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Ibrahima Sonko
23 Nov 12 21:29
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Date Joined: 03 Jun 07
| Topic/replies: 7,903 | Blogger: Ibrahima Sonko's blog
I really should had started this last sunday morning.

Well i was blown away when he made his hurdle debut, backed him big time on the sunday at the paddy power meeting.

But after the way the horse Coneygree beat ran today  i feel Coneygree needs his own Fred.

Already my fav Novice hurdler.
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Report trap six February 10, 2015 11:20 PM GMT
wouldnt dispute that ,but nico was banned last sat,obviousely dickie was available,and you would always want the best but bradstock had been using mattie for a long time and i just wondered was he retired as he doesnt seem to ride much anymore.
Report alleged22 February 10, 2015 11:35 PM GMT
I take it you don't watch the morning line trap 6?
Report trap six February 11, 2015 2:52 PM GMT
no alleged ,no i didn see it,i know mattie was on it,my answer is obviousely there,lol.what he say?
Report Ibrahima Sonko March 13, 2015 3:29 PM GMT
Blush
Report Howdi March 13, 2015 3:31 PM GMT
brilliant saw him live in feltham knew it wasnt a fluke
Report timtin March 13, 2015 3:32 PM GMT
the best novice jumper I can remember! Jumps his fences like they aren't there! AND he's a novice! AMAZING!
Report trigger3 March 13, 2015 4:03 PM GMT
Great performance and a great decision to go for gold. May not have beaten Don Poli on good ground but conditions turned in his favour overnight and to win a gold cup from the front with immaculate jumping takes some doing.
Report Steamship March 13, 2015 4:35 PM GMT
Brilliant thread and what this forum is all about. I hope you guys who spotted him early have won plenty.

A fantastic result for the sport and means we can all dream about owning a Gold Cup hope.
Report SoYouThink March 13, 2015 5:52 PM GMT
Well done to anyone who followed this horse from the start ... amazing performance. I thought he'd run well but never considered him as a potential winner.

Looking ahead do people think he can dominate the staying division for another year or so .... style of racing would suggest he's going to be hard on himself?
Report festivalfanatic March 13, 2015 5:59 PM GMT
Stunning effort. Well done to all connections and to those who had the faith. This is Hans Christian Anderson stuff really.
Report Glossy March 13, 2015 7:23 PM GMT
Ibrahima Sonko    15 Dec 12 13:04 
Was a slog, i hope they choose the 2m5f route.

Future gold cup winner imo.


GET THIS MAN A BEER!!!
Report Ibrahima Sonko March 13, 2015 7:31 PM GMT
I where is far from trouble....
Report wellchief March 13, 2015 7:31 PM GMT
While I'm gutted that Conti couldn't do, this fella winning more than makes up for it.  Also owe Djakadam an apology - he ran a blinder, as did Road to Riches.  Also, Holywell on unfavoured ground ran well better than I imagined he would.

That was a proper Gold Cup - no hard luck stories, with the best 4 pulling well clear of the rest.  All young horses, with Vautour and Don Poli, what a race we could have with 2 Giggi and 2 Ricci ones right at the top.
Report PeteTheBloke March 13, 2015 8:57 PM GMT
Nice spot by Ibrahima Sonko - well done. Probably a year or two before you expected it - hope you won plenty.
Report The Councillor March 13, 2015 9:26 PM GMT
great thread, hope those boots were filled up proper....
Report SoYouThink March 13, 2015 10:00 PM GMT
I would agree - that was a good Gold Cup. Coneygree set what looked a fairly brutal pace and kept it up. As Ruby Walsh said it was a proper Gold Cup with horses dropping off one by one. It wasn't since the Kauto Star / Denman era that we've seen that happen.
Report duffy March 13, 2015 10:01 PM GMT
Great StuffCool
Report marychain1 March 13, 2015 10:46 PM GMT
Absolutely brilliant. What a horse.
Report Ibrahima Sonko March 13, 2015 11:00 PM GMT
Coneygree wins thrilling Cheltenham Gold Cup

