Pont Alexandre - Bartlett or Neptune?

Wait till after this weekend.

If I'm correct, I think this is normally the race he runs his AB horse in and his Neptune horse runs in the Deloitte

See how close Our vinnie gets to PA

Ok. Will do.

have him backed for the albert myself worried about the drift

un atout Supreme
Champagne Fever Neptune
Pont Alexandre Albert

id say you got it spot on brooksie

Surely Ballycasey runs in AB which would suggest PA for Neptune. Leaves CF ??? No doubt we will find out for certain about 10th or 11th March.

suppose he could have 2 in the race?? he,s gone in double handed before, townsend on one ruby on the other?

personally think Pont Alexandre would get taken off his feet over 2 and a half on better ground, he's got such an engine and for me I think his best chance of winning would be over the 3 miles. He's very exciting and can only have improved from his first run.

PA for the Neptune imo

yes Ground dependant.

I'd rather back The New One for the Neptune tbh.

Yep, initially disappointed with The New One yesterday, but on reflection I thought it was a great Neptune Trial.

Ponte Alexandra for the 2014 RSA.

Should get some more info soon lads.
Im on Anonis at nice odds for AB and Neptune,hoping for a nice run today.Was a tad green last time and a bit iffy with his jumps,but still won and has some engine.

will win the AB imo just relentless galloping, horse with a massive future.

bit iffy jumping again,fell this time.
oh well.

Pont looks good,still not sure what race though.

He looks like an Albert Bartlett type to me

wellchief Date Joined: 17 Dec 09
Add contact When: 27 Jan 13 11:53 Yep, initially disappointed with The New One yesterday, but on reflection I thought it was a great Neptune Trial.

Ponte Alexandra for the 2014 RSA

Jesus christ carch yourself on he's only just started jumping hurdles.

neptune according to willie, but this guy changes his mind like the weather

Irish Racing seems to quote Willie as saying Pont Alexandre for Neptune and Ballycasey for Albert Bartlett which is what the markets have been shouting ever since the run of money for Ballycasey who realistically should be at least twice the price on any known form. Presumably journalists and Mullins have both completely forgotten about Champagne Fever. No doubt Willie will finally get round to telling everyone that CF will miss the Festival and bookmakers can raise a toast to the great man.

Afterwards an impressed Mullins stated “it was a huge performance to make all in that ground and in that weather and to burn off the horses behind him. He just destroyed them with that good jump at the second last and opened up a gap of four lengths when other horses would be getting tired.

“I'm looking forward to going to Cheltenham with him but what I'm really looking forward to is sending him over fences. He has size and scope and has a lovely temperament and am really looking forward to going novice chasing next season.”

He added “Ballycasey (the winner's stablemate) looks like he might go for the Albert Bartlett and while Pont Alenandre could go for the Albert Bartlett, he seems to have plenty of speed and will go for the Neptune.”

"Pont Alenandre could go for the Albert Bartlett" HAHAHAHA that means when Champagne is back on track it all changes. Bloody wheres willie at it again.

This is the quote that really caught my eye...

"He looks to be one of the best novice hurdlers we've had, apart maybe from Hurricane Fly."

There's no need to big him up like AOB does on the flat as all he's every going to be is a race horse....

Champagne Fever entered to run in the Deloitte next Saturday. I can forsee the following statement made by WM at around 2.15 next Saturday:

“I'm looking forward to going to Cheltenham with him. He has plenty of speed so he'll be going for the Neptune but we also have Pont Alexandre in that race. We could switch Pont Alexandre to the AB as he is a real stayer but then we also have Ballycasey in that one. It really is too soon to confirm any plans and we'll decide after discussions with the Ricci's.”

He added "What i like most about the run up to the festival is pissing off as many AP punters as i can."

haha maelduin.

i think this horse has been one of the most impressive of the season .

Ay Howdi, it was obvious he's always going to be a chaser, and I said that before this race.

Like Boston Bob, this season is a bonus over hurdles, and Mullins said after this race he was going novice chasing.

Whenever you want to apologise, feel free :-)

i dont feel a need to ive been watching this game for years but stating it is next years winner of the RS is nothing short of barmy

Not that barmy at all imo. He looks like a high class horse and a staying chaser in the making. Next year all going well I'm sure he will be aimed at that type of race. Of course a long time between now and then but it's likely to be a good shout tbh.

i could name you 100 horses who looked well set to have great chasing careers untiul you see them jump a fence you cant know for sure

Care to name anywhere were I've said he's next years RSA winner?

PA looks good alright but as WPM alluded to in his post-race comments it takes some effort to make all in that ground. Could it take the edge of him? Decisions decisions.

Pont Alexandre won impressively today but he doesn't appear to hurdle well enough for a race like the Neptune.

At the moment he is guessing at some of his hurdles and should Mullins choose to run in the Neptune I think he would be outpaced and off the bridle coming down the hill trying to stay in touch with strong travelling horses like The New One and Puffin Billy.

I think his technique will improve when he tackles the bigger obstacles as he would show fences more respect. With his long stride and great engine I think he will be most effective on soft ground in staying chases.

