Jonjo playing silly bugggers with More Of That again.

AFC wins this doing handstands

It's all about opinions but he won't win anything jumping like he's got diving boots on. Even in victory last year he was cumbersome and spent too much time in the air. Possible to get away with that on hock deep ground. On good? He'll be chasing shadows.

And he's had plenty of opportunities to show his worth. Beaten by Knockara Beau and an official rating of 157? No thanks.

Loads of horses from Gold Cup Friday have had a hangover from Championship races. Some of them haven't been seen since. None came out and ran well first up. Even Bob's Worth was about 3 stone off his normal self.

Think AFC's first couple of runs this season have to be discounted but then he's shown signs of getting back to his best. Been for a Binocular-esque retune at JP's gaff and then AP gets off More of That.

Huge doubts about the first two in the market for me. And I just cant get the image of the way AFC powered over the line in the potato race out of my mind. Compare that to Sir Des Champs at walking pace a bit later. I think its some animal but we haven't seen its true running yet this year (although the Cleeve was getting there). I've no worries about the ground, and think there's a good case for the horse.

afc the lay of the week donkey

I think you're right to a certain degree marychain. AFC is a very good horse imo, and if he jumped well he would probably win the WH. However, it looks to me that the back problems he's had have resurfaced. Until I see him jump a whole lot better than he has been, I think I have to oppose him.

I agree that the top two in the market need to be opposed though. More of That is interesting, but, as the OP states, Jonjo doesn't know what he's doing. I'm not sure how I'll approach the race yet.

Yes, it does seem strange (less so where this team are involved) that there is a doubt but absolutely no reason given as to why. As I said elsewhere as long he stumbles over a winner somewhere JP couldn't give a monkeys what the average punter thinks. Ludicrous the way he is lauded into the winners enclosure by the very same people he continually takes for a ride.

marychain

I take your point that some of the horses from that Friday ran poorly next time but that wasn't the case with AFC. He absolutely bolted up at Aintree on ground which seemed a fair bit softer than the official good to soft. I agree he won the Albert very well last season but there is both a question about what he beat and indeed to me he didn't jump slickly enough and won despite that jumping. On deep ground that isn't such an issue. On good ground it would very much be an issue and given his joint and back problems I'd imagine he won't enjoy Friday so much.

One thing I will concede is the puzzling aspect of McCoy getting off an animal rated better with any amount of improvement to come and which will have the ground in More Of That.

what did atc beat in them two races last season that looks like they could contend a world hurdle.

AFC ^

Brilliant win by Holywell trained by none other than Jonjo :o) No plot ET just a very good trainer having yet another Cheltenham winner.

I doubt if the likes of Gay Smith JP or dozens of other who have been sending horses to Jonjo for years would agree with you.

The fact a few of his owners like a punt why the heck would he tell you or anyone else what he's thinking? He trains for one of the biggest gamblers (very seldom these days) the game has ever seen and that makes his job very difficult. If he was ablbbermouth like you would like him to be he wouldn't be training for half the people he trains for.

I really don't know why your so fussed Jonjo has made it clear he thinks the horse is a very good animal but he knows if the real Big Bucks turns up he'll have to be and a lot more to win..........If he thinks it's waste of time he will say so and not run him

It would be ungracious of me not to congratulate Jonjo on another festival handicap winner today. Like any trainer I wouldn't expect him to be a "blabbermouth" especially about handicap plot horses. Championship horses are a little different. You can either train the horses to peak on the day or you can't. There's no margin for error as there is in handicaps. It's only an opinion but that opinion is backed up by the evidence in that he has plenty of big handicap winners but given the size of his operation and class of expensive recruits not that many championship races behind him.

Specifically on More Of That I don't see how he can give an opinion one way or another. He's shown he's a very good horse but he remains inexperienced having now been off nearly three months and he's yet to run over 3 miles. If you think that is a world hurdle preparation that's your right to hold that view.

Yeeeeehhhhhhaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.

well done - some animal.

No disrespect to McCoy but I really couldn't understand his logic and I must admit he had me doubting my sanity.

some beast

Geraghty showing McCoy up

Reckon if they stay over hurdles he might beat big Bucks record of 4 World Hurdles.

Created a nice price tho My Tent or Yours /More Of That last minute scares drift initially in market but get bet like no tommorrow come the day

surely chasing next year?

Nothing surprises in racing and he does have the look and likely scope to do so but at the end of the day he's won a championship race. Who's to say he couldn't run up a sequence? And who's to say that chasing may not go to plan as it didn't with Jonjo's Iris's Gift.

My gut feeling is that given it's JP and he likes to roll the eice if they think he's a possible gold cup horse they'll take the chance of going chasing in the autumn.

I hope they go chasing with him, now beginning to understand why AP said Jonjo could be the Champion Trainer within a couple of years, volume of winners is not a problem and now he has two horses (MOT and TDS) who look like they can compete successfully in the very best races.