Coneygree held on in a thrilling finish to become the first novice to win the Cheltenham Gold Cup since 1974.
Nico de Boinville guided the 7-1 chance to the front early on and then held off the challenge of Djakadam and Road To Riches in the closing stages.
"It's unbelievable; words can't describe it," De Boinville told BBC Radio 5 live. "He dug deep but I always knew he had enough left."
Retiring 19-time champion AP McCoy finished ninth on Carlingford Lough.
Favourite Silviniaco Conti threatened at one stage but could not stay in touch when the pace quickened and finished seventh.
"I knew when we got here this morning we were in trouble," said McCoy, who will end his career with two Gold Cup wins.
The making of a novice champion   
Coneygree was bred by the late former broadcaster and jockey Lord Oaksey
Jockey Nico de Boinville was riding in a top-level Grade One chase for the first time
Oaksey's daughter Sara Bradstock is the wife of Coneygree's trainer Mark Bradstock
Coneygree has bounced back from suffering two serious injuries to the same hind leg
Sara Bradstock is also the assistant trainer
This was only Coneygree's fourth run over fences
"He's a horse that likes good ground and for a horse that's slow but has a bit of speed at the end of his race, he doesn't like it when it turns into a drag."
Coneygree becomes the first novice steeplechaser - a horse that has not won over fences before the start of the season - since Captain Christy 41 years ago to win chasing's blue riband prize.
McCoy added: "It was an unbelievable performance from a novice chaser. He got them at it early and stuck at it well."
Coneygree thrived in the soft ground after overnight rain and made most of the running in only his fourth race over fences.
Carlingford Lough ridden by jockey Tony McCoy
McCoy finished ninth on Carlingford Lough in his final Gold Cup before retirement
"It was very dependent on the ground," trainer Mark Bradstock told 5 live. "If we hadn't had the rain, he could easily have been a non-runner."
Despite the field closing in on the home straight, the eight-year-old retained the lead up the hill and beat Djakadam by a length and a half, with Road To Riches two lengths back in third and Holywell in fourth.
"I'm numb, it's wonderful," added Bradstock, who has a small stable of about 10 horses in Oxfordshire.
"It won't sink in for a while, but it's great.
"We've done it before in smaller races and we'll still keep doing it, but it's fantastic to do it on the big stage."
De Boinville, a professional jockey for barely a year, added: "I always knew I could do it, but good horses make good jockeys.
"I'm just so grateful to the owners for keeping the faith, because there are so many big-name jockeys out there who I respect and who could and would have ridden him but they kept the faith in me.
"I'll be eternally grateful to them."
BBC horse racing correspondent Cornelius Lysaght
"A big result this for national hunt racing. In recent years, a sport that prides itself on its amateur, rural roots has caught the eye of more and more multi-millionaires, who've been prepared to spend their big bucks to assemble vast strings, and threaten domination.
"There's nothing wrong with that as such, after all they are prepared to invest in horses rather than other activities, but some have feared for racing's soul.
"However, from a tiny family-run operation and ridden by a talented but little-known jockey, Coneygree has done more than enough to restore faith. "
 

bbc suck again
Report Autocue March 15, 2015 7:49 PM GMT
Very well done IS. Kudos spotting him as GC winner over two years ago. Also well played the Bradstocks for ignoring the naysayers.
Report BarryM March 16, 2015 12:56 PM GMT
I've just had a look at the times - apologies if this has been raised already, but WOW. Conygree did it 2 seconds faster than Lord Windermere last year. When you consider the relative ground, that's amazing. He was about 30 secs faster than Bobsworth, when the ground admittedly might have been (very slightly) worse.

I'm coming round to the view that Silvianaco Conti has pretty much run up to the form of his previous Cheltenham appearances. This was a very good Gold Cup imho.
Report ReaseHeath March 16, 2015 7:23 PM GMT
^ that is impressive - Nico De Boinville deserves credit too for setting the right pace for his horse and sufficient to take most of the opposition out of their comfort zone.

There was a reverse angle shot on the C4 highlights show of the finish and it struck me that Ruby seemed to be working much harder than Nico - I honestly think Coneygree might've found a bit more if he'd been racing closer to Djakadam and R2R.

I hope there's more excitement to come from him - there is a slight concern that the race was so gruelling that he might not be able to reproduce a similar performance but his demeanour post race - and the following morning when he seemed mostly concerned with trying to eat everything in site as opposed to posing for the cameras - suggests that he came out of the race well in the immediate aftermath - I'm pleased they're putting him away for the season and not asking him to run in the Bowl at Aintree.

