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Even in the big weekend races - fields been dismantled with late withdrawls.
The Jewson has made ante post betting a lottery. Captain Connan 7-1 for the Arkle (books) with Simonsig lurking! RSA betting just as bad with Sir Des Champs and Peddlers both switching late - bookies must be laughing at newcomers to the game.
The Jewson has made ante post betting a lottery. Captain Connan 7-1 for the Arkle (books) with Simonsig lurking! RSA betting just as bad with Sir Des Champs and Peddlers both switching late - bookies must be laughing at newcomers to the game.
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The Jewson has ruined ante post punts on novice chasers.
It used to be 2m Arkle, 3m Royal sunalliance.
This sham of a 2m5f race is making things very hard.
It used to be 2m Arkle, 3m Royal sunalliance.
This sham of a 2m5f race is making things very hard.
Races aren't run at the Festival to suit antepost gamblers, they are run to suit horses - which is the way it should be.
They are run to maximize profit.
Wont be long till we have a 2m4f hurdle
Mares only chase
veterans 3m chase
etc
Wont be long till we have a 2m4f hurdle
Mares only chase
veterans 3m chase
etc
Theres plenty of races one can get involved antepost,the more tricky ones can be left till nearer the time i reckon.
This could be wrong, but aren't AP bets a tiny percentage of the total bets struck on Festival races?
Eboue - you make a good point, but racing has to be run to make a profit or the sport can't exist. FWIW, I think a mares chase would be an excellent idea (as breeding good NH horses ought to be important to us), and a Veterans Chase could be hugely popular (much more so than, say, the Byrne Plate).
Eboue - you make a good point, but racing has to be run to make a profit or the sport can't exist. FWIW, I think a mares chase would be an excellent idea (as breeding good NH horses ought to be important to us), and a Veterans Chase could be hugely popular (much more so than, say, the Byrne Plate).
Sorry if I'm sounding like a grumpy git...
But I dont take any enjoyment out of the 4 (soon to be 5) day festival.
3 days was perfection. The four day festival is now a watered down event.
But I dont take any enjoyment out of the 4 (soon to be 5) day festival.
3 days was perfection. The four day festival is now a watered down event.
Thats worded poorly. I love the festival but I dont enjoy the new races.
Oddly, I don't like some of the older ones - Kim Muir, Pertemps, Byrne, whereas I think the Ryanair and Jewson are excellent additons. I could live without the XC, the Pipe hurdle, or the 2 1/2 m novice handicap chase though.
GAME OF OPINIONS BUT MINE IS WE SHOULD HAVE A CUT OFF DATE FOR FINAL ENTRIES.
Never been a fan of the Ryanair myself. For me it dilutes the Champion Chase and Gold Cup too much. See the top 2 in the betting are Cue Card and Finians Rainbow, horses with their ability should be contesting the championship races. If they want to try the Gold Cup trip then fair play to them but if they dont think they will stay then they should be in the Champion Chase and not the Ryanair. If the festival was this week then you would imagine CC and FR would be in the Ryaiair, but they would be the 3rd and 4th favourites in the Champion Chase, and this is going to be a recurring theme i fear especially in the 2 mile chase division as you always seem to get 1 or 2 superstars who dominate e.g. Moscow Flyer, Azertiyop, Master Minded and now it looks theres another in Sprinter Sacre so apart from the horse who would be 2nd fav and have a chance of beating the fav the would be 3rd/4th/5th/6th favs are just going to duck the race and go for the Ryanair.
You just got to look through the ante post lists for the champion chase this year, 2nd,3rd and 5th favs will all probably duck a clash with Sprinter, if he comes out and spanks Sanctuaire then i really hope im wrong be can see a 4/5 runner field with SS going off 1/5 which is not what the festival is about.
You just got to look through the ante post lists for the champion chase this year, 2nd,3rd and 5th favs will all probably duck a clash with Sprinter, if he comes out and spanks Sanctuaire then i really hope im wrong be can see a 4/5 runner field with SS going off 1/5 which is not what the festival is about.
i can guarantee that FR wont be running in the rynair his owner not having it
strontium Joined: 21 Sep 05
Replies: 3216 18 Nov 12 17:51
Races aren't run at the Festival to suit antepost gamblers, they are run to suit horses - which is the way it should be.
