Time for a new rule i think to combat monopolisation of a sport we all love

what difference would that make,it would still be uncompetitive racing if thats what you are getting at

I agree totally with your sentiments STS but would be against any interference from authorities on ownership and training of horses along the lines you suggest.

My fear is that the racing at Cheltenham (for me) will become boring; last year Tuesday was the worst day I've had at the Festival (not through punting, merely through watching uncompetitive so-called Championship races, accompanied by the sound of favourite-backing racegoers thinking punting is easy).

I recognise that's just me though. The majority will just LOVE lumping on short-priced Mullins bankers and watching them hose up.

The answer can only be though for others to up their game.

Realistically though, this means owners coming into the game with more ego than money, like Abramovich and Sheikh Mansoor in football, since the cost of a top class horse from France is now way higher than what one could realistically expect to ever win in prize money. I'm not convinced this scenario is that preferable either. Ricci seems a decent bloke with his heart in the jumps game but I'm not sure this would be the same with any other multi-millionaire who sees Jumps Racing as his own personal fiefdom.

In short - fkdifino what the answer is!

I just want to see competitive racing at the so called olympics of jump racing and not the farce we have today. Of course i agree that if we had a 5/1 the field champ hdl that that would be a bad year. One of the best champ hdls of many a year imo was won by Jezki, what price did the jolly go off that year It was ultra competitive, not a one horse procession as what this years is promising to be!

The politics of racing are very difficult. I suppose the relation to the point in regards Barcelona and football probably ring true here, but where are these other billionaires coming from Rich Ricci's mate maybe getting into the game on the back of seeing his mates success and maybe a drunken bet in a pub maybe

And it does all boil down to one thing, what part of decision making is down to the trainer or owner. We all now know WM makes all these decisions, but if he was forced to spread his horses around, would that change thus making little difference. Jeez av just dismissed my own point with more politics

MS- I agree with the large part of that and I do believe that Cheltenham is becoming the be all and end all of the national hunt racing but thats a completely different discussion. I do also think that Ricci is a man who gets the game & has a true love for it and by that I mean he just wants big race winners. And personally, I don't massively have a problem with that (Id like to think we would all be the same). Where the problem lies in my opinion is that all of these races just happen to be at Cheltenham. Don't get me wrong I don't believe there is a racing fan our there that wouldn't relish an AP vs VMM mares hurdle or a Vautour vs Douvan Queen Mother but I think the same racing fan realises that halving your potential winners for the sake of a competitive race doesn't make much sense (from an owners and trainers perspective). 

I would also raise the point, that they haven't flooded the game with money. All of their superstars weren't million pound purchases. Their eye for talent is astonishing, how year in year out they manage turn water to wine is nothing short of amazing. Before Ricci purchased them Vautour, Min, Douvan had won 1 race from 6 in France. There are superstars out there to be bought and not for a great deal. Buts its having the ability to identify them and thats where I think they are so much further ahead than everyone else.

Apologies for any patronising STS. They don't make for the greatest betting proposition in the world but then neither did Frankel. Watching these animals in March and being able to say, "I was there" is good enough for me. Sorry that turned into a bit of a ramble! But hey, game of opinions and thats mine.

why can people not understand that this is not a criticism of RR or WPM what they have achieved is stunning - for pitys sake PLEASE try and get past that and just focus on how thrilling it would be to see the best race the best and not avoid each other. Using Frankel is simply not a good parallel - if it were a one off that would be very different, but we are talking about multiple situations where multiple horses are avoiding each other. We can say well i would do the same until we are blue in the face but that is not the point - the point is racing is losing out on seeing epic battles and epic rivalries and people being dismayed at that is simply not the same as being critical of RR or WPM. I admire what RR and WPM have achieved, i would admire it even more if they didnt focus solely on the number of cheltenham wins they had but also focused on their ability to create magical and everlasting memories in a sport that was great before they were born and will long outlive them. Is anybody seriously going to look back at the day AP won a mares hurdle by 10 lengths or is she more likely be remembered as the mare that we will never know how good she was - and when we are asked by our kids why dont we know the only answer we can give is because the connections preferred to win a soft race than try and win a tough one, why did they do that, because they had another horse in the tough race. I think it is the unprecedented power they have to shape memories for all of us and the fact that we are being forced to embrace the consequence of their decision or f**k off if we dont like it.

JB23 - re cheltenham - the reason it is very related rather than a completely different discussion is that Cheltenham now is the be all and end all - in the past if horses avoided each other through the season it wasnt quite as bad because we could trust that come Cheltenham it would be different - but if Cheltenham becomes like that also then the landscape starts to look very different - it is one thing to tell people they should enjoy watching annie power win a mares race by a furlong - but you cannot force yourself to enjoy that knowing there was a rival out there that could have made it a race to remember. I for one am not blaming anyone, i am just wishing it were very different.