Worth adding that the 2nd,3rd and 4th also ran superb races.
Report ReaseHeath March 16, 2015 7:24 PM GMT
everything in sight,ffs - my spelling is more regressive than Bob's Worth!
Report Harvester March 16, 2015 8:35 PM GMT
I agree Rease... particularly glad that they've put him away for the season. You've got to think after GC win and his performance at Kempton on Boxing Day that he will be in for KG this year... which could lead to a mouthwatering clash with Vautour Grin
Report ladycarla March 19, 2015 1:24 PM GMT
The time is amazing when you consider it was only 2 secs slower than Best Mate's fastest gold cup time, best mate were 4/1 for his 2nd gold cup straight after he won his first so 8/1 I've had some on already.
Report gutfeeling March 19, 2015 4:47 PM GMT
Spotting a Gold Cup horse in it's novice hurdle season, Take a bow Ibrahama, Great stuff and I do hope you backed the balls off him.
Report buddeliea March 19, 2015 5:13 PM GMT
Quiet clear to me that this years Gold cup was a fair way better than the last few. A lot of horses came into this race with fair e/w chances,Coneygree put paid to most of them by halfway!!
Yes the ground probably helped Coneygree destroy most of the field but we did have Many clouds amongst the also runs who would have been fine on the ground.
Credit must be given to the horses that managed to make a race of it,Djakadam,RTR and Holywell all come out the race with flying colours,and I must admit to getting Holywell wrong,he would have gone very close on decent ground I would think. I did expect big runs from the 2nd and 3rd though,and those front 4 all will have good chances next year for sure.
See Nichols has gone back to the flat track excuse again,what he said about SC couple of years ago,he was right then and is right now.
Still the King George should be interesting!!

Next years GC should be a cracker, first 4 this year plus Don Poli and hopefully Vautour.
Report Ibrahima Sonko March 20, 2015 10:09 PM GMT
What was Djakadam Hennessey run all about ?

More pleasing was that the gold cup was not run on really soft ground, it was raw wet but not soft heading towards very soft. SO maybe Coneygree can go on g/s ?

Still think its wrong to rate Djakadam within 1lb(1point) of Coneygree just because Djakadam is 6.
Report Ibrahima Sonko April 17, 2015 8:37 PM BST
Coneygree raised without running so now he is the joint top novice chaser Crazy
Report timtin April 17, 2015 11:48 PM BST
Relative justice made from Timeform, you cannot have a Gold Cup winner in such fashion rated lower than a horse who ran a novice race. RP has him 4 pounds higher and official handicappers have him 1 pound better than Vautour.
Report Ibrahima Sonko April 18, 2015 8:40 PM BST
yep, was a total disservice.

Imagine if coneygree was trained by nicholls or mullins he would be rated 180+
Report brandyontherocks April 21, 2015 11:00 PM BST
^^^^^      Absolute rubbish.

You can only rate him with the horses he had beat.
A genuine 170 horse in Road To Riches and a horse that had just won a handicap off 145.

Where on earth are you digging 180+ from ffs
Report Ibrahima Sonko April 24, 2015 9:16 AM BST
Right, so you can ignore his novice status and rate him against a run of one horse, so under your rules and using the same method where does the run of Silviniaco Conti put him ?
Report brandyontherocks April 24, 2015 7:11 PM BST
No I'm rating him through the 2nd, Djakadam, a winner of a handicap off 145. The 3rd, Road To Riches, a 170 horse. Through the 4th, Holywell, a horse that has never proven to be better than a low 160 horse.

If you a rating him through Silviniaco running up to his best rating then fair enough.
Report Ibrahima Sonko April 26, 2015 9:21 PM BST
I think we are the same side of the coin,  ie arguing the toss.

you mention a 145 winner but he has won off 145 is totally irreverent its the mark he was adjusted too.

I was just mentioning the flat track SC as an example on how ratings can be read if you want them too.

I cannot find the rating jack a dam after his good win, in england he would had gone 20lb.
Report ladycarla October 26, 2015 5:05 PM GMT
Coneygree runs sunday at carliseShocked
Report cufcno1 October 27, 2015 1:41 AM GMT
Hope so,tickets already booked !
Report shockster November 5, 2015 10:53 AM GMT
Looks like running on Sunday and then the Hennessey.  Not entered for the King George which was a surprise, but turns out they had an issue with their computer and missed the deadline.  They say probably wouldn't have run at Kempton anyway but if they decide to run now it will cost £10k to be supplemented.
Report stevo1 November 6, 2015 5:26 AM GMT
Is Harry Redknapp the racing manager?
Report buddeliea November 7, 2015 7:20 AM GMT
8 still available for gold cup,worse prices around right now.
Report shockster November 7, 2015 11:38 AM GMT
If I knew it was going to be soft in March then I'd back Coneygree, but on good he's vulnerable to the speedier sorts.  If most of the top horses make it to Cheltenham then i reckon he'll be 5 or 6/1 anyway.  So think it's worth waiting IMO.
Report shockster November 8, 2015 5:01 PM GMT
Excellent comeback win and jumped great again.  It will take an exceptional performance to beat this fellow if it's soft.
Report wellchief November 10, 2015 10:53 AM GMT
Agree entirely Shockster. If it is soft he will take the world of beating and could go off at a very short price. Cannot be an antepost bet though in case it came up good.