In other words, he is a horse for next year. I would not be surprised if Mullins swerved the festival or if he released a statement saying PA had a setback and will be rested. It seems to happen every year!

Until PA proves he can handle quicker ground and his hurdling technique improves I still think The New One is the most likely winner.

Reminds me of So Young a few years ago who came in on the back of 2 easy wins and got done. Would prefer my Neptune horse to have had at least 3 runs under its belt including one where it has had to dig in a little.

Pont Alexandre has seemingly not been considered for the Neptune until Champagne Fever has went t!ts up and that would concern me also

turnip turns...love your muttley photo!

So Young went into the Neptune on the back of winning an average enough maiden at Leopardstown and an ordinary novice hurdle at Punchestown.

Pont Alexandre has won a grade 1 at Navan and a grade 2 with a grade 1 penalty at Leopardstown. I think his claims are a lot more solid than So Young's ever where.

Pont Alexandre has had 3 runs over hurdles so ignore that. duh! Is he quick enough for a Neptune? Hmmmmmm.....

Nope he wont be, the quicker horse is Champagne Fever so if he bounces back he'll run in the Neptune, PA will head to the AB which he will most certainly win.

Yeah that's what I think also

Looks to have a bright future, lovely long stride.

Ballycasey running in AB,aint he?

Think we wont know where PA goes till very late.

Using Our Vinnie as a yardstick, would suggest to me that PA has a bit to find with The New One.  On quicker ground I would think he would be better served by running in the AB.  Either way I believe Chelt Saturday form is slightly better than his and now appears too short in the betting.

Normally I would be in full agreement about treating everything Mullins says with extreme caution. In this case I am not so sure. As soon as Pont Alexandre made a winning debut you would reasonably have expected him to be aimed at the Albert Bartlett leaving Champagne Fever for the Neptune. At that stage Ballycasey wasn't really on the radar. Subsequently Champagne Fever runs a shocker but a few days later Mullins gives an upbeat report - nothing since? - and almost immediately there is a big move for Ballycasey. Hard to believe that is not stable money. Since then all running plans appear to revolve around Ballycasey. It beggars belief that nobody has grilled Mullins over Champagne Fever. You have to be concerned that a decision has already been made to miss Cheltenham and Mullins hasn't bothered to tell anyone - the Deloitte entry looks a smokescreen to me as it doesn't look an ideal confidence booster for a horse returning off such a bad run. He doesn't need to prove he is Grade 1 class his bumper form already confirms that.

I'd say that it's difficult to gauge PA's ability as he hasn't been fully  challenged to date.  If he finds more when asked then he looks top notch & a worthy fav for either race IMO.

Mullins famous for talking absolute rubbish regarding where a horse goes. This thing was being ridden along yesterday on heavy ground into a wind over 2m 4f. On better ground against quicker horses he is gonna get turned over.

He could have won on the bit yesterday had Ruby chosen too, he crusied away from them after the good jump at the 2nd last and Ruby pushed him out (without using the whip) for experience more than anything i'd say.

Think if you have backed PA for Albert Bartlett (like me, hence the thread) you are deluding yourself if you think he is still likely to turn up there. I think Ruby's quote is telling: "If you saw him at home, you'd think he wants five miles. He is a different horse at the track and showed today he has the pace for the Neptune." They really do want to run him in the Neptune and Ballycasey for the AB. The pre-race Betfair markets suggested that was their thinking.

This is getting beat in March for me. The New One, Puffin Billy, Rule The World all got a chance against this thing. Yesterday full of Albert Bartlett horses. If making the running will be stalked all the way then pounced on.

As for Mullins comment regarding best novice hurdler ever..erm, heard all this last year with Boston Bob I think?

I like Rule The World & still think he's a tad overpriced. It'll be a late decision by Mullins I believe & it's hard to criticise as the trainer & owner have several options. I would agree with PF's assessment of yesterday's race.

I'd be pretty sure this horse runs in the Neptune.

Puffin Billy goin Supreme most likely as per trainer today

if its soft i believe BJG

Pont is a high class horse and think it will win whichever race it turns up in. Bit like Simonsig of last season a horse with a huge future.

pont is like most of the mullins horse pre cheltenham far too short in the betting, it wont beat the new one. the twiston davies,s have a line of form through their horse according to trev and our vinnie, i dont think they will be losing much sleep

Hard to criticise? A late decision? For the last few weeks it appears to have been set in stone that Ballycasey is going for the Albert Bartlett. On that basis it was then inevitable Pont Alexandre was Neptune bound pending victory yesterday. The criticism is the lack of information about Champagne Fever - if this horse doesn't travel he is one of the best ante-post results bookmakers could wish for having appeared towards the head of markets for Supreme, Neptune, Albert Bartlett, RSA etc.

Ladbrokes are very wise and took PA out the AB betting and CF out the Neptune betting loooool.

Differentdrum. I think ur making the plans up in ur head?
1. They've had a sick horse, would they rule him in/out of anything straight after his last run?
2. We are experiencing some of the most volatile weather in recent memory, could lead to a soft ground festival no?
3.  How the feck can Mullins commit his running plans at this stage with so many variables to consider? I

I am making them up?