I'm with Eboue here.
Races at the Festival seem to be run in order to justify it being four days.
Replies: 3216 18 Nov 12 17:51
Races aren't run at the Festival to suit antepost gamblers, they are run to suit horses - which is the way it should be.
I'm with Eboue here.
Races at the Festival seem to be run in order to justify it being four days.
i want him to run in one of the other races,preferably the Gold Cup as i have a wager on that!!
Plus in the QM he would add interest to the race for sure.
Would hate the QM to be a virtual walkover
Plus in the QM he would add interest to the race for sure.
Would hate the QM to be a virtual walkover
I'm not a traditionalist but I can see the rationale for the anti 4 day brigade. It doesn't really bother me at all and like someone said, in this day and age when you have a good product you need to take full financial advantage ( sponsors, courses I'm talking about ).
As far as the OP is concerned, I have absolutely no problem with the Jewson, personally think it will become more and more influential. I can understand its either Arkle or RSA from an AP point of view otherwise, but as far as horses are concerned, I think most will agree that the RSA can be quite attritional and leave its mark. It hasn't yet got the prestige but I think that may change in the coming years.
However the possible negative effect of these new races to my mind is the paucity of competitive quality racing post Xmas. Because there's nearly always now a race for a decent animal to go for at Cheltenham, they perhaps miss races they could go for. That in turn is a problem for AP betting in those races when horses get entries that then are not taken up - Hold On Julio last year is one that springs to mind.
Anyway the cards are dealt and we just have to do the best we can
As far as the OP is concerned, I have absolutely no problem with the Jewson, personally think it will become more and more influential. I can understand its either Arkle or RSA from an AP point of view otherwise, but as far as horses are concerned, I think most will agree that the RSA can be quite attritional and leave its mark. It hasn't yet got the prestige but I think that may change in the coming years.
However the possible negative effect of these new races to my mind is the paucity of competitive quality racing post Xmas. Because there's nearly always now a race for a decent animal to go for at Cheltenham, they perhaps miss races they could go for. That in turn is a problem for AP betting in those races when horses get entries that then are not taken up - Hold On Julio last year is one that springs to mind.
Anyway the cards are dealt and we just have to do the best we can
2003 was my first festival. It was the best 3 days racing I've had in a decade watching the sport. Azertyuiop, Rooster Booster, Moscow flyer, Baracouda and Best Mate. Truly magical days.
I was surrounded by 50,000 people who had genuine passion for racing. There were no day trippers having a quid each way on a 9/4 fav. People were there to revel in the best of our sport. I noticed a lack of women.
Now you go up and women are everywhere. I'm sure a few know the difference between a 2m chase and a 3m hurdle race but they are few and far between. It's now become so bloody commercialised. I don't want my view of the racing spoilt by some pi55ed up dolt on a stag do.
It wont be long until the 5 day festival.
In 2003 I would have bought life membership for the festival if it were available.
Now for the first time I'm seriously thinking of not going next March.
I was surrounded by 50,000 people who had genuine passion for racing. There were no day trippers having a quid each way on a 9/4 fav. People were there to revel in the best of our sport. I noticed a lack of women.
Now you go up and women are everywhere. I'm sure a few know the difference between a 2m chase and a 3m hurdle race but they are few and far between. It's now become so bloody commercialised. I don't want my view of the racing spoilt by some pi55ed up dolt on a stag do.
It wont be long until the 5 day festival.
In 2003 I would have bought life membership for the festival if it were available.
Now for the first time I'm seriously thinking of not going next March.
Sorry you feel like that Mr Eboue.
I went for the first time a couple of years ago, in the end just for the first day and I went with my wife....I'm not helping am I?
But that's when I really fell in love with NH, previously just interested on the whole with the Flat. It was then I saw the raw power and athleticism of these horses.
I don't go racing all that much but I can assure you that Cheltenham was as welcoming and friendly a racecourse I have been to before and since - was at Kempton on Boxing Day and, Kauto Star aside. hated it.
The 'social' side of racing you seem to dislike would remain even if it reverted to 3 days. What still remains is great sport of the highest calibre, perhaps spread a little too thinly. But the star attractions are still going to be there.