Because Vautour and Don prefer it good and Coney prefers it Soft, the Gold Cup surely has to be a bet on the day race.
Report buddeliea November 10, 2015 5:03 PM GMT
Fair points Chief, but personally I am willing to take the risk on it being at least good to soft,which I think Coneygree will be fine on and shorter than 8's on the day.
He was extremely impressive in March,and no reason why he cannot improve on that with more experience behind him.
Vautour aint an antepost bet anyway,at least not right now.
Don Cossack is not much value either,bit short imo for a horse who has for me a ? at Cheltenham.
Report Ibrahima Sonko November 14, 2015 9:51 PM GMT
he will always go off a bigger price than he should do as he is not trained by the media elite.

Trying to work out what price he will go off for the Hennessey, i can only see one horse beating him.

I reckon 5/2 or near to 2/1 as it maybe a smaller field than usual.
Report buddeliea November 15, 2015 9:47 AM GMT
Well Newbury looks like being soft at least by the weather forecasts,so I expect him to run them into the ground.
Have a feeling hes better than his rating.
Report x20 November 16, 2015 6:59 PM GMT
matched at 14/1 today
Report x20 November 16, 2015 7:00 PM GMT
for the henessey
Lads taken the market down
Report gutfeeling November 16, 2015 7:35 PM GMT
Spread a plate. Unlikely to run in Hennessy.
Report shockster November 18, 2015 10:42 AM GMT
From DAVID YATES

CONEYGREE was last night “60-40 against” to make the Hennessy Gold Cup on Saturday week – as Leopardstown’s Lexus Gold Cup emerged as a surprise Christmas option for the star chaser.
A foot injury has placed the Cheltenham Gold Cup hero’s Newbury participation in doubt – Coneygree is now an uneasy 5-1 chance for the Hennessy - with husband-and-wife training team Mark and Sara Bradstock monitoring the eight-year-old’s progress ahead of a make-or-break gallop on Saturday.
“At the moment, I’d say he’s 60-40 against to make the Hennessy,” Sara Bradstock said last night.
“He is putting weight on the leg – his left-hind – but we are waiting to see whether it’s a bruise or an abscess.
“If it’s an abscess, we can drain it, but if it’s a bruise, it will take longer.”
A “computer glitch” meant Coneygree’s name did not appear among the entries for the William Hill King George VI Chase at Kempton Park on Boxing Day, meaning connections would have to stump up a £10,000 supplementary fee to add him to the race.
But the Lexus Chase two days later is now under consideration for Coneygree, an impressive victor at Sandown Park on his return to action 10 days ago.
“The Lexus is a race that has been won by some gallopers rather than speed horses, and it’s a very fair jumping track,” added Sara Bradstock.
Report Harvester November 18, 2015 11:57 AM GMT
The Coneygree situation is getting frustrating.. personally i dont know why they're so obsessed with the hennessy.. they just need to stump up £10k and get to the KG and put Vautour and Don Cossack in their places!
Report Arklearkle November 18, 2015 2:40 PM GMT
Cant understand the obsession with the Hennessy either and if anything will give him a hard race. I dont believe the 10K to be the problem either.
Report Eeternaloptimist November 18, 2015 4:53 PM GMT
I'd imagine he's nailed on to get cut in Ireland but that isn't always the case at Kempton. The Lexus would seem a good option.
Report buddeliea November 24, 2015 7:32 PM GMT
Blessing in disguise missing the Hennessey?
Reckon it could well be.
Lexus or Kg and then the Gold Cup, maybe the Argento in between?Sounds ok to me.
Report p_r_e_m_i_e_r__f_a_n_t_a_s_y November 24, 2015 8:26 PM GMT
No the Hennessy was the ideal race for him
Report buddeliea November 24, 2015 8:42 PM GMT
Not saying it wasn't , but missing it may just help him later in the season.
Just a thought .
Report daveygfc November 24, 2015 8:43 PM GMT
Mark Bradstock said in a sky sports article the other day that the Lexus would be the more sensible route rather than King George if he didn't make the Hennessey.
Report buddeliea November 24, 2015 8:47 PM GMT
Yeh,Lexus is another Grade 1 race,and should suit him nicely.
Report Harvester November 24, 2015 10:27 PM GMT
I don't get it... Was bradstock not watching him at kempton last boxing day when he won by ... 40LL and nearly every other horse had been jumped into the ground! Complete demolition job.
Report buddeliea November 25, 2015 6:57 AM GMT
Makes sense to me to enter both and then see how the ground is near the time.
Report Ibrahima Sonko December 3, 2015 10:56 PM GMT
He would win both, hope he is healthy and well to take up the challenge.
Report Ibrahima Sonko December 16, 2015 5:15 PM GMT
Mark Bradstock's brilliant eight-year-old, who looked so impressive on his return to action at Sandown in November, had been in the frame to run over Christmas in either the King George VI Chase at Kempton or in the Lexus Chase at Leopardstown.

