That Champion Hurdle was a bit of a joke

Fair enough Navel, but i'm one of these folk who uses Cheltenham festival form as a guide to a horses talent. I'm not really one for taking horses from different years and making comparison, but as it has been brought up i think Istabraq would have good HF off the bridle from a good bit out, then would have finished him off. Hurricane wouldn't have been able to live with the quickening of pace in good running ground. I don't know what would have happened in ireland. I do think everything suited HF in the CH just there, in terms of everything he needed to go right just about did. Darlan passed away, ROR used first time blinkers, Grandouet fell and a bit of deadness in the ground took the kick out of the ground that could have had him beat seen as he was one of the first off the bridle. I don't want to take too much away from the Fly, but lets see what happens if there is good ground at Punchestown. I'm sticking with Grandouet, as for all his faults he will be very capable of winnign if he gets it right, and his price ought to be reasonable enough to back. Maybe 7/2.

I can't see just the ONE variable (faster ground) getting him beaten at Punchestown, as he can still win at Cheltenham with (in my view) THREE things against him!

I have to be honest and I didn't know what to expect from Hurricane Fly in the Champion Hurdle as I had a sneaky suspicion that in last year's defeat he 'remembered' going through the pain barrier in winning it the previous year - there didn't seem to be any valid excuses at all, and I thought it was possible that the Montjeu 'thinking' traits eventually caught up with him as an 8yo last season.

He's put that 'semi-theory' to bed somewhat, but it's not completely dispelled...next year he'll be 10 and has three new youngsters to fend off in Our Conor, The New One & My Tent Or Yours, as well as the usual suspects - I think that'll prove to be a bridge too far, but if he can do so, he'll be worthy of inclusion with the greats of the 70's!

PS - we all rate Festival form as the benchmark but that shouldn't detract from superb performances elsewhere...great horses overcome adversity (like Frankel in the Champion Stakes) and looking further back, how can we say Wayward Lad wasn't the same horse at Cheltenham, when it was only race fitness (and divine intervention) than prevented him from beating Dawn Run?

I've never seen a jockey more gutted than Graham Bradley when he was interviewed after that race

I think HF v Istabraq would be a mismatch. Istabraq ran in the weakest ever era for hurdling and no-one can tell me a single top class two miler he ever beat because there wasn't one. Not his fault, of course, but his Champion Hurdles were indescribably poor. Very few defeats, of course, but those he did suffer, at the hands of Pridwell and Limestone Lad (would have been by Moscow Flyer, except for that one falling at the last, and while he was a top chaser, he was never a top hurdler)show a fallibility that HF hasn't. One of his greatest assets is that, while in his early days, he used to win hanging off the bridle, nowadays he has shown he can battle with the best of them as well.
It escaped many, but his achievements were validated yet again by Solwhit sauntering home in the Stayers'. "He's only beaten up Solwhit again" used to be the cry but that one doesn't get beaten by too many himself.
Having watched all the top hurdlers since 1970, my view is that HF would have been a match for any hurdler in Ireland but, likeNavel-Gazer, he doesn't seem to be at his best at Cheltenham. And yet he was still good enough to beat last year's winner, last year's Triumph winner, and the year before's Triumph winner (with another previous champion further behind)with some ease, despite looking in trouble at half way and hitting the front "2 furlongs too soon" (Ruby Walsh). A great, great horse, and what a prospect next season will be if he can stay on top of his game.

ive seen them all Istabraq was a great horse Hurricane a bloody good one.

walos

I thought it was a very good race. I'd backed Hurricane Fly despite being let down by him last year, as I thought his form was consistently at a higher level than the other runners in the race.

At the top of the hill, and on the descent, I thought I'd done my money again, but then The Fly came through the field to win. It was exciting, and of course special to me for having backed the winner again. Excellent horse, as his record suggests.

Graeme the racist. Rangers fan NAP.

Strikes me as more of a Celtic fan definitely. Nap.

People seem to forget about Fly.

He is only the 3rd 9yo to win the race in the last 30 years and only 2nd to ever regain his crown. To try crab the horse when he won despite the age and stats is comical.

His glory years like most 2 mile hurdlers is in the 6-7yo range. He was injured as a 6yo when nobody will argue he is a better horse than Binocular.