Q - so are you saying that these horses are only avoiding each other because they can - so any solution would involve taking away the choice -  seems very similar logic to OP - just different solution. Of course there is no solution to this. The owner and trainer have a clear strategy and they are completely entitled to make the choice they are. Some embrace the choice they are making some dont. It is possible a different trainer / owner will dominate sometime in the future and they may make a different choice and run their best against each other. My question then would be would the people defending the WPM/RR strategy be against this as they would prefer them to keep their horses apart?

I can't see which horses are ducking each other?  Both Dons, in the same ownership, seem to be heading to the GC.  Vautour and Jack seem to be on course for the GC.

Have I missed something?

HM - are you seriously suggesting that wpm and/or RR horses havent avoided each other over the past few years - whether people are ok with them avoiding is one thing but to say it hasnt happened leaves me completely bemused

HM - to provide a more robust answer to you - Douvan not being kept over hurdles because they have faugheen, faugheen and vautour not running against each other as novices, neither AP nor UDS being given the opportunity to run in a CH, AP and VVM the best two mares around not runnning against each other, NC not running in last years supreme. These are all decisions i understand, the strategy i understand. They are decisions i am not criticising but ones i wish had been different

you refer to DP/DC - we are getting this match up because of who owns them - the op was talking about RR not giggi - you may be right about Vautour and Djak and if it does happen i will be absolutely delighted and irresepctive of financial interest a big chunk of me will be hoping they finish first and second and give us an absolute thrill, and everybody praises the owner to the rafters for being so sporting and then he can feel for himself what it means to give racing such an extraordinary thrill and a different kind of thrill than the ones he has provided to date and my hope is that when he feels this for himself he will make some adjustments to his strategy moving forward. If on the other hand it doesnt work out we may never see a similar match up again, similalrly if they avoid each other i will be gutted - unless v runs again and shows us patently he doesnt stay.

Douvan not being kept over hurdles because they have Faugheen is an amazing response tbh.  Douvan has been electric over fences - Faugheen or no Faugheen surely that was the right decision?

Let's say Faugheen and Douvan went chasing this season and Mullins finished 1,2 in the Champion with Nicholls Canyon and Arctic Fire...then what happens?  Doesn't seem like he can win tbh.

Do you want them all to run in the Champion?  Or all to run in the Gold Cup?  Or Arkle?

Maybe we'd have one amazing bloody race then we can all go home.

What about a 2.5m G1 Brush Hurdle?

We can call it the Intergalactic Wallop Stakes and shove the lot of them in there.  I'd pay good money to see that Miltons and the ante-post betting would be off the scale!  Think you might have nailed it

HM -BTW i have absolutely no idea what point your last post is making

Not if they had kept UDS over hurdles....think hes a better hurdler, and he would certainly liven things up!!

Obviously not everyone agrees but increasingly to me Cheltenham becomes a more glorified version of the Punchestown festival and Mullins dominating and firing his guns sporadically to bring in the most money exacerbates the problem for. I'd imagine they'll go to five days before they'd go back to three but the festival has lost a little lustre for me and we have undoubtedly been deprived of some great races and I can see this trend continuing.

Not really Headmaster, as Vautour is not a proven stayer all he would have to say is we don't think he will stay.
Then nobody would say anything.

Dream races are well and good but in the real world WM would be a fool to run Faugheen vs Vautour as novices, Faugheen vs Douvan in this years CH. WM policy is to win as many good races as possible and to be honest it's not only logical but financially beneficial.
Also the point about UDS in the CH well the reason they gave was the horse was buzzy and Cheltenham may have too soon and blew his brains. WM does what he feels is best for his horses and owners. Personally I think Vautour should go for the Ryanair this year and take his chance in next years GC but WM knows fair more than me!

This is all only about opinions but the OP quote about Jezki's CH being one of the best is naïve and laughable. WM has taken the game to another level in the last few years and long may it continue. He comes across as a very humble gentleman and like we all know people don't like winners.

Yeh,he always has a reason. Too buzzy??!!! Anyone can say what they want, choose to believe him if you want, for me that's total rubbish.
Actual reason....... he wanted Fly to win the race and knew UDS would beat him.

Well Jezki's CH obviously wasn't as good as last years and he could only manage 4th!

Depends on how you define a good Champion Hurdle.  In terms of build up, anticipation, the prep runs - everything about that year's was great.

The New One and MTOY locking horns in the Christmas Hurdle, HF vs Jezki vs Our Conor in Ireland was served up many times.

The threads on here were going into overtime - what do this year's say?  Who will finish second to Faugheen and might as well give him the trophy now? Hardly captures the imagination does it?

Whatever floats your boat WC in terms of quality last years was obviously superior.