But trainer Mark Bradstock's plans have been derailed after his stable star suffered what is believed to be slab fractures in both hocks, with the injury not thought to be career-threatening.

Coneygree has been taken out of the ante-post betting for the Gold Cup in March and has gone to Newmarket for further veterinary assessment.

Sara Bradstock, the Oxfordshire trainer's wife and assistant, said: "He is injured and will not run in the King George or the Lexus. The Christmas run is out.

"I've just loaded him on to the horsebox myself and he on his way to Newmarket to be reassessed.

"He is in no distress and walked on to the box sound. The vets at Newmarket will have a good look at him and we'll see what they discover - it will be a day or two before we have any news.

"They'll probably scan him and we'll see what the extent of the damage is.

"We know the engine is there, but the long legs that serve him so well on the racecourse are a little bit fragile.

"Everyone knows I think the world of this horse, which is why we're being careful.

"There will be no corners cut. He will be back, but at this stage I can't tell you when that will be."

Coneygree missed an intended appearance in last month's Hennessy Gold Cup at Newbury after he suffered a foot problem, but Sara Bradstock said the latest setback was unrelated.

Coneygree's finest hour at Cheltenham saw him become the first novice to win the Gold Cup in 41 years, after Captain Christy in 1974.

He was ridden by Nico de Boinville, who said: "Obviously it is very disappointing, especially for the whole Bradstock team at home and connections, as he has been such a superstar horse.

"That's horse racing for you, it's what makes the good days worthwhile.

"All I know is that he will miss the King George and he is off to the vets in Newmarket as we speak for further assessment."

Sad
Report Ibrahima Sonko July 22, 2016 9:17 PM BST
The Mark Bradstock-trained nine year old is reported to have made a full recovery from the season-ending hock injury sustained in his build up towards an an outing over Christmas in either the King George at Kempton or the Lexus Chase at Leopardstown.

It was the second setback he had suffered in a truncated campaign after spreading a plate in the lead up towards a shot at the Hennessy Gold Cup just days after bolting up on his return to action in an intermediate chase at Sandown.

Although plans are yet to be firmed up the three-mile Grade Two chase on October 29 has been earmarked as one of a number of potential starting points for Coneygree, who became the first novice chaser since Captain Christy in 1974 to win the Gold Cup.

Sara Bradstock, assistant trainer, said: "He is great and is in very good form. He is cantering and has done a bit of jumping in the school.

"He is having a summer holiday but we have just kept riding him as we don't want him to lose the muscle he has gained during his rehabilitation .

"He has three days off then I ride him for a day. He feels great and in two to three weeks time he will come back into proper training.

"It really all depends on the weather as to where we start him. We might run in the Charlie Hall if they get the rain up there at that point.

"Who knows, we might go to Haydock (Betfair Chase) as we might be tempted by the bonus.


"There is no point risking him as he is fragile enough as it is and he won't run on anything faster than the soft side of good. Hopefully we don't have a long Indian Summer."

Despite having a lengthy absence to overcome connections are confident that he still retains the ability required to be given a campaign tailored around trying to regain his Gold Cup title at Prestbury Park in March.

Bradstock added: "The vets are delighted with him and Nico (de Boinville) had a jump on him and he is delighted. There is every reason to be optimistic we still have the same horse.

"There was talk of trying to get him back for this year's Gold Cup but there was no point in getting him back and breaking him as that would have broken him for good.

"He is nine but he should go on at 10, 11 and 12 as he has relatively few miles on the clock.

"It is lovely for people like us to breed a horse that can take on those of the likes owned by Gigginstown Stud and Rich Ricci.

