Flemenstar - Trainer Change ??

Gone to Tony Martins

One paced over rated yak,Who cares where it goes it won't win against top 2 milers and doesn't get 3miles and over 2m4f i'd take Cue Card/Benneficient et all against it everytime.
Jumps well though.

I love this horse

Think hes been campaigned badly and ridden badly.
Change will do him good imo, and if hes kept to 2m races,he will imo produce consistent good form.
If I knew he were sticking with 2m,he would interest me in any race.

^
Amen to that, point and shoot and get that brilliant jumping going.

not that one paced beat gold cup 2nd

FLEMENSTAR could be on the move to Tony Martin with owner Stephen Curran unwilling to confirm the three-time Grade 1-winning chaser will be returning to trainer Peter Casey.

Rumours are rife that Flemenstar will be joining Martin for the new campaign and, while Curran would not comment on whether that was the case, the fact he could not guarantee the eight-year-old would be in the care of Casey suggests all is not well in the camp.

Curran said: "There are rumours going around everywhere - I've heard them myself. But no decision has been made. I won't be deciding anything for another three or four weeks.

"I have the horse here and he's been in training with me for a little while. I can't keep him myself because I have no licence."

Curran was keen to stress how ill Flemenstar was last year and believes the horse is lucky to be alive.

He added: "The vets will tell you how sick the horse was last year. He had a temperature of 102F. We are lucky to still have the horse at all. He was very, very sick."

Although Flemenstar is currently in Curran's care, that is not unusual. He did not arrive back in at Casey's Stamullen yard until September last year.

Curran said: "We always keep the horse here until a few weeks before he's due to race. We mind him ourselves and that's the way we've always done it. We have to be careful with him this year."

Casey, who shot into the limelight following his colourful comments after Flemenstar's first Grade 1 success in the Arkle Novice Chase at Leopardstown in January last year, remains in the dark.

He said: "I've heard nothing. I don't know whether he is coming back to me or not.

"The horse is still with Stephen. Last year he came back to me in September and started off in the second week of November at Navan. I was planning on starting him back in the same race [Fortria Chase] this year and taking in the John Durkan at Punchestown before heading for the Dial-A-Bet at Leopardstown over Christmas. But we'll just have to see what happens."

Flemenstar has won eight of his 14 starts for Casey, including Grade 1 wins during a hugely successful novice chase campaign in the Irish Arkle and the Powers Gold Cup at Fairyhouse. His sole success at the top level last season came in the John Durkan Chase at Punchestown, where he beat Sir Des Champs.

Martin was unwilling to comment when contacted about the possibility of Flemenstar joining his team.

The speculation reflects the renaissance of the trainer's career highlighted by high-profile successes with Benefficient and Ted Veale at the Cheltenham Festival, Dark Crusader in York's Melrose Stakes and his eight-winner haul at the Galway festival.

Flemenstar has had a wind operation since finishing 24 lengths behind Sprinter Sacre in the Melling Chase at Aintree in April and, should he join Martin, the trainer would be faced with the dilemma of whether to step him up to three miles or stick to campaigning him over shorter distances.

Try get a grasp on the facts before spouting shíte about the horse.

There must be nothing as annoying in horse racing as an interfering owner. Knows more that the trainer, always has an excuse ready! The horse is good, but not great. Get over it!!

I doubt he will now scale the heights he maybe could have done if he had been in better hands and campaigned more sensibly but given that 3 miles, especially in very soft mid-winter ground, is obviously too far for him his run in the Lexus where he was utterly outclassing Sir Des Champ and First Lieutenant until his stamina gave way on the run in shows he was/is very much out of the top drawer.

Confirmed, Tony Martin...crack on

Would be great to see him in the Tingle Creek and/or the King George but I don't hold out much hope.

cant em wanting to take on sprinter acre again over 2m no point ! he looked all over the winner untill a few 100 yards when chinned close home by tidal bay and sir deschamps in heavy going in the irish hennesey , think he would get 3 mile  well enough on  soft ground on a flat track so the king george  would be ideal imo(although i am bias having backed him for the kg) a brilliant jumper would be some sight flying the kempton fences, stable alo have beneficent who shaped a though he would get further when winning the jewson he could be their gold cup horse if he continues proggresing .

