Timeforms top rated chasers - updated

Tidal Bay apparently the 3rd highest rated horse ever to have the timeform squiggle - only Morley Street in recent years had a higher rated mark for a horse not to be fully trusted!!

Fair to say the only way is down for Sanctuaire when Sprinter exposes him on Saturday

as I posted on the Tingle Creek thread I have Sprinter 10lbs clear of Sanctuaire on 175 to 165... and that is on the bare form not taking into account how easily he won his races

nice to see TF have a similar gap

expecting Cue Card to show big improvement in the KG and go second on the list

Howdi - who was the other squiggle horse?

I know some of us old-timers often see things through rose-tinted specs, but it's a surprise to me that Morley Street had a squiggle!

I suspect Sanctuaire may be getting one some time soon, when he reverts to type

entirely possible N-G

that what you want lads?? or would you rather have 2 great chasers clashing to look forward to???

yes its possible to see Sanctuaire revert to his old hurdling days,but you could be more positive and think to yourselves,this horse is totally different over fences, bowling along,and enjoyable to watch.

As for the ratings,be interesting to see how they pan out as the season goes.

Budd - I ALWAYS hope for the best,but I'm being a realist...I've seen these 'false-dawn' horses before, and they NEVER change their spots for good!
They just have purple patches now & again - I really can see Sanctuaire 'souring' this season, especially after Sprinter Sacre beats him up!

well yes thats possible of course,but hes with the top trainer whose transformed Tidal Bay as well.
Myself i prefer to think Sanctuaire simply neede fences and allowed to bowl along.
At the moment thats the case,and lets hope it continues,otherwise we have a 2m season in danger of becoming a series of walkovers in the top races.
And we dont want that,well i dont anyway.

I think that's going to be the case I'm afraid because although I say I have him on 175 I could easily see him reaching much higher in future as he hasn't been pushed yet

well we will find out for sure soon,cos if SS beats Sanctuaire comfortably at Sandown fto,then thats it,cos i would not see any different anywhere else during the season,if that happens.
Would be a shame,cos although we would have a real superstar,we would be deprived of the sort of build up and excitement this race has created,and i for one love all that.

sorry casnt find article with timeform squiggle saw it yesterday naval

Beech Road, Morley Street, Little Bay, Last Suspect, Derring Rose, Bird's Nest, Gaye Brief, Bregawn, Connaught Ranger, Brown Chamberlain, Norton's Coin, Pridwell, Escartefigue. It reads like a cast-list for the Cheltenham and Aintree Festivals, for Gold Cups, Champion Hurdles and Grand Nationals, yet they were squigglers all.

This is the article I think Howdi was referring too

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2006/sep/05/horseracing.comment

Its a pity SS and Sanct are meeting so soon as it is the build up to these head-to-heads which makes Chelters. Sanct was surely impressive last season but I have a faint picture in my mind of him acting sourly before one of his hurdle races two seasons back so there is every chance he may revert to type. It will be exciting if he gives it all.

Thanks for that Duffy...I think they should be sorted into yes or no categories;

An unequivocal YES with NO excuses:

Little Bay
Bregawn
Derring Rose
Bird's Nest
Pridwell (probably)

But I think all of the others are a bit harsh.
If memory serves, Beech Road was nearly killed by a fall (probably affected him badly even though he won a Champion Hurdle two starts later) and for years I strongly suspected there was a serious breathing problem with Gaye Brief.
Of the others...I can't remember any reasons for their loss of form but I didn't have their cards marked as rogues.

Nevertheless, a great list you posted

If horses go sour in their old age, I think that's an unfair reason to call them a twicer as quite likely, something undiagnosed has occurred - Bregawn for example was admirably consistent for years until he 'turned' and that's all people remember.

This is the strange thing about Tidal Bay is that he seems to have been re-rejuvenated - I was unlucky enough to have backed him when inexplicably nailed (in a healthy £1 E/W L15 bet with Voy Por Ustedes & Cloudy Lane) by Massini's Maguire...worse still, my Ex backed that fcuker at 28/1 and had it with the other pair I backed in a 10p Lucky 15...her first EVER bet!

PS - Vodkatini was another weirdo that probably deserved a black mark against his name.

Wot no Challenger Du Luc???

I loved him Roger

RTB - that's a definite!

I have to admit to being a big fan of virtually all these so called rogues...maybe there's a character flaw in ME
Harchibald is my favourite horse in my 30+ years affair with the sport, but I'm not having him included in any lists!

I remember CDL fighting like a terrier to beat off strong promise in the mackeson/thomas pink or whatever it was called then.