Anyway, this is all after the fact debate. The debate that mattered was the one prior to the race. The horse is in the record books now and could end the season with a record breaking 17 grade 1's from 20 races.

All the negativity that has eminated from mostly English media, the people queuing up to knock the horse. Oh how sweet it is to have him shove it all in your faces AGAIN. Racists like Graeme mocking Irish for backing our SUPERIOR horses. Oh does it get any sweeter?

No, it doesn't.

Hurricane Fly my boy. Job done. Report home to base.

Racing Post ratings would disagree he was better than Binocular at 6, Bino was rated 6lbs ahead of him at that stage, and still 1lb ahead after HF's first CH win.  So not that clear cut at all.  Bino was brilliant at his best,  HF has just been more consistent.  I'd concur with that.

not sure anyone is knocking him.

Fair enough JOCI, but i'd really like to see ROR and Grandouet go over there and have a go. Conor can you stop following me about, or i will start on you back. You may act and talk like a hard man darts player with 10 rings and 20 bracelets, but i just looked at the video of you in Vietnam, and you are built like a rake and look like a bread and bean munching student. Now piss off twiggy before i wake up and start aiming at you.

You're right Howdi, nobody was. However, as soon as i mention anything remotely Irish, Conor(CVByrne) gets excited, car alarm sensors go off in his head and his ears start to flap around. The point was questioning the quality of the race, and whether or not HF would have won if it was run differently and on a better surface.

lads move on its aintree soon and summer

thieveslikeus 23 Mar 13 16:58
Racing Post ratings would disagree he was better than Binocular at 6, Bino was rated 6lbs ahead of him at that stage, and still 1lb ahead after HF's first CH win.  So not that clear cut at all.  Bino was brilliant at his best,  HF has just been more consistent.  I'd concur with that.

No offence but who gives 2 sh*ts about Racing Post Ratings? It's simply a persons opinion at that time. People had the belief Irish form was bad back then. Look at Fly and Solwhit now. Then Thousand Stars short defeats in 2 Aintree Hurdles.

Is there REALLY a 'racist' angle where it comes to top-class horses?
I don't give a shít and although I'm English, I like to see the BEST horses prevail, and I'd have thought any racing aficionado would do likewise...I was roaring on Black Caviar at Ascot

You said NOBODY would argue Bino was better - the RPRs say he was, I say he was, so that is two people who would argue it.   I was merely correcting your obvious error driven by your usual arrogance CV Byrne.

There's no such angle. I back loads of Irish horses, and get called an anti Irish racist on the same day i got my Bobby Sands book from Amazon.

I mean Binocular has been totally out classed by Fly all the times he's met him. So it's not hard to believe had Fly not had problems missing 2 festivals he would have won that Champion hurdle. Especially as he's thumped Go Native all the time and he was fav.

As 6yos, the official handicapper also had Bino 6lbs clear, Stop Watch 10pts clear and Raceform time figures were faster too.  So that's 5 people who would argue Bino was the better horse at 6.  Is just as easy to argue that if the 172 rated Bino hadn't missed the 2011 CH that he would have won that one too as HF only beat the pretty average Peddlers Cross that day.   Bino has of course peaked earlier and gone backwards since, not surprising with a French bred?

Graeme83 23 Mar 13 17:01 Joined: 21 Sep 07
Conor can you stop following me about, or i will start on you back. You may act and talk like a hard man darts player with 10 rings and 20 bracelets, but i just looked at the video of you in Vietnam, and you are built like a rake and look like a bread and bean munching student. Now piss off twiggy before i wake up and start aiming at you.

Act like a hard man?? You called me a Hobbit first of all. Now some bean munching student. WTF you on about?? You really are some ingrate. I'm just slating your garbage after the fact opinions. You re clearly a vile piece of work & act like it on here. Anti Irish Racist too.

I have strong opinions, I post em sometimes on here and they need to be wrapped in strong words as this is betfair fourms. Unmoderated. I do have the advantage of being right though with my strong opinions.

You unfortunately don't have that luxury.

Why do you keep talking about ratings? If ratings mean who wins every grade 1 what's the point in having them?

