please please please mr r change your model

ccm - before i respond help me understand how it would be better if more were like him - sorry if i am being dense

warren buffets share profolio is very diverse for that very reason jolly

It's probably more like 25 now isn't it to be fair?

Jesus! Had no idea it was that many. That is a staggering amount for one owner to have in one stable.

Yes i was shocked also. You'd be amazed how many never make it to the track.

Here's one for you - Gigginstown sent 50+ horses to WPM for 2014/2015 season and only around 20 made it to the track. Unless a horse is exceptionally talented then it's a case of the strongest only survive in the yard. Reminds me of M. Pipe but WPM clearly has more classy horses.

ok i get what you mean now - but not really what i meant- the other owners i reference do not all have the same model but they all share two things in common (the two things i stated) jpm has hundreds of horses of all abilities as do godolphin and hamdan - khalid abdullah and the aga khan are very different and their model has quality at the heart of their operation and of paramount importance to their operations has always been not compromising their blood line (particulalrly in the case of AK).National hunt has benefitted enormously from the aga khans relentless desire to protect the quality of his bloodlines. How often do you see his colours donning a selling plater at bath

So when i say he hasnt plagirised i didnt mean he should buy hundreds of horses of all abilities nor did i mean he should set up a breeding operation i just meant for the better of the sport (in so many ways) i would like him to spread his horses and let them take each other on. so it is a little like stating the bleeding obvious that racing would benefit from more owners buying just top quality horses but it would benefit even more if each of those new owners spread their horses and let them take each other on.

in terms of you comments about why would he change anything - the answer to that is depends on why he owns horses - if he is interested in return on investment (you stated return for quality horses) - then racing is a crazy pursuit to invest in - unless you nail the breeding side which wont happpen with geldings the best you can hope for is to minimise losses and minimising losses seems a bizarre objective for both a hobby/passion and an investment.

so maybe the glory of success. well its the horse that gets the glory first and foremost followed by the trainer, stable staff and the jockey - the owner pays the bills. I remember a friend telling me that he saw clive smith signing autographs - seriously well done clive oyu were instrumental in the horses success - if you hadnt bought ks someone else would have !!!!

The thrill of winning - absolutely - totally get it i have experienced this feeling myself and there is nothing like it - jpm, hamdan and co get it too i reckon

the love of the sport - i hope so but how can it be if he really loved the sport he would let his horses compete against each other and he would let more people in racing benefit from his generous investment. If you asked me to stack rank the owners listed on their love for the sport based on the evidence i see he would be bottom of the list.

If anyone thinks that there are undiscovered horses with high potential you're wrong, there are many powerful owners around, RR is a medium one that got very lucky due to Mullins eyes for spotting good horses. RR complained that a few years ago the prices for French horses went stupidly high, so he had to concentrate on Ireland, thats about when they discovered Faugheen and others. More powerful owners means small trainers will become even smaller in the talent pool they can obtain for their yard because the prices will go ridiculously big and the big owners will choose big established trainers.

As for RR taking his own horses on, that happens when they don't know how good they are, but when they have an idea of their relative form why would they take them on? It's true RR should grow a pair and reject Mullins plans of keeping his horses home when they should have prep runs(see Faugheen before Chelt), or take other owned-Mullins horses on when they compete in the festivals, but thats RR decision to listen to his trainer, and he would do it even if his horses were with other trainers.

As for competition, if the best horses would all meet every time, you wouldn't learn to appreciate horses that come in 2nd, 3rd, and people will start saying there's no competition at all. Its good that they only meet once or twice per season because it gives every horse the chance to be appreciated and gather some following and fans along the way.

if v and f were owned by jpm i think there is a more than reasonable chance they would have ran against each other - i think jpm would have relished it as much as the whole racing world

That would not be good for racing,it would be good for the jockey though!!!and could also be good for trainer and owner giving them a fair chance of 2 wins.
Personally I think that in this case he will want both in the Gold Cup if both have proved by then to have a good chance.That's just my opinion though,and if he  split them and had one in the Ryanair purely to try and win both races when they had both proved to be major GC contenders,well that for me would sum it up.

ccm - i am not saying he is wrong and i am not saying i dont understand his rationale -  i am saying his approach is not good for racing -

thanks arkle im out of here

May well have been different had Vautour been trained by someone else though,he would have been in the Arkle then I imagine.

JP is probably one of the best people this sport has ever had.......Arkle that is shameful!!

Bud its also true especially with some of the trainers he has

JP's money has clearly been very good for racing, but it's hard to defend some of the things you see.

so timtin who did annie power take on and when did vautour take faugheen on are you saying you would not have liked to see faugheen v vautour (not multiple times ) but just once
Annie Power is part of RR `lack of a pair` to overrule Mullins, I covered that, he would do it with/listen of any other trainer.

As for his own horses, there wasn't a need for F vs V, F form was superior at the end of their novice season and why not send one of them chasing? I would rather prefered seen Faugheen chasing because we know he stays and they knew he can jump fences as he was a pointer, he would've been a more likely GC candidate than Vautour is at this stage, but RR and Mullins keep mentioning that F had a back injury in his early days so that is more against my idea of seeing him jumping a fence.

I would accept Douvan argument for staying hurdling, for those who pushed for it, because he's a young horse and would've shaken the CH market if he stayed for that code but again RR would've done the same thing if they were split among other trainers. I don't think his problem is the spreading of horses around. His problem is that he got too lucky in a short period of time and he tries to keep his horses separated. Look at Giggis with their Don Poli and Don Cossack conundrum. They will probably never meet if Don fails to win the KG,and they aren't owned by RR. Look at P&C and Top Notch, they only met when their owners didn't knew which one was better, they'll only meet again in the CH only because (1) there isn't a 2m4f festival race and (2) they were too young to have been sent chasing. All owners want to keep their horses apart until there's no other option.

ok first of all i am not interested in judging his motives i am not st paul at the pearly gates - secondly if rr had owned jezki and mtoy maybe one of them would have stepped up in trip or gone novice chasing

thats fine timtin - personally i would have been excited by a clash between v and f in their novice season (if i am in a minority then thats fine) and send one chasing the year after. i am not going to tackle the whose form was superior as will completely derail the thread -

In most other sports there can only be one winner though... Everyone taking part with one prize at the end of it.

Racing is different... There are lots of big prizes, many as important as the other. So why not try and win as many of the big prizes as you can.