Far From Trouble 03 Dec 12 21:02 
Fair to say the only way is down for Sanctuaire when Sprinter exposes him on Saturday



Exposed

there's no telling how good Sprinter Sacre could be and unless something with similar ability turns up he could well win every race he goes in on the bridle and by wide margins

today he won 6 seconds faster than Captain Conan over the same C&D, carrying 5lb more, in a hack canter! Could easily be a 190 horse under the right conditions and with strong opposition

trouble is he doesn't need to run anywhere near full potential to win easily which is frightening

Might never get the chance to achieve his true rating though, no fker will want to take him on!

that's right FFT

Anyone think we could see him in next season's King George?

yes he could well step up in trip later in his career

I can't possibly envisage 20f being beyond him and after Edredon Bleu astonished me in winning a King George, I can't see any reason why he shouldn't have a crack at it...then the debates about his versatility will end.

Oh dear oh dear.

This is the ultimate 2 miler.

He wouldn't stay 3 miles in a hand cart.

If Henderson has any sense  (which I'm confident he has ) he'll never again be asked to race beyond 2 miles.

Probably right Bolty, but as I said, 20f won't be the slightest concern, so why not have a go?

I wouldn't be confident of him getting 3M but I thought Edredon Bleu having a crack was a waste of time!

yes he could hose up in the 2 mile division for the rest of his career if that's what the connections feel like doing

but maybe they will be just curious enough to try other things with him especially as he might learn to settle better with experience

certainly going to be fascinating following him

Well I have to say Edredon Bleu was one of my major misjudgements.

Sprinter is a pure 2 miler though imo

Time will tell. Some really promising horses about this season.Exciting times.

Wow just wow,SS in a league of his own,in my very humble opinion he is so far superior to any other 2m chaser he is unquantifiable,what a engine,spring heeled and clever when gets in a little close and not stopping up the Sandown hill and to think pre Cheltenham 2012 I had some doubts to this lads stamina............wow just wow !

I salute SS although 3 Queen Mothers will be required for true greatness.

I was a huge fan of Edredon Bleu whose fencing over 2M was the most fluent & economic I've seen!
Despite that, I still thought he didn't have a chance at 3M but I was chuffed he won the King George...I roared him home

no, he's only a pure two miler SO FAR

that could easily change, he's only had 6 starts over fences so there's plenty of time for things to change

people thought Kauto Star would not turn out to be a stayer when he was 6 yo, he ran in the QMCC that season

never pays to be too dogmatic about these things

no, he's only a pure two miler SO FAR

that could easily change, he's only had 6 starts over fences so there's plenty of time for things to change

people thought Kauto Star would not turn out to be a stayer when he was 6 yo, he ran in the QMCC that season

never pays to be too dogmatic about these things

Why do people get obsessed with stepping horses up in trip? Lets just enjoy the airplane as he is, an out and out 2 miler

Agreed bluebirdfan its like BB why should he drop back in trip or go chasing. These wonderful horses are the best in their respective divisions..............that should be enough surely.

the answer is simply "to find out" or "for the sport"

why would you keep wanting to beat the same horses over and over when you already know that you are a stone or more superior?

I would want the challenge, to see just what it is capable of and the glory

He looks to heavy to run around for 3 and a 1/4 miles imo. He wont be able to touch Conti over that trip in the years to come.

that's just guessing though to be frank

Too heavy for 3 1/4m? Would favour a light framed, diddy little thing like Denman then.

Bizarre post.

indeed, completely bizarre

will they ever step him up in trip? people thought Kauto would remain at two miles until he went to Haydock and blitzed the field by 17 lengths in the Betfair

may be wrong here,but i thought mr henderson said hes an out and out 2 miler and would never run him over further??

looks to me that he would get further,but having a horse that wins the Tingle Creek,Victor Chandler and the QM every year aint too sad!!

Usain bolt vs mo farah over 5k, If usain bolt trained for 10 years he'd struggle to get anywhere near farah

If Henderson has any sense the furthest he'd go is 2 and a half, and campaign him to rule the 2m divison for next 5 years.

SS just don't strike me as a staying chaser. Wrong build.

Going from 2m to 3m is a 50% increase in trip. From 100m to 5k is a nearly a 500% increase in trip.

he's similar in build to Best Mate who was also 'athletic'

far too early to be deciding what he will do in future years, he's only just starting his career out of novice company

he will surely go 2 and a half miles this season if Henderson follows his usual pattern and runs him in the Melling Chase - from there all options are open

this morning he said Victor Chandler next then QM, Aintree or Punchestown after the festival.

indeed that's what you would expect in his first season out of novice company

but after that?