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Cheltenham Festival
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I know it's early with 5 weeks to go till Day 1 but thought i'd start the thread given the mixed forecast for this week ahead and it seems to be roughly the same the week after judging by the BBC monthly forecast.
On saturday the Cheltenham Town manager described his clubs pitch in home game v Northampton as "unbelievably bad"
Maybe use the thread to post updates if anyone hears Claisse's utterings or if any posters live near the course....from memory I think Mr Eboue is one.
I'd imagine it's 'heavy' at the moment
On saturday the Cheltenham Town manager described his clubs pitch in home game v Northampton as "unbelievably bad"
Maybe use the thread to post updates if anyone hears Claisse's utterings or if any posters live near the course....from memory I think Mr Eboue is one.
I'd imagine it's 'heavy' at the moment
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I'd be amazed if it was good. They'll have to water it to makesure first day is Good-to-soft otherwise it will be firm up too much by Friday. Will be Good-to-soft at best!!
There's 3 main reasons why it won't be good
1) Its been so wet and there is no guarantee we won't get more rain
2) Even if the course dries out enough for the ground to be good Claisse will water until its g/s
3) Even if it is actually good ground they will call it good to soft.
1) Its been so wet and there is no guarantee we won't get more rain
2) Even if the course dries out enough for the ground to be good Claisse will water until its g/s
3) Even if it is actually good ground they will call it good to soft.
You're right sint.....it will be good to soft (or softer) first day even if they do have to water! Inconceivable that they would have to do so after the winter we have had but a few warmer dry days changes the ground dramatically - we'll know more by the weekend.
Read a great article the weekend on Cheltenham ground called the Trampoline effect.
Apparently with the water table at record high levels, what happens is that if there is a dry spell leading up to the festival the top 3-4 inches of ground
Dry up causing false good fast ground.
The real condition of the ground is dry crusty on top but very moist underneath this is called the trampoline effect and in effect it suits all horses.
You get fast race times because the horses are in effect bouncing of the surface.
The trouble starts if there is any rain during the festival because what that does is loosen the top so the rain gets in and connects the top with the moist below so in effect with minimal rain the ground quickly becomes heavy and testing !
I think this explains the year Flagship Uberalles ran 40 seconds slower the following day after a few hours of drizzle !
What the writer was trying to say only if it rains during the festival does it suit soft/heavy ground horses but more than that it makes the horses stamina
Of real importance when having a bet.
Of course if it carries on raining like it is none of the above will matter !
Apparently with the water table at record high levels, what happens is that if there is a dry spell leading up to the festival the top 3-4 inches of ground
Dry up causing false good fast ground.
The real condition of the ground is dry crusty on top but very moist underneath this is called the trampoline effect and in effect it suits all horses.
You get fast race times because the horses are in effect bouncing of the surface.
The trouble starts if there is any rain during the festival because what that does is loosen the top so the rain gets in and connects the top with the moist below so in effect with minimal rain the ground quickly becomes heavy and testing !
I think this explains the year Flagship Uberalles ran 40 seconds slower the following day after a few hours of drizzle !
What the writer was trying to say only if it rains during the festival does it suit soft/heavy ground horses but more than that it makes the horses stamina
Of real importance when having a bet.
Of course if it carries on raining like it is none of the above will matter !
Interesting squiggsy
That would also explain Tidal Bay's Arkle win - ground seemed to deteriorate between the first two races. McCoy chose Binocular in the first because of the ground but was outdone by JPM's other one in the race who preferred cut. There were a few heavy showers about but it looked as though the ground was far more testing than the first day "good to soft" we have been used to.
Also on Friday last year, Our Conor's comparative time was lightening fast when tied in with the rest of the day.
That would also explain Tidal Bay's Arkle win - ground seemed to deteriorate between the first two races. McCoy chose Binocular in the first because of the ground but was outdone by JPM's other one in the race who preferred cut. There were a few heavy showers about but it looked as though the ground was far more testing than the first day "good to soft" we have been used to.
