Cheltenham Festival
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Tank of a horse
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Replies: 44
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Real Milan ?
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^No,Real Madrid.
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Boston Bob
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Serious question: Why is Rocky Creek a shorter price then Poungach? Poungach has better form in beating Super Duty and Court in Motion franking the form. He has raced at 2m 5f and 2m 6f giving the impression 3m at cheltenham in a war of attrition suit him. I know some handicappers call him a dog but the way he stayed on dourly on his proper "debut" (fell at first on his REAL debut) suggests he has heart. Nicholls has said he's a lazy type and that meshes. I've jumped in on Poungach and tempted to go in for more but would like to hear some rebuttals as to why not. Cheers!
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nicholls never has a good word to say about poungach though, calling him lazy as you mentioned and i also remember a comment about 'not aiming him too high'
i don't know if he's deliberately playing things down or he genuinely doesn't fancy him much and thinks he's got better RSA horses could see poungach running in the 4miler tbf |
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Boston bob yes
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Tucho, very true but I just cannot see Rocky Creek or Sire Collonges as better then Poungach. Poungach has raced over shorter whilst Rocky Creek only 3 miles. Would think Rocky Creek better suit to NH Chase? Form has worked out beautifully and should be better over 3m then the 2m 5/6F trip he has raced so far. His hurdling form (admittedly in limited sample size)looks superior to Rocky Creek and Sire Collonges too.
Holding fire for now. Got a bit on already and want to see the Feltham Chase entries and hopefully positive comments from Nicholls before I go in again. Thanks Tucho! GL |
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2m5f in heavy going today must mean Unioniste will get 3m come March. He is still 20/1. Is that because he was well handicapped today do you think ?
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I thought the race was weak and he had only 9 stone 9lbs to carry in heavy conditions. As a four years old, he's very young, but Dynaste and Fingal Bay (who I've never rated at all) beat him comfortably. Given lack of Jewson and even Arkle candidates from Ditcheat, I can't see Sire Collonges, Rocky Creek, Poungach and Unioniste all lining up for the RSA! Sire Collonges maybe NH Chase. Unioniste and Poungach have both been racing over shorter whilst Rocky Creek started over 3m. Perhaps Unioniste in the Jewsons? We'll know more when the entries for the Feltham comes out.
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Wouldn't consider backing a 5 yo in the RSA.
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Completely understand your thinking BUT look what he did as a 4 YO today.
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Levels weights in a Festival field amongst the very best staying novices is a very different matter though.
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Unioniste was comprehensively beaten by Dynaste at the Open meeting.....in fact he was comprehensively beaten by Fingal Bay too! I'd be very careful about taking the form of any of yesterday's results too literally unless come March, Cheltenham still resembles a swamp rather than a racecourse.
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Fair point guys. Getting carried away. Dangerous. A nights sleep and normal service resumed. Handicap good thing. Level weights changes the game. I am sticking with Boston Bob and Ambion Wood for RSA and today is an important day for BB............am hoping Dynaste goes Jewson route coz got a decent AP on.
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i dont think they'll run Boston bob in the RSA,Really like Ambion Wood for it though.
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Why would nt they run BB in the RSA?
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Assuming he is in one piece obv by the time Chelt comes round
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Why would you be so sure that Mullins will point him in that direction?
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its the only race he'll go for...thats almost certain...have to say I wasn't that taken by him myself...but if they go to cheltenham it will be for the rsa...out of interest roobuck what race do you think they'll aim him at??
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Cheltenham roar - have you heard anything about Ambion Wood recently ? The yard has had to cope with a disease of some sort hasn't it ?
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Just watched Boston Bob - what are people's opinions after the race - I felt he jumped and travelled well but looked very workmanlike at the end - surely if at the festival must go 3m route
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Heard it was to make debut on Friday at uttoxeter, I know the virus didn't affect him and its all systems go
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Thanks for the reply it is - appreciated
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harry the first question I would ask is did he look like a festival winner? Not based on that run though clearly he will surely improve for it and he did at least win. Really not sure he looked as if he wanted to go too much further.
I look at the last three Irish winners of the RSA and part of me cannot help thinking they left a lot in the race. Last year Mullin's best staying chaser was surely Sir Des Champs and he ran in the Jewson. Yes I know that may well have been Gigginstown's decision. But if Mullins genuinely thinks he is potentially top class, it would not surprise me if they saved from running in what is widely accepted as a grueling race for a novice. The owner/trainer combo has another potential one for the race in Back in Focus and they may plump for the Jewson therefore instead. At the end of the day I really don't know but we all know the perils in backing a Mullin's novice AP, either hurdler or chaser. Genuinely interested to know why people are so convinced he will go RSA, hence my question |
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Boston Bob ran a solid race today and will come on, he moved well, jumped well and battled well in what can only be described as a bog. Back in Focus needs mud up to his knees to compete at the top level and imo won't be at Cheltenham unless soft / heavy is in the going. But he will mop up top class racing in Ireland in winter conditions.
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Because he ain't quick enough for the jewson that's why. 3m gd/sft is what he needs.
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callaghan out of his league imo
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Howdi I respect your views - having watched the race a few times it looks like bb won't be good enough to me . I have backed him quite a bit for the rsa but wasn't convinced today . Maybe the ground was so so bad - that's what I am hoping !
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Depends how good you actually need to be to win the race.
I can see a trend forming where the better horses run in the Jewson over time,especially as their does seem to be a thought that the RSA can harm a horses development. Aside from Denman their does seem to be a lack of class winners of the RSA,maybe that trend applies already. |
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Thought bb jumped well on his debut. Was a tired horse but I'm sure he'll come on for that. Was terrible ground. Ladbroke gone 10/1 lol mugs
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On the whole I agree budd though Albertas Run has turned out OK and Bobs Worth seems to show that he will be very decent.
As a matter of interest, how many previous winners of the RSA have gone on to win the CGC? Doesn't seem like its ever been a consistent source of class horses, though happy to accept my lack of knowledge may shine through |
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First time out and was BB's first race over fences. Ran in a bog. Did everything required. Ruby very positive. Why the negatives.
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Yeh Albertas has done well,but not at Gold Cup distance though.
Just think that the Jewson will be a race that trainers may look at more than the RSA for potential future stars for the Gold Cup. With Bobsworth,hes the type of horse that dont look phased about anything,but i could see his trainer thinking twice about a more flashy type running in the RSA,with the Jewson option now available. |
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Reckon Pipe may well be regretting running Grand Crus,and anyone betting on Dynaste for the RSA needs to be
a tad careful imo |
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Agree with that and said on another thread that Jewson I see as a more viable option for potential RSA horses whereas it would be less likely for viable Arkle candidates - same trainer issues aside that is.
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I think the RSA Chase theory for setting a horse back is overstated myself. The evidence is mized at best. Trainers would not run potential GC horses in the race if they thought there was a genuine chance of it ruining them. Same horses just struggle to have two seasons the same, at any level.
Trabolgan was a top class winner of the race and won the Henessy on his next start but after that he picked up a tendon injury and his career was over. |
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The difference between Sir Des and BB is that one of them has been raced over 3miles before contesting the RSA/Jewson.
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Denman won the RSA, Hennessy twice and a Gold Cup but on the whole, winners of the RSA are more likely to regress than improve imo. More Gold Cup winners (Best Mate and Kicking King recently) have come from the Arkle so I agree that the Jewson is a sensible route to take.
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Sorry, Best Mate was denied an Arkle win because of Foot and Mouth but that was the intended route.
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