when jossies hill wins today?

funny tames lions

Will Mullins be willing to take on Ptit Zig? A better hurdler than any of them.

Even allowing for him needing the run, that was a bit disappointing. Ptit Zig is great stats wise, just worry about all his best form being on soft or heavy

ground sageform for ptit?

big horse jossies maybe just needed it seems to have needed it in the past

Don't know about the ground, you may have a point but unlikely to be fast on the first day of Cheltenham.

sageform
sageform 19 Dec 14 14:39 Joined: 15 Jun 01 | Topic/replies: 4,699 | Blogger: sageform's blog
Will Mullins be willing to take on Ptit Zig? A better hurdler than any of them.
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Ptit Zig was rated lower than both Vautour and Un De Sceaux over hurdle.

Nicholls has said zig only goes Arkle if testing. Dipper next target

will willie mullins be forced to run both vautour and un de sceaux in the arkle trophy?


I hope they both run in it, won,t happen though you have got to feel for  p townend aswell

Paul Townend does quite well tbf. Won over £5M in last 5 years. Not many NH jockeys have done that and he's still relatively young.

Un De Sceaux won't turn up in the Arkle. If he did he wouldn't get home anyway the way he tears off. And finally, fell in a donkey race at Thurles with no horse round him at the time.

^^^ yes he will vautour going 2.5

Nope. Why would you run your novice superstar in the JLT after he has just bolted up in a Supreme? Entered again in a 2 miler Boxing Day.

Do you know for definite that Vautour is going for the JLT howdi? I'd say it's a possibility but not a sure thing

Nope. Why would you run your novice superstar in the JLT after he has just bolted up in a Supreme? Entered again in a 2 miler Boxing Day.


Completely agree. I'd be shocked if Vautour didn't run in the Arkle.

People wind themselves up so much with Mullins and how he will shuffle his deck, but the easiest thing to do is back the horses in the races YOU think they should run in. Honestly think you'd be right 90% of the time - his placement decisions are surprisingly easy to work out. Just keep your ears shut and your eyes open IMO.

Wins the 2m Supreme.
Starts off in a 2m 1f novice.
Will run in a 2m novice on Boxing Day.
Arkle far more prestigious than JLT
Are looking at Champion Chase next season.

Arkle all day long esp as the talking horse stablemate won't turn up.

tomdeane. This is correct. It was so obvious that Champagne Fever would run in the Arkle and Felix the JLT last year. It was also completely obvious that UDS wasn't going to run in the Champion Hurdle and Annie Power was going World.

Vautour is their star novice. Ricci keeps going on about him. He won't give a flying fook about the JLT. The Arkle is the prestigious race.

Will run in the Arkle even if UDS does turn up I think.

You can even add they were thinking Champion Hurdle for Vautour but went chasing with him. Again, screams 2 miler.

No way Mullins will run Vautour v UDS at Cheltenham. UDS has zero chance of staying the JLT and would only go Arkle if something happened to Vautour cue same scenario as we have had with Hurricane Fly last year (Annie Power only runs if something happens to the fly).

Funny how people form opinions based on nothing.

None of us know how good UDS is,so spout off when we do is my advice.

Not until his connections put him in a race against either top 2m hurdlers or top 2m chases will we find out.

What do we know?
Hes bl00dy quick(maybe too quick for his own good?) jumps both hurdles and fences really well at speed,he stays a bit further than 2m so a CHurdle or Arkle should suit as he wont be stopping up that hill.
All his jump form is on soft ground, but he won a bumper by his customary 20 lengths or so on good/soft, so normal Tuesday ground at the festival should be fine.
Ruby intimated that this season the gloves are off with UDS,so I suspect we will be finding out pretty soon how good this horse is....I for one cant wait.
I don't think his owners will put up with another scenario we had last season, and why the heck should they?? They need to know more than anybody exactly what they have.

I know he landed on his arse in his first chase and Vautour never touched a twig.

I know he's running in yet another donkey derby today whilst Vautour is scheduled to run in a Grade 1 Novice.

I know UDS has zero Cheltenham Festival form which 9 of the last 10 Arkle winners had.

I know Vautour has ran in 3 Grade 1s and won em all

I know they haven't even ran UDS in a Grade 1

Seems to me the stable know which is one is better personally.

But you have no idea how good he is......even his jockey admitted he did not know!!