He only ever got a proper rating when he won the Champion Hurdle.

Anyway it's all speculation about woulda won what. Just opinions. We'll never know.

I'm saying that the opinions of the ratings were that he was behind Bino at 6 and that the official handicapper, RPRs, Stop watch, Raceform Times and me - i.e. 5 different people - still had him behind Bino after winning the CH in March 2011, a race Bino missed.  Of course we'll never know, it is you who claimed we did...

christ al'mighty

I'm just saying that it's utterly daft to quote other peoples opinions to prove a point. RPRs, times etc.. is all from that time. Not to mention the fact that Hurricane Fly was injured, as in couldn't race to ever get a bloomin rating. Never made a Cheltenham festival to get a good RPR rating.

Even so all these ratings were created prior to the information we have now which is Fly beating Binocular 4 times, 3 times by miles.

So armed with the information we have now it's easier to surmise Fly would have had a very strong chance of winning in 2010 had he been fit.

My god I hate these forums.

By: This user is online. CVByrne
Date Joined: 14 Mar 06 Add contact | Send message When: 23 Mar 13 16:35 Joined: Date Joined: 14 Mar 06 | Topic/replies: 3,654 | Blogger: CVByrne's blog
Graeme the racist. Rangers fan NAP.


no that would be me...

I'm stuck as a Villa fan Damn you Paul McGrath.

Can't say the season hasn't been eventful

used to see mcgrath up brum on a sat night at a few after hours clubs fcuk me he could drink....

Understatment of the year

I remember Italia 90 Irish team. McGrath, Townsend, Houghton, Staunton. Cemented Villa in my Heart. Been over 2 decades of ups and downs since then to say the least. Fergie time still grates

Harch agree with what you say. It is crazy for punters to be biased when assessing a race. The anti Irish form thing must have cost numerous punters a packet this year. In this business one must never let the heart rule the head.

I find it difficult to believe that ANY knowledgeable & sensible punter would have such a juvenile attitude when the money's down...it's rank stupidity!
Maybe the mugs do it, but anyone that considers themselves as a fan of the sport, surely does not have such an outlook.

So much can be learned from the Daily Mail readers on here. Not being convinced by the Champion Hurdle makes me an anti-Irish racist by the Irish fool(CVByrne) who called me a 'stupid English pryck', even though i'm Scottish. Now we have Arklearkle stating that i had an anti Irish angle throughout the festival because i have shared my opinion on the Champion Hurdle. Of course, Conor Byrne is one of these wee activists behind the keyboard who scream 'racism' everytime you even mention Ireland. What a Oirish moron. 

Graeme you stated "now we have Arklearkle stating that I had an anti Irish angle throughout the festival". Could you please enlighten me as to when I said that.

Grandouet going over 2m4f to see if he is Champion Hurdle standard ,Chemical been hitting the bottle again no doubt.


http://www.sportinglife.com/racing/news/article/465/8591644/exciting-line-up-for-liverpool-hurdle

Graeme - You know what the Irish are like though

I'm Scottish and I know that HF is the best since Istabraq

Wonder what would happen if some of those since Istabraq met each other at their best.
eg:The likes of Rooster Booster,Binocular and Hfly meeting up would be interesting,and i for one would not say the winner with great confidence.
Pointless though really,cannot be proved,bit like some of the comments on this thread to be honest.
We can have our favourites and opinions but unless the horses actually compete against each other at their best,its all just that....opinion.
I mean take those that say HF is better than Binocular,yes he has a better race record and won more grade 1's,and is the better in those regards,but would HF have beaten Bino had he run in the CH that Bino won??

I think Hurricane Fly would definitely have won the Supreme the year he was injured.  He was head and shoulders above the rest so he'd probably be a 3 time festival winner now.

On a line through Go Native, Go Native was never ever a match for the Fly when they met (apart from their last meeting this year).  After Go Native won his Supreme, the Fly battered him at Punchestown.  Go Native then went on to be the Champion Hurdle favourite and imo was the best horse in that race; it was a shame that he got injured during it.

To be honest, I rated Hurricane Fly so highly as a novice, I think he would have probably won the Champion Hurdle as a novice, the year Punjabi, Celestaial Halo and Binocular fought it out.