"I've told him that he has got to go win it again (Gold Cup) as I don't remember the last one as it was all a blur."
Report Makybe_Diva July 22, 2016 10:44 PM BST
Thanks for posting that, Sonko Happy
Report Ibrahima Sonko October 23, 2016 8:37 PM BST
Mark Bradstock's nine-year-old became the first novice in 41 years to claim the blue riband in March of last year, but has not been seen in competitive action since running at Sandown last November.

Next week's West Yorkshire showpiece was mooted as a possible comeback target, but with the ground considered unsuitable, connections have decided to wait and the Betfair Chase at Haydock on November 19 is now his most likely starting point.

The trainer's wife and assistant, Sara Bradstock, said: "He won't be entered for the Charlie Hall. We've said all along he'd only go there if that was the only place he'd get soft ground.

"Haydock is our main aim and the Charlie Hall is also pretty close to that.

"He's in good nick, so fingers crossed we'll have him ready for that (Betfair Chase).

"He's going really well, but obviously we're desperate for some rain so we can get him on the grass. He's only worked on the all-weather so far because the ground has been so firm."

Coneygree is the 4/1 second favourite for the Betfair Chase with .

Wetherby's clerk of the course Jonjo Sanderson is not anticipating any significant rainfall between now and next weekend.

He said: "The forecast is fairly dry, but it's not particularly drying weather. We have clear nights, so we're getting a heavy dew and plenty of moisture in the ground.

"The ground is good, good to soft in places in the back straight and there is an odd shower forecast midweek.

"If we have to water to maintain good ground we will, but I don't think it would take much."


Im pleased he is not going to running at gaff track where the ground is always fast, hopefully he will be entered in the Hennessey.
Report Makybe_Diva October 24, 2016 7:37 PM BST
Thanks again, Sonko Happy
Report Ibrahima Sonko November 4, 2017 10:33 AM GMT
Coneygree's participation in the bet365 Charlie Hall Chase at Wetherby on Saturday was given a boost after overnight rain in Yorkshire.

While the West Yorkshire track did not receive the downpours seen in some local areas, the three millimetres which did fall was gladly accepted.

"It's very good news," said assistant trainer Sara Bradstock.

"I've been told all along the ground is likely to be good to soft and if that is the case, off we go.

"He'll be better for the run, but this race could have been framed for him to make his comeback.

Clerk of the course Jonjo Sanderson explained that while neighbouring villages saw more rain than actually fell at the track, conditions should be almost perfect for the returning stars, with Cue Card, More Of That, Definitly Red and Bristol De Mai in the mix.

"We actually had five millimetres at Tockwith where I live just down the road, but the track only got three," said Sanderson.

"Nevertheless, while I would have liked a bit more, it was gratefully received.

"I've just walked it at noon and it is predominantly soft and good to soft in places.

"I can't see it changing much to be honest. The forecast is settled for cold nights, heavy dews and very little wind through the day so not particularly drying conditions."


I really want him to run in Hennessey at Newbury but i would imagine they will take betfair chase route. Shame the new sponsors didnt offer the same bonus.
Report eric_morris November 5, 2017 10:16 AM GMT
Posted on here after the Gold Cup he had too hard a race for a novice and it would ruin the horse. Unfortunately I was right. One Gold Cup or a long career? Connections risked it for the former was it worth it or would he have won the RSA then a couple of Gold Cups in time?
Report firstimevisor November 5, 2017 2:15 PM GMT
Very harsh and unfair eric morris. This horse has been plagued with issues all his life.

He had already been off the track for almost 2 years before his novice chase season so he clearly had issues already.

He next run,8 months after the Gold Cup and after his summer break was in November of that year where he looked,jumped and travelled like a dream and won in a canter - there was nothing wrong with him then, he was 100% fine.He showed no ill effects whatsoever of running in the Gold Cup

Since then its been stop/start again and again, but that would have been the case whatever route he had gone down in his novice chase season, We see horses every year who stick to the novice route but get career ending injuries anyway. Coneygree's problems have nothing to do with running in that Gold Cup
Report eric_morris November 5, 2017 7:58 PM GMT
Beating Seventh Sky 25l at odds of 1/4 in a 3 horse race is not an indication the horse was performing under the same sort of front running pressure in top company that he faced as a novice in the Gold Cup.

That race clearly ruined him as has been demonstrated since. The harshness of that race is embedded in his mind he doesnt want it now.