Also on Friday last year, Our Conor's comparative time was lightening fast when tied in with the rest of the day.
Might also explain why almost all the horses from the 2013 Gold Cup and Albert Bartlett have really struggled for form and fitness this year
Apologies marychain dyslexia rules KO read that as Isnt it going to be good whatever happens!
agree with you
agree with you
Some forecasts suggest a bit of drizzle Thursday-Saturday which should hopefully mean good-to-soft at worst, but a couple of forecasts suggesting no rain (even the Countryfile forecast last night was basically dry and warm from Wednesday.
What I found amazing and really worried me is that yesterday morning Claisse said it had been heading to good-to-soft:
THE going at Cheltenham was heading towards good to soft on Sunday but with as much as 9mm of rain forecast before Monday morning, there is unlikely to be any official going change from soft in the immediate future.
Clerk of the course Simon Claisse said on Sunday afternoon: "There's no change, it was heading towards good to soft this morning but it's raining now. There's more rain forecast for tonight and we could get anywhere between 5-9mm into tomorrow."
Looking further ahead, he added: "There are bits and pieces of rain for the early part of the week, then it's turning dry from midweek onwards. The chase and hurdle courses are soft and the cross-country circuit is soft, heavy in places."
Given it was very soft on the turftrax map last Wednesday and it poured down all day on Friday (see comments on this thread) I was assuming that first thing Saturday morning it would have been verging on heavy. How it was then heading to good-soft by Sunday morning I don't know. It then rained heavily yesterday for several hours (unless I'm mistaken?) so again it must surely be nigh on heavy this morning. I went for my usual dog walk (in Northamptonshire) this morning and the fields and streams were the most flooded they have been all winter.
Squeaky bum time that's for sure.
What I found amazing and really worried me is that yesterday morning Claisse said it had been heading to good-to-soft:
THE going at Cheltenham was heading towards good to soft on Sunday but with as much as 9mm of rain forecast before Monday morning, there is unlikely to be any official going change from soft in the immediate future.
Clerk of the course Simon Claisse said on Sunday afternoon: "There's no change, it was heading towards good to soft this morning but it's raining now. There's more rain forecast for tonight and we could get anywhere between 5-9mm into tomorrow."
Looking further ahead, he added: "There are bits and pieces of rain for the early part of the week, then it's turning dry from midweek onwards. The chase and hurdle courses are soft and the cross-country circuit is soft, heavy in places."
Given it was very soft on the turftrax map last Wednesday and it poured down all day on Friday (see comments on this thread) I was assuming that first thing Saturday morning it would have been verging on heavy. How it was then heading to good-soft by Sunday morning I don't know. It then rained heavily yesterday for several hours (unless I'm mistaken?) so again it must surely be nigh on heavy this morning. I went for my usual dog walk (in Northamptonshire) this morning and the fields and streams were the most flooded they have been all winter.
Squeaky bum time that's for sure.
Hi
I noticed on the WeatherAction long range weather forecast by Piers Corbyn that he is predicting from the 10-12 March heavy downpours and travel disruption. I'm not for one moment saying this is a 100% situation and that he specifies the Cheltenham Festival in particular but you guys should keep in mind that the Jet Stream is stuck in a southerly track and any break for dry conditions is likely to be brief. The current BetFair market for the going conditions for the first race on Tuesday is geared for Good/Soft and is about 8/11, this price would appear to be wrong as the current state of the ground is already saturated. I'll keep you posted on more info regarding the track of the Jet Stream and any further info from Piers Corbyn.