Trainer Harry Fry, speaking at Plumpton, said: "He's come out of Cheltenham really well and he goes to Punchestown, where we'll take on Hurricane Fly again. I know Noel is desperate to take him on again on better ground."

"He [Noel Fehily] feels if the ground had been a little better at Cheltenham he'd have been able to kick again at the top of the hill and not let Hurricane Fly get back into the race, so yes, I think we can beat him."





Thank you Harry

Yeh, if it was better ground he could have gone even quicker early doors and picked up his iron lung at the top of the hill

Hfly is a good Churdler,no doubt,but great ones dont struggle to keep up during the race.
Personally think on his day Bino was the better,problem he had was he did not often have his day,and now it looks like he never will again.
As for ROR he is well capable of beating Hfly again,their aint much between them.

I agree there Budd. I don't think there's a great deal in it, and i'd also like to see Grandouet travel to Ireland aswell. I'd be dissapointed in a racing context if he didn't go there.

I wonder what more Hurricane Fly has to do?

maybe win 15 G1s

a horse running in a champion hurdle 4 weeks before his 10th birthday will never have anything in his favour, everything was against the fly going into that race, it was only the sheer brilliance of the animal which saw him grind them all into the cheltenham mud and reclaim the title that was stolen from him in his last years race by the masked bandit rock on ruby

hurricane fly will be remembered as one the truly great hurdlers of our time were as one-hit wonders like binocular and ror will be rightfully forgotten

harsh on ROR who has won one and second in another. ^^^

He's fishing Howdi. If connections of HF could've written their own criteria for race conditions they couldn't have got it more ideal for the horse. Soft ground, small field, no front-runners.......just like being at home!

Desmond of course he was running against slow(er) horses also. HF has always run against slower horses. His record  proves that beyond doubt.

desmond the race times indicate it was good ground....

The ground was dead.

Not knocking the horse, just pointing out that conditions were ideal for him, in response to the earlier poster who would have you believe he overcame obstacles of a sisyphean order.

Excuses out in force again.

The Fly won because he was the best horse in the race and as said above would have another Festival win had he been there in 2010.

Don't think he would have beaten Binocular.
Very good he was that day, and imo more impressive than HF in his winning years.
Thought ROR was more impressive when he won his as well.

I'm a huge fan of Hurricane Fly, but I don't think he's been at his best at Cheltenham, and I don't think he's at his best on good or faster. I thought this year's race was unsatisfactory. They went too fast. If Ruby had just let them go, he might have picked them up a lot later and a lot easier and we might be hailing the Fly as the best ever, even though the truth would be that Ruby had just been the one jockey who got it right. First thing he said when he pulled up was that he got there two furlongs too soon.
I was at Leopardstown the day HF made Go Native look as if he was standing still after the last, and Go Native won the Supreme two runs later. I've also seen HF produce various other highly impressive performances around Leopardstown and Punchestown, and I've seen him produce less impressive performances around Punchestown as well, and I've seen him win two Champion Hurdles on a track he doesn't like and one of them on ground he didn't like. I've seen him cruise through the last two furlongs, and I've seen him battle like a lion when he's had to. He's won left-handed, right-handed, on flat and undulating, on good and soft, coming through horses and coming round horses, and he was able to make the running when he had to at Punchestown this season, and he stays at least two and a half. He's definitely one of the all-time greats, but yes, if it comes up good at Punchestown, I'd give ROR a chance.
Binocular looked a hell of a horse the day he won the Champion and on one or two other occasions. He's been a joy to watch on his day.

^^^ hailing him as the best ever......no we wouldn't!

you would have to think poor Darlan would have gone close after the way the 2nd and 3rd ran - he was running all over them before his fall

Good summary, Haventaclue. What more does this horse have to do to convince some people. Can't think of any hurdler since Sea Pigeon who has proved his worth so often under different conditions against proper horses. Yes, an all time great.

Better than Istabraq ....never

I think so Howdi.

Judging by todays results it looks like whatever wins the 2014 champion hurdle will still have to beat the 10 year old. Even the "slow" Thousand Stars just beaten.

