie Mullins and Rich Ricci have every right to shuffle their pack as they see fit. To be fair to them, they will no doubt be gutted by this news far more than any of us, and, additionally, from a neutral perspective, surely a scenario where Annie Power runs in the Champion and Vroum Vroum Mag runs in the Mares Hurdle is the best, most sporting plan of attack from here. If I was in their shoes, this is what I would be doing.

One last thing about ante-post betting nowadays - the value seems to be more and more in taking a punt on one you like at really big prices, often for a few quid. The Legend's post where he outlines his coins on Smashing at 150-1 and at 75/80 for the Ryanair outlines how much value there is to be had. We are becoming increasingly aware that bookies don't want to be taking ante-post bets at silly prices, so we should try not to fall into the trap they set us. The majority of fancied horses (single-figure prices) for the big races at Cheltenham will be on offer at bigger prices on the day, so there really is no need to be getting money on them at this stage. Backing something at 100+ in the handicaps as soon as the entries come out is still well worth a few bob though...

@The_Legend Don't mind me i'm just pizzed off. Apart from my obvious AP bet i really thought we were going to see a very special 180+ performance by Faugheen this year. Ah well.

Obviously bad news for Faugheen backers.... but a non runner like that means just about any bet, still in contention is now fantastic value for punters, and a liability for the bookies.

I can't see there'd be loads of big hitters on Faugheen at 1/3 etc, as you'd have that on the day, but plenty of nice ew bets some of us must have on that have now nearly halved in price.

Of course the fly in the oinment is the supplementary entry stage....shame about that from my viewpoint, but if Annie Power runs in the CHurdle, then, there may be no Rich Ricci runner in the WHurdle, so for me it's swings and roundabouts.

Plenty of Antepost value on the exchange still in my view, but not with the bookies, who if you are trying to keep accounts open, aren't worth risking anything more than 20 quid.

Wellchief, aren't those last points relevant to Mullins rather than AP betting per se? And the new races don't help

Or just say nothing and stop putting people away.

They could say, "I don't know. Every victory is something to be celebrated and we'll worry about future targets nearer the time."