I went for the first time a couple of years ago, in the end just for the first day and I went with my wife....I'm not helping am I?
But that's when I really fell in love with NH, previously just interested on the whole with the Flat. It was then I saw the raw power and athleticism of these horses.
I don't go racing all that much but I can assure you that Cheltenham was as welcoming and friendly a racecourse I have been to before and since - was at Kempton on Boxing Day and, Kauto Star aside. hated it.
The 'social' side of racing you seem to dislike would remain even if it reverted to 3 days. What still remains is great sport of the highest calibre, perhaps spread a little too thinly. But the star attractions are still going to be there.
I didn't mean to go off on a sexist rant...
But I am fed up with the commercialised event it has now become.
But I am fed up with the commercialised event it has now become.
I agree to some extent about the relentless commercialism but that is where some of the money required to pay such high prize money comes from. I can't agree about women being a problem. Many of the most enthusiastic and knowledgable racegoers, owners and breeders that I know are women who often have more time to go racing. I join a group of 6 couples for a pre cheltenham dinner on the Monday before the festival and we have a tipping comp. to pick the highest priced winner of the meeting. Women have won for the last 3 years. I tipped Cinders and Ashes this year but still got trumped by Champagne Fever!
I've come to terms with the 4-days.
The racing is what it is and I keep the ante-post bets to an absolute minimum, certainly this far out.
Four days or not, you can't really tell me you didn't get mightily rocked by something like Long Run's Gold Cup win, with the three of them going hammer and tongs over the final fences, or MasterMindeds first Champion Chase win? They stand up against anything served up when it was a three-day event.
However, I do accept that those kind of moments are more difficult to sort out from the - I was going to say 'dross' but that's not really fair - 'lower class shoulder races' which abound now. We can all live without the Martin Pipe Conditional Jockeys race and if a Cross Country race was never run at Cheltenham again I'd be delighted.
I think the soul of the event has been lost though. It was such a nakedly commercial decision to go to four days. It's as though Cheltenham was spitting in the faces of NH fans. They knew they had us by the cojones and boy were they going to squeeze!
Put as many marketing whistles and bells on it as you like.'Ladies Day - to celebrate the contribution of women to NH racing' Oh just fk right off! Jenny Pitman and Venetia Williams weren't jumping up and down demanding 'recognition'. They were / are already respected by true believers. It's a fking marketing gimmick and a crass and blunt one at that.
The racing is what it is and I keep the ante-post bets to an absolute minimum, certainly this far out.
Four days or not, you can't really tell me you didn't get mightily rocked by something like Long Run's Gold Cup win, with the three of them going hammer and tongs over the final fences, or MasterMindeds first Champion Chase win? They stand up against anything served up when it was a three-day event.
However, I do accept that those kind of moments are more difficult to sort out from the - I was going to say 'dross' but that's not really fair - 'lower class shoulder races' which abound now. We can all live without the Martin Pipe Conditional Jockeys race and if a Cross Country race was never run at Cheltenham again I'd be delighted.
I think the soul of the event has been lost though. It was such a nakedly commercial decision to go to four days. It's as though Cheltenham was spitting in the faces of NH fans. They knew they had us by the cojones and boy were they going to squeeze!
Put as many marketing whistles and bells on it as you like.'Ladies Day - to celebrate the contribution of women to NH racing' Oh just fk right off! Jenny Pitman and Venetia Williams weren't jumping up and down demanding 'recognition'. They were / are already respected by true believers. It's a fking marketing gimmick and a crass and blunt one at that.
I've got a couple of ante-post bets on,should know better really!
When Robert Waley-Cohen moved the track for the Gold Cup to the new course for Long Run blew it for me.
When Robert Waley-Cohen moved the track for the Gold Cup to the new course for Long Run blew it for me.
Zarkander,Flemenstar and Long Run(hypocrite i know!)
no fecking chance
You sound like an Irishman Howdi,let me have the BIG outsider!
Two bets for me different reasons:
Riverside Theatre - 28s Rynair an insult of a price win, lose or draw
Big Bucks 6-4 - Should be 1-2 imo. No horse looks capable of finishing a race over 3 miles like him.