I noticed on the WeatherAction long range weather forecast by Piers Corbyn that he is predicting from the 10-12 March heavy downpours and travel disruption. I'm not for one moment saying this is a 100% situation and that he specifies the Cheltenham Festival in particular but you guys should keep in mind that the Jet Stream is stuck in a southerly track and any break for dry conditions is likely to be brief. The current BetFair market for the going conditions for the first race on Tuesday is geared for Good/Soft and is about 8/11, this price would appear to be wrong as the current state of the ground is already saturated. I'll keep you posted on more info regarding the track of the Jet Stream and any further info from Piers Corbyn.
it should also be noted that a long range weather forecast (anything over 3 days) is basically an educated guess.
At the end of the day all punting is an 'educated guess'.
Piers Corbyn does forecasts for 12 months in advance, so he's obviously highly educated.
Claisse could call the ground GS for Day just so it appeases all trainers/participants but after the first race it could be changed to Soft based on times, jockey opinion.
Uncle, ring up Claisse and tell him you will bung him a few quis if he helps you out!
Uncle, ring up Claisse and tell him you will bung him a few quis if he helps you out!
Yeah, my world certainly revolves around Piers Corbyn!
after the first race it could be changed to Soft based on times, jockey opinion
The clock watchers normally think the ground is faster than it really is.
The clock watchers normally think the ground is faster than it really is.
Don't know about Cheltenham but we had over an inch since yesterday afternoon here in Somerset-we needed more rain of course
We had about half an inch yesterday and though expected to catch some heavy showers today, we have had very few and they certainly have not been heavy.
half an inch(is that just a guess?) was well more than expected.
A guess geoff m but after a drizzly morning, it rained persistently from early afternoon into the evening.......probably about 6 hours - I'm in Cheltenham close to the town centre, no more than 2 miles from the course. Was a fair amount forecast for today too in the form of heavy showers but we have largely missed those.
Latest update:
A DRY second half of the week at Cheltenham was still forecast but a going alteration may be a few more days off as conditions at the racecourse remained soft following a short burst of rain at the track on Monday morning.
Clerk of the course Simon Claisse said on Monday: "We had a little light rain this morning but a dry and bright afternoon. The going on the chase and hurdle courses remains soft. The cross-country course is soft, heavy in places.
"We are expecting some rain, not big quantities. There's maybe 7-11mm due between now and Wednesday, and then it's turning dry."
A DRY second half of the week at Cheltenham was still forecast but a going alteration may be a few more days off as conditions at the racecourse remained soft following a short burst of rain at the track on Monday morning.
Clerk of the course Simon Claisse said on Monday: "We had a little light rain this morning but a dry and bright afternoon. The going on the chase and hurdle courses remains soft. The cross-country course is soft, heavy in places.
"We are expecting some rain, not big quantities. There's maybe 7-11mm due between now and Wednesday, and then it's turning dry."
More heavy rain in Somerset this afternoon so I expect Wincanton to be desperate ground again on Thursday.
As I said last week good to soft is like finding money in the street. After the latest reports its now even easier I don't even have to bend down.Verging on good to soft this evening, very little rain today, much less then expected and with a more then sunny, spring like week forecast leading up to the festival ive no doubt it will be nearer the good mark then soft, in fact I doubt they ll be much soft in it at all but Chelt will NEVER let the supreme jump off on officially good ground even if that's what it is...good to soft in truth should be nearer 1-5 and im being serious. Expect the jockeys after the first couple of races to say its lovely safe jumping ground with a lush covering of grass and riding nearly good which I expect wed or thur to be officially....all the best.
The biggest certainty of the entire meeting is good to soft.
still soft on the old course
bit of rain forecast next few days, not huge amounts, then predominately dry until the festival
the ground will be lovely, be good to soft
bit of rain forecast next few days, not huge amounts, then predominately dry until the festival
the ground will be lovely, be good to soft
Cold start Minger but lovely day here in Cheltenham too. Due to get up to 10 degrees this afternoon. Precious little rain forecast by the weekend....hosespipes out on Sunday?
Thanks for the update ...deckchairs out....cue the plunge on good ground.