Yes, we know a bit more about Vautour,thats cos hes been campaigned differently.

The stable may well know,and what you say may well be right, but unlike you I will not judge a horse's capabilities till hes given the chance to show them.

buddeliea 20 Dec 14 07:59 Joined: 19 Mar 04 | Topic/replies: 10,683 | Blogger: buddeliea's blog


None of us know how good UDS is,so spout off when we do is my advice.

No one knows how good Vautour is.

Fair enough Buddelia but I'll personally be shocked if this turns up in the Arkle and at 5-1 he is right rank value.

No we don't know how good Vautour is, but im not having a pop at him.
They are both novice chasers,we wont know for a while exactly how good they are.

yes, I agree re the price, and the only bet ive had on the race is Josses Hill at 10's ages ago.
That don't look good right now....16 after yesterday

Keep the faith with that. He will run a hell of a lot better NTO

Ruby Walsh admits it will be a wrench to abandon Vautour in pursuit of even greater riches at Kempton on December 26.

With Champagne Fever and Faugheen in action in the William Hill King George VI Chase and in the Christmas Hurdle respectively, Walsh is unable to compete at the big Leopardstown meeting on the same day.

That means he cannot ride last season's Supreme Novices' Hurdle winner Vautour, who made a high-class chasing debut at Navan in November and runs in the Racing Post Novice Chase.

Walsh told the Irish Examiner: "It will literally break my heart to leave Vautour behind at Leopardstown.

"He is absolutely bombing right now."

Hope so mate, and yes I do think he will be a lot better as well, but I do have concerns re his jumping,bit high and careful, needs to improve to be a top 2m chaser.

Yeh,its no secret what they think of Vautour, and fair enough he does look a real goodun for sure.

Ruby Walsh, Champagne Fever & Un De Sceaux are the reasons Vautour will run in the JLT

Ruby will have no decent ride in the JLT if Vautour runs in Arkle.

Horses bred with stamina like Vautour (same sire as Sir Des Champs who won the JLT) and Champagne Fever better suited to stepping up in trip over fences. No doubt Mullins and team believe Champagne Fever would have won the JLT last season had he run in it.

Un De Sceaux looks made for the Arkle. Ruby will want to win on both.

Mullins gave soundings that Vautour would step up in trip in his table tour at beginning of the season

will good to see how vautour runs at christmas but for once i think we will see a mullins match in the arkle

valseur lido is the big unknown if his target becomes the jlt there is no way they will make vautour meet after all they are mullins 2 best novices...valseur lido is the key for me

Valseur Lido doesn't come into this as he's Giggenstown. Ruby doesn't ride so he'll want Vautour for JLT and UDS for Arkle.

so you think it doesn't make any difference they are his 2 best novices cv? imo they are

UDS won,t go to chelts imo

I think Harry makes a very good point actually. Doesn't matter that's it's Gigginstown. Will be hard to talk Rich Ricci into the JL T if it means taking on Valseur Lido IMO.

Still think VL will be an RSA horse though.

You pays your money, you takes your choice. I too think Valseur Lido will run in the JLT, as I believe Don Poli is their RSA horse. Bryan Cooper intimated as much in his recent podcast fro the Irish Field. When asked about Don Poli for the 4 miler, Cooper basically said he thought Don Poli had far too much class to be running in it and the RSA was a better option for him. He picked Wounded Warrior as a more likely NH Chase contender.

I find trying to work out who goes where from the Mullins yard a fascinating challenge, the outcome of which (as always) will be determined firstly by the fitness/form of the horses, owner/trainer politics and the state of the ground. Must be a head scratcher for WPM to keep O'Leary, Ricci and Wylie happy. None of them are where they are today by being shrinking violets.

valseur lido will probably run in rsa they took no prisoners in the drinmore

Vlaseur Lido is a Soft ground horse.

Truth is that most of the good horses trained in Ireland could be viewed to 'need' soft ground because that is all they ever run on! Arguably Valseur Lido's best 2 pieces of form over hurdles were on 'good to soft' over 2 miles at Cheltenham (behind Vautour) and Punchestown (behind Faugheen). Is he not more about speed than stayer?

He demolishes his rivals when it's proper soft though. I think he's much better on soft anyway so would be keen to avoid him for March until we get closer enough to ''guess'' the going..