There must be nothing as annoying in horse racing as an interfering owner. Knows more that the trainer, always has an excuse ready! The horse is good, but not great. Get over it!!


I think this is hitting the nail on the head. Are we really to believe he nearly died last year but was capable of winning very good races and then coming to Aintree in April? Sounds like absolute nonsense to me. Shame as he's a lovely, likeable horse, but I'm almost against him doing well because of the owner, who does always have an excuse and yet always seems ready to spout the hyperbole when he wins.

If he sticks to 2m he could have a sensational year in Ireland but talk of him going well against Sprinter Sacre is absolute lunacy. He wouldn't see which way Sprinter went.

yeah how dare owners have the temerity to tell the trainer what they expect or want?

I had a horse with David Nicholson and he was exactly like that, rude, non communicative and downright offensive, took us all over the country and never let the handbrake off but didn't tell us till we were in the fecking paddock after travelling up from London/Kent to see it run

then when asked "when are you gonna let the handbrake off?", turns bright red and screams "it'll come off when I fecking say it comes off, alright?" He was lucky he didn't get his fecking head ripped off I can tell you. We soon moved to Pipe and the experience was chalk and cheese

Yeah, NOTHING worse than an interfering owner ffs

There are of course exceptions, but I think most trainers know a heck of a lot more than their owners do...

maybe so don't mean that the owner, who pays the bills, can't have a say

Pipes yard bent over backwards to keep us informed (horse had two separate whole seasons off with injury), made sure races planned suited us if we intended to go and watch the horse run (I went every time) and pretty much made it a pleasure to be in their yard, could not praise them more and we did not interfere at all

but when you lose trust or start to suspect things are not as they seem then the owner has every right to have their say

As for trainers knowing more than owners, well I've told the story of this event before. I had half of a horse with Ian Williams, we went all the way to Salisbury for a race and when we got in the paddock he told us we were 'a near certainty'  and that we should have our maximum ew.  I had already studied the race and told him we had no chance and gave him a short list of three that we could not beat. Ours finished 7th beaten about 12 lengths and my short list finished 1st, 2nd and 4th of 14. Some owners may not know much and some trainers may know nearly everything but it's not always that way.

Had horses in Cumani's and Hanbury's in the 90s and those two are the best judges of form you could ever meet

Interesting to hear that about Hanbury and Cumani. I agree with you entirely, and think owners should be accommodated, but I just took a real dislike to the way Flemenstar was campaigned last term (and the way the stories surrounding his wellbeing and targets kept changing). I of course don't know this for sure, but would bet that it was mostly down to the owner wanting him to do differently to what the trainer (who, for all that he was called a few names, did a fine job with this horse) thought was best for him.

If they campaign him over two to two and a half miles and keep him away from Sprinter Sacre and Cue Card then he could have a great year.

I am yet to be convinced about Flemenstar and do not have a top class rating for him yet, so it's a watching brief

The horse deserves to be judged on what he achieves going forward,now he will hopefully be trained and campaigned properly and according to his strengths.Hes a bold jumper and will appreciate a fast paced 2m imo,and if he takes on SS and jumps like he can I would expect a good race.
Of course he stays further,but I would love it if they gave 2m a right good go.

Owners pay the bills and every right to do what they like . Feel sorry for the previous trainer as he's a nice guy.
Why settle for second best ? Owner should have sent him to the best Irish trainer and ridden by the best jockey around, Mullins and Walsh.
Love the horse and hope he has a good season.

Bit of an underwhelming cone back.

Didn't jump anywhere near as well as he can, so jury out for now.  May come on a tonne for it though

*come back

Difficult to place in the big races now I'd have thought.