Monday 3 March—Sunday 9 March
A warmer end to the week
Monday starts the week with a mix of heavy, thundery showers in southern and central parts and more persistent rain over the far north of Scotland. With temperatures a little down on the seasonal norm these showers could have a wintry element, even to low levels - though I wouldn't rush out to buy a sledge just yet!
Moving through the week Tuesday and Wednesday at this stage appear to be promising days. Early morning fog and frost may be around first thing, but it will warm up fairly quickly with some sunny spells. Just the outside risk of a shower.
From Wednesday onwards there is some uncertainty in the forecast with the potential for a north-south split. For the southern half of the UK it looks as though pressure will steadily build; however this will present the risk of low cloud, mist and sea fog - even during the days. For the northern half the weather looks like it will remain a little more unsettled with some rain from time to time. The good news is for all areas it looks as though we will pick up a stream of warmer air - temperatures rising above the seasonal average.
Monday 10 March—Sunday 16 March
North / south split continues
The north-south split looks set to continue as we look further ahead in the forecast. With high pressure flirting with the southern half of the UK conditions are expected to be settled. Conversely, frontal systems are expected to become increasingly confined to northern England, Scotland and Northern Ireland bringing strong winds and further spells of wet weather
A warmer end to the week
Monday starts the week with a mix of heavy, thundery showers in southern and central parts and more persistent rain over the far north of Scotland. With temperatures a little down on the seasonal norm these showers could have a wintry element, even to low levels - though I wouldn't rush out to buy a sledge just yet!
Moving through the week Tuesday and Wednesday at this stage appear to be promising days. Early morning fog and frost may be around first thing, but it will warm up fairly quickly with some sunny spells. Just the outside risk of a shower.
From Wednesday onwards there is some uncertainty in the forecast with the potential for a north-south split. For the southern half of the UK it looks as though pressure will steadily build; however this will present the risk of low cloud, mist and sea fog - even during the days. For the northern half the weather looks like it will remain a little more unsettled with some rain from time to time. The good news is for all areas it looks as though we will pick up a stream of warmer air - temperatures rising above the seasonal average.
Monday 10 March—Sunday 16 March
North / south split continues
The north-south split looks set to continue as we look further ahead in the forecast. With high pressure flirting with the southern half of the UK conditions are expected to be settled. Conversely, frontal systems are expected to become increasingly confined to northern England, Scotland and Northern Ireland bringing strong winds and further spells of wet weather
Minger.I can tell you now DO NOT waste your money on good going.There is absolutely no way he will let it start with good ground.Even if he has to water.
Never mind the going, what about conditions for humans? Do we need thermal underwear like last year?
Bit far out to say mate but the portents are good. I confidently predict it will be warmer tha last year!
Your right....it was feckin Baltic.
Your right....it was feckin Baltic.
@Ramruna, yeah it was artic cold last champion hurdle day ending up having to drink endless quantities of mulled wine to stop my hands from freezing.
.
http://maps.turftrax.co.uk/latestgoingreport.asp?course=Cheltenham
http://maps.turftrax.co.uk/latestgoingreport.asp?course=Cheltenham
I walked around the outside of the racecourse late yesterday (Tuesday 4th)afternoon. The going was definitely soft, and the brooks were doing their job by taking away lots of water.
The ground staff were cutting the grass in the afternoon sun, and the track looked fantastic.
With the drying wind I reckon that if the rain stays away the going could be on the soft side of good on day one. That's only my opinion.
I'm going back there this weekend to check again.
The ground staff were cutting the grass in the afternoon sun, and the track looked fantastic.
With the drying wind I reckon that if the rain stays away the going could be on the soft side of good on day one. That's only my opinion.
I'm going back there this weekend to check again.
Popped in this morning when driving past. Did not walk course but the members lawn seemed as wet and sodden as it was on trials day.