1. They had a sick horse but we are two weeks further down the line and Mullins has said nothing after initial upbeat report.
2. None of the three horses should have a problem with soft ground so that isn't a factor.
3. Haven't you read the quote? Mullins has already said Pont Alexandre goes for the Neptune and Ballycasey goes for the Albert Bartlett.

Yes, he has indicated that, it could of course change over the next few weeks. I recall Mullins giving an interview last year stating that SDC was RSA bound.

you only have to look where the moneys going on betfair,that will normally tell you mullins plan,remember last year when he said he didnt know where boston bob was going,yet all the money was going on him to win the ab,someone last year flaggedit up with him at a cheltenham forum last year and he was totally dumbstruck ! it is on utube

“Ballycasey (the winner's stablemate) looks like he might go for the Albert Bartlett and while Pont Alenandre could go for the Albert Bartlett, he seems to have plenty of speed and will go for the Neptune.”

I'll say no more. Mullins is very reserved so why after two weeks would he need to give another update what else would he need to say????

He's quite clearly covering himself with saying "could". That word alone has made my mind up that if Champagne Fever is right he will switch PA.

Why would he commit 6 weeks before? I mean really...with this stable?

Followers of pricewise would like to note that Tom Segal has said Pont Alexandre is his "number one" at the moment and said he looks a class above.

He also quoted Mullins as saying he is the best novice hurdler he has had since Hurricane Fly.

Granted, Mullins doesn't give much away, but amazed at the abuse aimed at him on here. johntucker sums it up well above, and those who think any trainer should be constantly updating the punters with every probable and possible permutation for the festival seven weeks in advance is certifiable. Try to work it out for yourself and, if you're in doubt, you don't have to bet!

well said cyclops.
it happens every year with mullins,mainly cos he has so many novices.
its up to us to try and work it out,or just leave it till near the day.

"those who think any trainer should be constantly updating the punters with every probable and possible permutation for the festival seven weeks in advance is certifiable."

And there in lies the problem. WM seems to feel the need to keep updating the punters on where his horses "will go". Unfortunately many times in the past the word "will" has meant "may". There is absolutely no need for any trainer to give definitive answers until days before the festival given that so many factors can affect decisions.
The Oliver Sherwood interview on ATR recently regarding Puffin Billy was a perfect example of a trainer in tune with what punters want to hear i.e. no sure yet where he may go, if soft ground then Supreme, if good ground then Neptune (paraphrasing). Everyone is happy. gltu.

Yes, but Sherwood has one horse for these races. Very difficult for Mullins not to be somewhat contradictory as the season progresses, in much the same way as Henderson. The latter, for example, has veered from World Hurdle to Champion Hurdle to neither in recent weeks for Oscar Whisky. The only thing he hasn't posited is the Champion/World double.

Does anyone know when the declerations for the Neptune / Supreme are actually out. I wasn't expecting the market to be closed for more than a couple of days

On the other thread

WM has probably 6 7 or 8 horses which could run in the novice hurdle races so it is very difficult for him to be definite at this stage. It is frustrating I know but very understandable. Most of the criticism on here is simply unfair.

"The latter, for example, has veered from World Hurdle to Champion Hurdle to neither in recent weeks for Oscar Whisky."

They may have veered but Henderson has never once said definitely which race Oscar Whiskey would go for. This is what i am talking about. It's all about being aware of what you're saying. All WM has to say is "we will look at the Neptune and AB for him and depending on how the race looks and ground conditions we will decide which way to go". Instead he gets that "lightbulb above his head" look and blabs out something definitive. He needs some PR schooling. IMO. gltu

"WM has probably 6 7 or 8 horses which could run in the novice hurdle races so it is very difficult for him to be definite at this stage."

The issue is him being too definitive this early on. I personally don't care if he waits until the final decs stage to make up his mind as long as he lets punters know he's in a state of indecision about the horses in question. Is that too much to ask. gltu.

While the nine-year-old won two Grade Ones last term, he relinquished his Champion Hurdle title at Cheltenham in what was a slightly disappointing performance.

However, he has been in excellent form this term, winning the Morgiana and Festival Hurdles before his comfortable five-length verdict at Leopardstown last weekend.

Mullins said: "He is fine and has come out of his race very well and is back in the form he was in two years ago. Last year he came in from grass lighter, but this year he has come in stronger and has kept the condition on him."

Profiles
Hurricane Fly (IRE)
Pont Alexandre (GER)
Ballycasey (IRE)
W P Mullins


Hurricane Fly dominates the betting for next month's Champion Hurdle and Mullins also has a strong hand in the novice heats.

Pont Alexandre is unbeaten in two starts this term, winning a Grade Two at Leopardstown last Sunday to book his place in the Neptune Investment Management Novices' Hurdle.

Mullins also has Ballycasey in the race, but the dual hurdles winner is set to tackle the three-mile Albert Bartlett Novices' Hurdle instead.

The trainer said: "Pont Alexandre gallops, stays and does everything right. He doesn't show me his ability at home but that's because we don't get stuck into him much and the plan remains for him to go to the Neptune and for Ballycasey to go for the Albert Bartlett."