Istabraq would have made Peddlers Cross look 2nd rate, and was never outpaced and struggling in a CHurdle.
No comparism imo.

I do agree that HF has put in some great performances in Ireland and been ultra consistent on all sorts of going. I just aint sure hes the best at Cheltenham since Istabraq, thats all. Personally prefer the performances of Binocular and Rooster Booster and also i don't think he would have beaten Hardy Eustace, but its all just my thoughts.

 

Don't use Aintree form for next March Arkle imo.

Very poor field of hurdlers in Binoculars champion. The only two good hurdlers in the field were either injured and/or off colour. Granted he could only beat what was put in front of him.

Very poor field of hurdlers in Binoculars champion. The only two good hurdlers in the field were either injured and/or off colour. Granted he could only beat what was put in front of him.

It's all conjecture of course but I think Istabraq would definitely have had Hurricane Fly's measure over the Champion Hurdle C&D, but if it was a typical Irish race, then it would be a close thing - despite winning two of his three runs at The Festival, Hurricane Fly just doesn't look the same horse there to me.

They're both very hard horses to fault and they are the outstanding hurdlers since the Sea Pigeon era.

Name me one performance that Istabraq put up that HF couldn't have bettered.
He benefitted from being around in an incomprehensibly poor era for 2 mile hurdlers.

Yeh it weren't a great era, but Istabraq would have smashed Peddlers Cross who as it turns out was no better than those he did smash, HF had to work bloody hard to beat him.
Over in Ireland I would say they would be a close match, but at Cheltenham I would have Istabraq way ahead.

Anyway, its pretty pointless arguing about it.
I have my opinion, you and others have yours, thats that really.

Guess so, but it would be good to back up your arguments with at least a fact or two.

yeh, but facts are difficult with so many years between horses, so it becomes opinion based on ones own feelings about them. I am pretty sure istabraq would have beaten PC a lot easier than HF did, and I never saw him struggle during a CH as HF did this year, guess that's a fact, but I do agree that HF may well have been good enough to beat those that istabraq beat in his churdles.
I just think that Istabraq was a better horse at Cheltenham than HF is, and dont forget he was only robbed of a 4th CH cos of foot and mouth, imo.

Agreed. Istabraq proved his greatness at Cheltenham. The Fly has proved his greatness because of Cheltenham. In other words he proved his greatness despite never truly enjoying something about the experience be it travelling, the course, the ground or a combination of all three. I have little doubt that with both horses in their prime Istabraq would have won at Cheltenham on goodish ground.

^^^ very good post like the opening line.

Buddeliea, I wouldnt doubt that Istabraq would have won four Champions. But beating Theatreworld world twice, admittedly with ease doesn't compare in my book to the two that HF has won.
Incidentally, where HF is concerned, do not this week's performances by Solwhit and Thousand Stars emphasise yet again what a star he is? Both have been thrashed regularly by him, yet the former hoses home in a grade 1 and the latter puts it up to the horse many feel is the next Champion elect. Yes, Solwhit and Thousand Stars may be better over more than 2 miles, but they are class horses and, for that matter, HF may be better over further himself.

Ive never said HF aint a good horse, or indeed a star in Ireland where he has beaten Solwhit and TS regular with ease.They are though better over further than 2m so HF was entitled to beat them really.
Anyway,my point all along is that HF aint as good round Cheltenham as he is in Ireland, and that imo he aint the best Churdler since Istabraq.I was more impressed with the performances of Rooster and Bino,and also of Hardy's two victories.
As for Istabraq we all know he did not beat great horses at Cheltenham,but he did thrash them and  was a natural there, I don't think HF is.He was hard pushed to beat Peddlers and struggled in the race last year and this year, thats enough for me to form my opinion.