Kevin O'Ryan on ATR this morning says Simon Claisse will be watering next week
he might have to water the new course but there is absolutely no chance that the old course will be watered
the ground yesterday was soft with a few good to soft patches, 6.0 on the going stick, bang on soft
there is light, patchy rain forecast over the next 2 days then a dry forecast in the run up to the meeting
will be good to soft start, bordering on good ground by the end of wednesday, probably water early to start thurs on good to soft
the ground yesterday was soft with a few good to soft patches, 6.0 on the going stick, bang on soft
there is light, patchy rain forecast over the next 2 days then a dry forecast in the run up to the meeting
will be good to soft start, bordering on good ground by the end of wednesday, probably water early to start thurs on good to soft
There has been no rain in Cheltenham this morning and latest forecast until lunchtime tomorrow gives 3/4mm maximum. Then dry and sunny from lunchtime tomorrow and very warm over the weekend. Course will dry out big time and I can see them watering before Tuesday.
Meant to be the possibility of drizzle and light showers around today and a definite narrow band of rain, which could be fairly heavy for an hour or so, tomorrow morning - then dry after that.
Think it will still be soft / good-to-soft in places until Sunday so should be good to soft all round for Tuesday morning. I can't see him watering before the meeting starts.
Think it will still be soft / good-to-soft in places until Sunday so should be good to soft all round for Tuesday morning. I can't see him watering before the meeting starts.
CHELTENHAM - Jump (Updated:05/03/2014 at 15:25:47)
Going
Soft, Good to Soft in places
(GoingStick: 6.0 on Wednesday at 14:00)
Weather
Predominantly dry with no more than 2 to 3mm of rain
over the next seven days.
Going
Soft, Good to Soft in places
(GoingStick: 6.0 on Wednesday at 14:00)
Weather
Predominantly dry with no more than 2 to 3mm of rain
over the next seven days.
Uncle puncle lay off now as I've urged you to do in other threads! You're right that Claisse won't water now but you seriously underestimate the drainage at Cheltenham. It changes by the day! Have a saver on good!
You're right that Claisse won't water now but you seriously underestimate the drainage at Cheltenham. It changes by the day! Have a saver on good!
It might be given as good Nutkins by the end of day 1 but 4 betting purposes you need to go with what Claisse will say not necessarily what it is.
It might be given as good Nutkins by the end of day 1 but 4 betting purposes you need to go with what Claisse will say not necessarily what it is.
The quality of the information coming out of the racecourse is indescribably poor. The Turftrax map on the website is from 3.30PM yesterday. The telephone update is actaully from Tuesday! I've always thought Claisse is a clown. This just confirms it.
festivalfanatic - that's a bloody disgrace.
At this time of year it's probably THE critical issue for anyone attending or punting at the Festival. People will shell out to hear a lot of drivel at Preview Eveniungs yet the racecourse can't be ar$ed to update us with known information in a correct and timely manner.
At this time of year it's probably THE critical issue for anyone attending or punting at the Festival. People will shell out to hear a lot of drivel at Preview Eveniungs yet the racecourse can't be ar$ed to update us with known information in a correct and timely manner.
Forecast predicting up to 17c for next week in the south. Ambre solaire here we come.
festival fanatic couldn't agree more.
In the age of Twitter, Facebook and 24 hour rolling news, you'd have thought the racecourse would be capable of doing us punters this one small favour.
Still, at £6.50 for a pork bap, they're parked up on easy street next to a machine that sh1ts gold aren't they?
In the age of Twitter, Facebook and 24 hour rolling news, you'd have thought the racecourse would be capable of doing us punters this one small favour.
Still, at £6.50 for a pork bap, they're parked up on easy street next to a machine that sh1ts gold aren't they?
Geoffm - Claise has posted on Facebook that if any danger of the ground getting better than GS he will water. Seems almost inevitable on the new course.
Minimal amount fallen between 7.00AM and now FA. Skies clearing and a nice spring day in prospect. This will be another net drying day and it looks like more of the same up until Tuesday.
interesting, four days from now and the excitement will have reached fever pitch. sounds like at worse today's weather will not have significant effect.