123P beaten 15l by Cue Card before being beaten by Sizing John and Djakadam everyone can see he doesnt want it any more. It is a lesson for those that want front running novices to run themselves into the ground against seasoned chasers instead of staying in novice company to gain experience gradually not only physically but mentally.
Report cyclops November 5, 2017 9:31 PM GMT
His run at Punchestown was brilliant. If you think that was a horse who "doesn't want it" I would strongly disagree.
Report firstimevisor November 5, 2017 9:48 PM GMT
The horse was off the track for 22 months between his novice hurdle and novice chase campaigns. That had nothing to do with with the Gold Cup but had everything to do with the fragility of the horse.

His run after winning the Gold Cup at least demonstrated that he was physically and mentally 100% fine at the start of the new season.

Your claim that the Gold Cup " clearly ruined him as has been demonstrated since" cannot be backed up with any logic.

Don Cossack didn't run again after winning the GC the following year but he was a third season chaser when he won.

Our Duke was a top novice last year who avoided Cheltenham altogether yet he was tailed off when pulled up yesterday on his comeback run.

The point is any horse can go wrong at any time. The 2015 Gold Cup was as much the cause of Coneygree's problems since 2016 as it  was the cause of his problems for the 2 years before 2015...in other words zero cause.
Report buddeliea November 7, 2017 9:53 AM GMT
As has been said,Horse is simply fragile.
If he were to turn up In march fit with soft in the going he will be a big runner.
Report eric_morris December 2, 2017 3:40 PM GMT
Yep connections have ruined the horse running him into the ground as a novice making the running in a gruelling Gold Cup.
Report Autocue December 3, 2017 11:27 AM GMT
He reached his peak as a novice and won the gold cup so it was obviously the right decision to run him back then. He was a mature horse at eight years old and a brilliant and reliable jumper.
Report cyclops December 4, 2017 5:00 PM GMT
Ruined the horse by winning a Gold Cup?
Ironic to say the least. Most would happily retire a horse on the spot if that were the price of winning a Gold Cup.
And it should not be forgotten that he ran one of his best ever races last May at Punchestown; right up there with his best performances.
Report eric_morris December 5, 2017 11:19 PM GMT
Could have won far more Grade 1’s with dis haarse if he was given time mentally over fences. His run behind Djakadam just reminded him of the slog that he was introduced to too early as a novice and was an underperformance and the start of his decline.
Report Autocue December 7, 2017 1:08 PM GMT
"His run behind Djakadam just reminded him of the slog" Are you claiming to be a horse mind reader?
Report Can't Catch Me December 7, 2017 1:22 PM GMT
Ruined the horse by winning a Gold Cup

Laugh
Report eric_morris December 7, 2017 1:51 PM GMT
The difference with this horse is he gains his confidence by front running and fights off all-comers. If he had a different running style it would not have affected him so much mentally being beaten in Ireland and forcing himself to did as deep as possible in the Gold Cup.

If you view a Gold Cup win as worth winning while runing the horse as a novice then thats fine. You are seeing the results of it now.
If he had run in an RSA (he’d have won by a fence without having such a hard race) then gradually built up against the seniors the following year he could have picked up many Grade 1’s on the way and be going for multiple Gold Cups instead of being a one season chaser.
Report Can't Catch Me December 7, 2017 1:57 PM GMT
If he had run in an RSA (he’d have won by a fence without having such a hard race) then gradually built up against the seniors the following year he could have picked up many Grade 1’s on the way and be going for multiple Gold Cups instead of being a one season chaser.

Pure conjecture and complete guesswork. He could have had a gruelling race in the RSA and been exactly the same horse now, but without a Gold Cup on his CV. He could have picked up an injury at any time. Most peoples dream when they buy a horse, is that one day it will win the GC.
Report firstimevisor December 7, 2017 2:40 PM GMT
And when he won the GC he made the running and didn't see another horse. If he had run in the RSA instead wouldn't he have gone off at the same pace? So maybe you think the extra furlong of the GC was the game changer.
Report duffy December 7, 2017 5:16 PM GMT
If they'd have been given this scenario at the start of his chasing campaign they'd have said, thank you very much we'll have some of that.
Report cyclops December 7, 2017 6:33 PM GMT
Extraordinary theorising eric.