Thinking about that some more. Wouldn't it be something to look forward to throughout next season if he and Annie are possible RSA horses? There'll be shiit and fur flying again as many argue Mullins should go for one of the shorter grade 1's.

with a horse of that ability I would be aiming higher than a sequence of world hurdles ffs

how about a sequence of Betfair, King George and Gold Cups?

The amazing thing is he's only seen a race course 5 times so if he jumps a fence we could be witnessing something very special.

that, plus the fact they need to find out how good he is over fences, can always go back to hurdling if it does n't work out - like Big Buck's did.

On a related point Judo it strikes me you've been following the game a fair time as I have and that sentiment is how I see things. The world hurdle still carries some of the lack of lustre of when it was a grade 2 accompanyment to the gold cup. Which is one of the reasons why I thought Annie Power should have had a champion hurdle campaign given that they delayed the chase campaign this year. Ricci can't be too unhappy with how Cheltenham has gone but I do think he'll forever wonder what if?

Big Buck's was perfectly fine over fences ffs, won a Grade 2 at Aintree as a 5 year old

in any other yard he would have challenging for Gold Cups

indeed Eeo

been some bad campaigning

Who knows how many gold cup's Big Buck's might have won? To me Nicholls used what happened in the Hennessy to swell his chances of winning distance staying races to keep the prize money flowing but if he didn't have Kauto, Denman and Neptune I don't think he would have gone back hurdling. There's a hierarchy and it leans towards chasing. The only race which even comes close is a champion hurdle. The stayers is a good race to win but a champion chase, a King George or Gold Cup are different class.

JP could go chasing with MOT and still have the favourite for World Hurdle with AFC next year.

It's a long way away but I can't see Curtis having the horse any better next year. Her horses are firing and the horse is now 7. I can't help thinking that something will come along and chin AFC even if both MOT and Annie go chasing.

not saying AFC will win next year, merely pointing out the considerations for the owner.

More Of That came from nowhere really this year so,yep, entirely possible there will be one or two improvers in the race next year. We might see a candidate or two tomorrow.

I'm pretty sure you saw one yesterday.

from the Neptune? History would suggest otherwise, very few come out of that race to even run in the World Hurdle the following year - Rule The World today admittedly, Reve De Sivola represented a previous Neptune renewal (outclassed) - Monksland could've been interesting I suppose.

Faugheen will go chasing next season.

So many good Neptune horses either go chasing or drop back for the champion. There's nothing set in stone but I'd be amazed if he dropped back in distance and maybe fences would be the making of him but only if he respects them more than his hurdles.

they don't seem bothered at all after today, i suppose he did drift like a barge...mccoy "maybe the ground and all that junk"

interesting to see what happens next, excited

At least they got their stories straight, they have always said he is a hard horse to get fit, and AP's explanation after the race made perfect sense following on from that.

This time last year he was winning handicaps in the 130s, so they could get away with him being half fit and racing him into shape when he's got 2 stone+ in hand. You can't do that starting out in a grade 2. Drift said it all really, needless to say I took him on with the wrong horse.

AP never seemed happy and the horse to my eye didn't seem to travel at all on the second circuit. I've backed it for the WH and don't mind it losing as probably not fit, heavy ground, jonjo not firing etc, but that was pretty poor. Just hope it's not carrying an injury

I read somewhere that jonjo said earlier this season regarding more of that "i just hope I can keep him together "or words to that effect , possibly not  be the easiest to train

You might be right Tucho regarding being hard to train and get fit. I was at Wetherby last yr for his reappearance and if you'd told me after that race that he'd win the world hurdle I'd have been calling for the men in white coats! As he's my biggest AP bet by far this year, I hope that's all it was today

He's probably trying to get him handicapped for The Pertemps Final

I think he'll have two serious rivals in Beat That and Briar Hill this year, and I'm hoping they can make big leaps forward. Lieutenant Colonel is one who is improving as well.

The more I look at last years World Hurdle field, with the exception of Annie Power, most were either old/coming back from injury and At Fishers Cross had been out of form all season.

It will be a fascinating race between the first three in the market, but it's far from a done deal imo (even before yesterdays race).

Get Barry G back on board

You have to be very worried how far medinas got beat today

If the horses are running as badly as they are at the moment (and More Of That was one of the first to really bomb out) how can a change of jockey make a difference? You might as well suggest that changing your shirt will cure a cold.

As long as he wins at Cheltenham, they wont be too downhearted.

As for Jonjo quotes, well i wouldn't pay any heed to them.

I think 4-1, even Ante Post is an e/w bet to nothing.

Good Luck.

Dont be surprised if not showing,come on Lt Colonel.

any idea when the weapon is back or any news on the horse?? cleeve hurdle?

stable improving by the day which is pleasing

can't have him a bet to nothing after last time. Looks like **** or bust to me!

This is my biggest winner of the festival so far so absolutely delighted to see Jonjo start to bang the winners in. Was beginning to get seriously worried

After his last run I would certainly be worried,but as you say at least his trainer seems to be getting back