Sun out now as I type. The ground will be drier by the afternoon than it was yesterday.
Looks like that will be the last of the rain before it starts.
I think it is going to be absolutely perfect ground.
I think it is going to be absolutely perfect ground.
Mar 3, 2014 -- 3:47PM, wondersobright wrote:
still soft on the old coursebit of rain forecast next few days, not huge amounts, then predominately dry until the festivalthe ground will be lovely, be good to soft
4 full days to go until the first winner of the meeting, horse is called g__d t_ s_ft 
turftrax finally updated:
.
http://maps.turftrax.co.uk/latestgoingreport.asp?course=Cheltenham
.
http://maps.turftrax.co.uk/latestgoingreport.asp?course=Cheltenham
Drying conditions were evident once more on Friday at Cheltenham where the official going was changed to good to soft, soft in places, from soft, good to soft in places.
Clerk of the course Simon Claisse even raised the possibility of watering the New Course used on Thursday and Friday.
He said: "We have had a glorious day, sunny, warm and windy, with temperatures at 15C. It's the first time it's been good to soft since the Friday of our December meeting.
"We might get a little drizzle over the next couple of days but beyond Monday there is no rainfall forecast at all, with temperatures of 14C and 15C throughout the week.
"We might need to give consideration to watering the Thursday and Friday track, but we will take it day by day."
The cross-country course was soft, heavy in places.
Clerk of the course Simon Claisse even raised the possibility of watering the New Course used on Thursday and Friday.
He said: "We have had a glorious day, sunny, warm and windy, with temperatures at 15C. It's the first time it's been good to soft since the Friday of our December meeting.
"We might get a little drizzle over the next couple of days but beyond Monday there is no rainfall forecast at all, with temperatures of 14C and 15C throughout the week.
"We might need to give consideration to watering the Thursday and Friday track, but we will take it day by day."
The cross-country course was soft, heavy in places.
On good at 11-2 ,they will prob water ,but could be GOOD ,GOOD TO SOFT come tuesday ,or at least i hope it is 
That would be a shame casemoney if the ground is Good ,Good to Soft in places as you will have done your dough
^ If it's 'good, good to soft in places' he wins the bet.
It might be good ,good to soft in places.
But you get paid on what Claisse says not what it is.
1/3 he gets wrong
But you get paid on what Claisse says not what it is.
1/3 he gets wrong
It was officially 'good' just 2 years ago so all these people who say he won't ever call it good are talking BS.
It looks destined to be good ground now, but I'll be surprised if he doesn't call it "good to soft, good in places."
Warm, sunny and windy today. Turftrax graphic will have changed again since yesterday. I wouldn't be at all surprised if there is some selective watering of the old course on Monday.
Claisse just been interviewed on C4 racing. Said it's holding on to its moisture well. Envisages good to soft, good in places by Tuesday, and is happy with that. He said it is 'highly unlikely' he will water.
Didn't rule out watering the new course, if it stayed dry until the back end of the festival, but that seemed to be it.
Looks like has has it spot on to me. Also said it is the best coverage of new grass he has seen in the fourteen years at the course.
Didn't rule out watering the new course, if it stayed dry until the back end of the festival, but that seemed to be it.
Looks like has has it spot on to me. Also said it is the best coverage of new grass he has seen in the fourteen years at the course.
Id like to bet winning jockey 1st race says GOOD good to soft ,Unfortunately that is not the case
he will do case, but this market is what the going is described as by claisse prior to the 1st
interesting the going stick reading from yesterday was 5.8 (soft side of good to soft), tallies with the comment that the ground is retaining the moisture quite well
will defo dry out by tuesday - plenty of good in the usual places - but good to soft description
interesting the going stick reading from yesterday was 5.8 (soft side of good to soft), tallies with the comment that the ground is retaining the moisture quite well
will defo dry out by tuesday - plenty of good in the usual places - but good to soft description
Interesting going stick reading yesterday 5.8 and hes calling it good to soft yet the meeting started on soft(gd sft in places) ground last year with a reading of 6.0!!