Yes, his races at Cheltenham have been strange. In the first, he jumped and travelled as well as ever, but, having looked like winning at his leisure, had to be driven right out. I remember being disappointed at the time. Then, last year, he was under pressure such a long way from home and, though sticking to it well, never looked himself. I don't, personally, blame the jockey as others have; he never seemed to travel, and maybe his trainer's comments that he was never happy with him that season are more relevant. And then, this year, he looks in awful trouble, neck outstretched and seemingly struggling to go the pace at half way, before coming right back onto the bridle before the home turn but then not going away again as had seemed likely. I do think, though, as Ruby admitted, that he was so relieved to be back in the race, that he hit the front miles too soon, and we might well have seen a more consummate performance had he held on to him longer.
It could be that the travelling gets to him, but I'd agree he does not seem the same horse away from home, where his record is all but flawless. I doubt its the quicker ground as he has excelled on good ground on occasions back home. However, that, to me, adds to his greatness, in that he's still won two well contested Champions, the last being, in my view, as good as any in depth for quite a while.

You assumptions that Fly isn't best away from home is due to him losing last year when the horse wasn't right. It's laughable that people are suggesting Rooster Booster, Binocular or Hardy are better Champion Hurdlers than Hurricane Fly.

We treat a horse on his career. Fly won 2 champion hurdles and was denied running in one due to injury and was clearly below his best in another (overturn ffs). Aside from that he has won all but 2 of his races on 5 different tracks.

He's quite clearly the best since Istabraq and when fully fit and firing hasn't lost a race since he was 4yo. 17/20 is an astonishing strike rate, especially for a horse who has had his share of injury problems.

As for this years race, the tactic was to go so quick early it'd take him out of his comfort zone and maybe get him beat. It failed, Fly was on the bit jumping upsides at the 2nd last and was in front far too soon. He won the race very well. no matter how that race was run it's clear he was the total superior to his rivals.

It shows the depth of his class. No doubt the best since Istabraq and sheer comedy to suggest otherwise.

Agree with all you say, except that, in Ireland, he's virtually never come off the bit and has hammered some very good horses time and again, while at Cheltenham life has been a lot harder for him, even if you ignore 2012. I'd never have expected Peddlers to run him so close nor, for that matter, Rock on Ruby.
You say he's the best since Istabraq, I say he's the best since Sea Pigeon. And there may well be much more to come. Yes, the ones you list don't compare and, yes again, you have to judge horses on their careers. Don't think Desert Orchid would be in any pantheon if his Cheltenham runs were what he was judged on.

Much more to come aged 10?? Really think that's likely Cyclops?

CV,you might say its comical,up to you mate,to be honest I would expect that from Fly's greatest fan,no worries.

Nothing will sway me from my impression of the races in question,and I am sure as one can be that Istabraq,RB,Bino and HE would have dispatched Peddlers a lot easier that HF did,and also travelled a lot better in their Churdles at their best than HF has in his.

He might be the best in Ireland since Istabraq,although personally I would have HE up there as well,but at Cheltenham,not for me.

When I say much more to come, I don't mean he'll improve, I mean he may not have stopped winning grade ones yet. No sign of a dimming of the light IMO, and he's been near unbeatable at Punchestown, so his extraordinary record could well be enhanced.
Think you may have underestimated Peddlers in that particular Champion. He was unbeaten that season, superb the season before, and while that race seems to have completely finished him off, he was very strongly fancied for it, and had Oscar Whisky and Thousand Stars well beaten that day. While I admired Rooster, not sure he beat a lot of strength in depth, while I can't have Binocular as anything but a weak Champion who has never put it up to HF when they've met. As for Hardy, yes, a Cheltenham legend and a great hurdler, but much more ground dependent than HF and I'd personally rank him lower, even at Cheltenham.

yep,he could well win more of those Grade 1's in Ireland,that's fair enough mate.

Peddlers was good at that time I agree,but not sure he was a proper 2m Churdler,and Oscar and TS definitely aint,they are better over further.
Binocular as said before is an enigma who never run his race in Ireland when they met and was gone this year.
But on his day as when he won the CH,he was electric over the hurdles and would have been hard to beat that day,course its possible HF could have beaten him,i just think on his performances at Cheltenham,he would not have.

Rooster absolutely hacked up as did Istabraq,so hard to say how good they were or were capable of those years.
Hardy beat Rooster,and also 2 darn good horses in Harchibald and Brave Inca,so hes proved a real goodun.

Look,they are all good/great horses,and none of us know for sure which were better at their best.
Think I shall leave it at that mate.

To be honest,i think I need a break after Chelt and Aintree,especially with Punchestown looming!!
  Great aint it???