"If he had a different running style it would not have affected him so much mentally being beaten in Ireland"

Haven't heard anyone else advance that one. His run at Punchestown was absolutely superb - one of his best ever runs; possibly his best ever, given the ground was not ideal for him. To attribute his two poor runs this season to that defeat is very strange.
Report eric_morris December 7, 2017 7:22 PM GMT
Lots of excuses coming out for the horse now from connections. They cant have it both ways they have had their glory day. The horse started his decline in Ireland and it has continued imo.
Report firstimevisor December 7, 2017 7:50 PM GMT
The horse started his decline in Ireland and it has continued imo

But you have been saying the Gold Cup was the reason for his decline, and that was nearly 3 years ago. And he had been injured for almost 2 years before his Gold Cup.
So isn't it true to say lots of excuses have been coming out for 6 years now because basically he's an unsound horse and they should thank their lucky stars every day that they ran him in that Gold Cup.
Report Ibrahima Sonko December 7, 2017 7:58 PM GMT
Think connections are running out of excuses now, one more run then retirement please.
Report eric_morris December 8, 2017 12:25 AM GMT
Exactlt IS
Report buddeliea February 15, 2018 8:01 AM GMT
Another setback,out for the season.
One last go next season they say,as horse still showing plenty of enthusiasm.
I really hope they can get another season.

As Sarah Bradstock says....thank god we never listened to those people a few years ago, we would be talking about a RSA winner and not a Gold Cup one.
Report Callisto-moon February 15, 2018 10:59 AM GMT
love the horse, hope he gets one more pop at it.
Report eric_morris February 17, 2018 11:41 AM GMT
Traditional campaign-

Denman

24 runs (14 runs after RSA Chase)
RSA Chase winner
Gold Cup as full chaser, 4 runs: 1 win, 3 seconds
Hennessy, 3 runs: 2 wins, 1 third

Prize money £1,141,347


Gold Cup as a novice-

Coneygree

15 runs (5 runs after Gold Cup, PU in last 2)
Gold Cup as a front-running novice, 1 run (missed next 2): 1 win
Hennessy, 1 run pulled up

Prize money £520,223
Report eric_morris February 17, 2018 12:08 PM GMT
Denman's first Gold Cup was also brutal against Kauto but he had a year after the RSA developing his strength physically and experience mentally to deal with it. Full career afterwards as a result.
Report p_r_e_m_i_e_r__f_a_n_t_a_s_y February 17, 2018 12:28 PM GMT
You fail to mention that Coneygree was a fragile horse before he won his Gold Cup hence him missing a season after his novice hurdle campaign but that doesn't suit your agenda does it?

The fact is Coneygree has always been made of glass and running and winning that Gold Cup made zero bloody difference to that.
Report eric_morris February 17, 2018 12:37 PM GMT
There is a reason top novice chasers don't normally run in the Gold Cup. Nobody created that situation, it isnt an agenda it is a case of just looking at facts. Some choose not to ignore past history as a guide. They won a Gold Cup well done. As an owner there is no doubt most would go for a longer campaign to maximise a horses career and chances of winning more top class races. If anything Coneygree demonstrates the price to be paid.
Report p_r_e_m_i_e_r__f_a_n_t_a_s_y February 17, 2018 12:42 PM GMT
So the only reason Coneygree was injury prone was down to running in the Gold Cup as a novice in your eyes despite the fact he missed a whole season injured before running in that Gold Cup.

Absolute ballacks
Report eric_morris February 17, 2018 12:49 PM GMT
Even more reason for running him in the RSA imo makes the decision even worse. Excuses all the time now. Look at history it doesnt lie.
Report Desmond Orchard February 17, 2018 12:56 PM GMT
Denman was found to have a heart problem after his monsterous Gold Cup performance.
Despite a very good career following that run, he was never the same horse again. A poor example.
The fact is, after winning the unique challenge that is a Gold Cup, particularly in the style that Coneygree or Denman did it - seeing off all comers from the front and just crushing the field - takes a huge and often unrepeatable effort.
Report p_r_e_m_i_e_r__f_a_n_t_a_s_y February 17, 2018 12:57 PM GMT
The horse is finished and should be retired.

Had he ran in an RSA Chase he may have won but then he may not have even won that as the rain arrived on Gold Cup day which was a massive help for him. He then missed next years festival after hacking up impressively at Sandown, granted it was hardly a Gold Cup class race the previous seasons Gold Cup didn't seem to have left it's mark too badly.

Your argument is utter bullshat, after all these years you'd think you would have stopped spouting bullshat, I guess not.
Report buddeliea February 17, 2018 1:07 PM GMT
No doubt in my mind the same thing would have happened had he ran in the RSA instead of the Gold Cup.
Horse was prone to injuries before that season and since that season.
That was probably his best season fitness wise.and they took full advantage of that, fair play to them.
They have a Gold Cup winner instead of an RSA winner.
Report p_r_e_m_i_e_r__f_a_n_t_a_s_y February 17, 2018 1:11 PM GMT
spot on
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