So as stated wonder still on the soft side of gd to soft
So as stated wonder still on the soft side of gd to soft
nick walking course tomorrow be interesting to see what he has to say ..
Henderson just now on the question watering "Why should the good ground horses be penalised just because they want to slow it down? It's wrong." Couldnt have put it better myself Hendo!
latest turftrax map
.
http://maps.turftrax.co.uk/latestgoingreport.asp?course=Cheltenham
.
http://maps.turftrax.co.uk/latestgoingreport.asp?course=Cheltenham
Mr Henderson is walking the course tommorow ,in probably 18 degree sunny heat, lets wait till after he walks the course 
Top trainers outline ground hopes
Last Updated: March 8 2014, 19:39 GMT
Nicky Henderson and Paul Nicholls have both expressed their hopes that no watering will be necessary at Cheltenham before the Festival kicks off on Tuesday.
The ground was reported to be good to soft on Saturday, with the cross country course soft in places and a predominately dry forecast to look forward to.
Both Henderson and Nicholls believe the Cheltenham groundstaff should hold off on watering until at least the end of the first day, when the jockeys have had chance to assess how the track is riding.
Henderson said: "I do sincerely hope they don't water. I think it will be a tragedy if they do.
"Let nature take its course and if nature says it's good ground, let them run on good ground and let the good ground horses have their day.
"It cannot possibly be good to firm by Thursday. I'm going to put a horse in the back of my car tomorrow and I'm going to take him to Cheltenham and ride him in front of (clerk of the course) Simon Claisse and they will make a good print, I promise you.
"It might walk good to a lot of people, but until you gallop a horse on it, you will not know how it will ride.
"I don't think you can even think of watering until the boys have told them after day one. It's the most dangerous thing you can do.
"Why should the good ground horses be penalised just because they want to slow it down? It's wrong!"
Nicholls echoed Henderson's sentiments and thinks it is unlikely the ground will get too quick after a very wet winter.
He said: "I spoke to Simon (Claisse) at length about it last night and his concern is that it might dry out after the first two days.
"He was worried about whether he waters this weekend to make sure it doesn't (dry out) rather than water later in the week, but that's a fair gamble to take because it has been so wet.
"If it is just a little bit on the quicker side, it is bound to be safe ground and I told him that if they do have to water because it does get that quick, then I'd be very, very surprised."
Last Updated: March 8 2014, 19:39 GMT
Nicky Henderson and Paul Nicholls have both expressed their hopes that no watering will be necessary at Cheltenham before the Festival kicks off on Tuesday.
The ground was reported to be good to soft on Saturday, with the cross country course soft in places and a predominately dry forecast to look forward to.
Both Henderson and Nicholls believe the Cheltenham groundstaff should hold off on watering until at least the end of the first day, when the jockeys have had chance to assess how the track is riding.
Henderson said: "I do sincerely hope they don't water. I think it will be a tragedy if they do.
"Let nature take its course and if nature says it's good ground, let them run on good ground and let the good ground horses have their day.
"It cannot possibly be good to firm by Thursday. I'm going to put a horse in the back of my car tomorrow and I'm going to take him to Cheltenham and ride him in front of (clerk of the course) Simon Claisse and they will make a good print, I promise you.
"It might walk good to a lot of people, but until you gallop a horse on it, you will not know how it will ride.
"I don't think you can even think of watering until the boys have told them after day one. It's the most dangerous thing you can do.
"Why should the good ground horses be penalised just because they want to slow it down? It's wrong!"
Nicholls echoed Henderson's sentiments and thinks it is unlikely the ground will get too quick after a very wet winter.
He said: "I spoke to Simon (Claisse) at length about it last night and his concern is that it might dry out after the first two days.
"He was worried about whether he waters this weekend to make sure it doesn't (dry out) rather than water later in the week, but that's a fair gamble to take because it has been so wet.