Oh and CV,meant to say how good it is to see us disagreeing as per normal

Wish you luck at Punchestown my old friend,i'm sure you will be there cheering on the Fly.
Hope you have a good one.

Love hurricane fly and think he's the best 2 mile hurdle we have seen in a long time, but with another summer on my tent or yours back and once hendo has taught the horse to settle (pulled all the way to the 2nd last in this years supreme). This horse will be untouchable next season. Just saying like, it's a bridge to far for HF next season :(

Love hurricane fly and think he's the best 2 mile hurdle we have seen in a long time, but with another summer on my tent or yours back and once hendo has taught the horse to settle (pulled all the way to the 2nd last in this years supreme). This horse will be untouchable next season. Just saying like, it's a bridge to far for HF next season :(

What does everyone make of the new brigade for next seasons race? The New One looks a genuine contender, MTOY will be up there IF he stays hurdling

Right now, it would have to be MTOY's for me, he will be lethal off a suicidal pace that gets everything else off the bridal, I actually think he would have won the CH this year with the way that race panned out

He does have a hole in him though perhaps, with the question mark against him when he comes up against something that still has something to offer after the last, but his great great strength I think is that he could cruise through a race that is being run at a ridiculous pace with ease and not have to fight anything off after the last, they must make sure next year that there is something in there to do what ROR did this year.

Duffy ..MTOY..Certainly not for me @ Presbury a bridle horse to my eye there, when it mattered had no Baws coming home
that for me tells me there will always be one to good for him @ the show ? wouldent put counterfit money on it winning champion next year
just my opinion of course but shud he shorting to something really stupid on the day i would lay the conkers off him ..good luck

Remember Ted Walsh saying before the Supreme, "I've had a few Desrt Prince's and there's no way he'll get up the hill". Well, of course, he did get up the hill to an extent, but it was a Harchibald type scenario and, whatever he does before next year's Champion, no-one will know just how he'll see the race out. A flat track bully he may turn out to be, although, as McCoy noted after Aintree, he is strongly built and you couldn't rule out him strengthening up. However, at the current price, he doesn't appeal to me.

If he stays hurdling I think he's a certainty to be in the first 3; as someone else mentioned though he's likely to still be on the bridle at the last and then get outbattled up the hill once again

The difference between him and harchi is that for me he could travel off of a far stronger pace than harchi without coming off the bridal, that's what I'm saying, a suicidal pace to which we never ever see so as to destroy everything else before the run-in....it's possible, because ROR did it this year, HF didn't quicken or anything as grand as that, he just stayed on past knackered horses....basically IMO when we talk about horses that travel well off a strong pace I think that in MTOY'S we are going to see a horse that takes that whole concept to another level...we'll see.

....but he did get done by Champagne Fever.

I know what you're saying but it was all about the pace set and the type of horse he is.

walsh didn't set a suicide pace, he kept something back because he fancied his horse would out battle certainly MTOY'S and he was right, that's mtoy's flaw, but off a suicidal pace Walsh would have no horse left whereas mtoy's would still be swinging, he could handle that sort of pace much better, ror and zark are battlers aren't they, but they were fooked in the CH because the pace killed them.

I agree mtoy's will find something too tough of an average pace, but if if they can make the pace a real killer, he'll really come into his own...IMO.

I'd be inclined to think the opposite. The early pace was slow in the Supreme and they finished quickly. Ideal for MTOY in my view, but he was outbattled. I suspect the Champion, where the mid race pace was ferocious, would have softened him up much earlier and he's have shot his bolt before the last. Don't forget that the pace in the Betfair, where he looked so good, was a very modest one. He's yet to prove he can do it at the end of a strongly run race.

Our connor wins the race no problem it might not have been a great triumph but look how he won it.

Sky Our Connor beat a bunch of trees. A big step up to win a champion next March.

for once next season we will get a feel for how good the irish lot are before Cheltenham as The Fly will surely have to meet Jezki and Our Connor earlier in season.

For my money Our Connor loos the business

i know it beat trees thats not the horse's fault.Its the way it beat the trees in a grade 1 race.

I want to know what handicap on the flat they're lining our conor up for this year...85!!