"If it is just a little bit on the quicker side, it is bound to be safe ground and I told him that if they do have to water because it does get that quick, then I'd be very, very surprised."
latest report 12.45 today...
5.9 on going stick, ground on main track good to soft all over, not a single patch of good anywhere
no rain forecast this week, tomorrow lots of cloud, much cooler than today, light winds
ground for tuesday will be absolutely lovely, be like a carpet, and called good to soft, good in places
5.9 on going stick, ground on main track good to soft all over, not a single patch of good anywhere
no rain forecast this week, tomorrow lots of cloud, much cooler than today, light winds
ground for tuesday will be absolutely lovely, be like a carpet, and called good to soft, good in places
Let's hope by Thursday
Plenty of good about !
Than it's down to the trainers to walk the course
Find that magic carpet strip!
Plenty of good about !
Than it's down to the trainers to walk the course
Find that magic carpet strip!
2nd update today 3pm
still good to soft all over on main track, going stick reading given out at 6.4
first good patches might be appearing by end of tomorrow near 2nd last hurdle and near turn in back straight, though totally different day tomorrow forecast compared with today and 6.4 isn't good side of good to soft so may even be status quo by end of play tomorrow
still good to soft all over on main track, going stick reading given out at 6.4
first good patches might be appearing by end of tomorrow near 2nd last hurdle and near turn in back straight, though totally different day tomorrow forecast compared with today and 6.4 isn't good side of good to soft so may even be status quo by end of play tomorrow
There should be no excuses on account of the ground but it will ride much quicker than most they have been racing on during the past 3 months. This is only a problem for horses that need it proper soft. The best horses will strut their stuff on this.
It is still dry, but it is not warm. Light chilly easterly blowing in my back garden.
Overcast probably a good thing TS. Claisse won't want it to sry out much more before tomorrow.
good to soft it is then... weighed in but im glad that is over and we can get on with the horses. Claisse on ruk live 1 minute ago it is good to soft and no real areas of good with it being slightly overcast today. we will jump off at 130 tmrw on good to soft all round.
claisse on RUK just called it good to soft all over on main track
hinted ground near 2nd last hurdle is edging towards good but will probably remain good to soft all over for tomorrow, maybe add good in places before the off
good to soft weighed in
hinted ground near 2nd last hurdle is edging towards good but will probably remain good to soft all over for tomorrow, maybe add good in places before the off
good to soft weighed in
We know he will call it good to soft but will it be quicker than that 
just had a photo sent to me from the course - the very green striped grass & course look amazing!
Officially 'good to soft, good in places' - bankruptcy avoided.
first 4 races all under standard today, 2m hurdle record broken twice....
Ground must have been at least Good, not Good to Soft today?
Surely Claisse will turn on the taps tomorrow night on the New Course?
Ground must have been at least Good, not Good to Soft today?
Surely Claisse will turn on the taps tomorrow night on the New Course?
got the ground totally wrong, timed the first the myself and it was 3.49.
still felt that was give in the ground, maybe the horses are getting faster
still felt that was give in the ground, maybe the horses are getting faster
I presume you chaps weren't notified that the times are recorded differently which will give an impression of it being faster than it is?
the differing "methodology" of recording times would be nowhere near enough to make up the difference between varying types of ground between Good and Good to Soft.... or Good to Soft and Soft....
the different methology in times made around 3.5s difference to the 2m hurlde race
and also the arkle. not so much difference to the 3m chase race where they pass that
pole right after the tapes up, anyway i'm using my own hand times for this year and I make
it spot on good ground.
and also the arkle. not so much difference to the 3m chase race where they pass that
pole right after the tapes up, anyway i'm using my own hand times for this year and I make
it spot on good ground.
Agree Stevie.
Definitely good ground.
How they can give out the "new" times and then say its a track record is ridiculous.
Definitely good ground.
How they can give out the "new" times and then say its a track record is ridiculous.
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