Riverside Theatre - 28s Rynair an insult of a price win, lose or draw
Big Bucks 6-4 - Should be 1-2 imo. No horse looks capable of finishing a race over 3 miles like him.
Two class horses,Big Bucks is a monster,not too sure what will beat it...
biggest shame in national hunt racing they dont get that race on.
You think she'd beat the Buckster Slabster?
You think she'd beat the Buckster Slabster?
I wouldn't be confident Howdi but I'd sure love to see her try! 
not my kind of bet but big bucks at around 6/4 is surely a good case for a drip feed £20-30 a week up untill the world hurdle ,evey year we have a "contender " for his crown and it always ends up the same way, big bucks winning the world hurdle ,its amazing really he is imo the" frankel" of the hurdling world yet you can get odds against(for the world hurdle ) about a horse who has won 17 odd races on the bounce and unlike frankel there is no uncertainty over stepping up in distance ect! o.k he is not getting any younger but he only just does enough and has never really looked like getting beat at the distance .looks like de ja vous again next year .or can anyone see anything beating him this time ?
No doubt some people benefit from ante post but the risk of non runners and multiple enries will always make it hazardous. The only point that I can see is a bet before a trial which might dramatically shorten up your fancy. The logical thing is to lay off after the trial and then hope to get back in closer to the race. The only other logic is to take a flyer at a long price on one you fancy or know something about and hope. I was cured of doing this when I had been tipped off about Karanja before it had run and backed it three times at big prices. I laid most of it off and stood at £740/1 at the off. It was 5/1 second fav and Nina fell off at the start! I much prefer getting long prices in running. Oiseau de Nuit at 70 at half way when he won the Grand Annual. Much more satisfying and a longer price than he ever was ante post.
yes i try to do something similar sageform short prices dont appeal to me but they do to others and the target for big bucks is known every year !
Yeah but where is BB 6/4?
Another option is to perhaps double up with other AP bets as well as those singles. If you are that positive about BB its a way of significantly increasing your price.
He comes out in less than 2 weeks, not long before the price will be odds on. 6/4 up to the festival is highly unlikely imo
Another option is to perhaps double up with other AP bets as well as those singles. If you are that positive about BB its a way of significantly increasing your price.
He comes out in less than 2 weeks, not long before the price will be odds on. 6/4 up to the festival is highly unlikely imo
There is going to come a time when he isnt going to show up and/or father time will catch up with him, he's actually been better value on or near the day when you think about the time lag between now and March!!
Besides, having not been to four weddings i dont fancy a short price about a possible funereal
Besides, having not been to four weddings i dont fancy a short price about a possible funereal
Zilzal is correct.
I'd rather take 4/6 on the day when he's fit and healthy as opposed to 11/10 now when anything could happen.
I'd rather take 4/6 on the day when he's fit and healthy as opposed to 11/10 now when anything could happen.
Dunno how anyone can get their rocks off about an ante-post bet on Big Bucks.
"Oh 6/4 is such good value". Well party on my wayward son and each to their own, but if I'm getting stuck into something this far ante-post I want to dream the dream of winning big for (relatively) little outlay.
"Oh 6/4 is such good value". Well party on my wayward son and each to their own, but if I'm getting stuck into something this far ante-post I want to dream the dream of winning big for (relatively) little outlay.
Like I said, each to their own.
Dismiss it as vulgar if you like but how much would you have on or stand to win at that price?
Dismiss it as vulgar if you like but how much would you have on or stand to win at that price?
You are trying to land a treble if you bet now.
1. The horse will be fit to run in March.
2. They target the right race (I agree that it is very unlikely that Big Bucks will ever run in anything but the Stayers but you never know for sure) If he is the only viable Gold Cup horse in the yard they might be tempted. I happen to think he would beat the current lot on the bridle over fences but that is a personal opinion.
3. That he beats the opposition on the day.
So if the odds are 4/6, 1/10 and 1/3, you get combined odds of 1.45/1 or 6/4 after deductions. No great value is there?
1. The horse will be fit to run in March.
2. They target the right race (I agree that it is very unlikely that Big Bucks will ever run in anything but the Stayers but you never know for sure) If he is the only viable Gold Cup horse in the yard they might be tempted. I happen to think he would beat the current lot on the bridle over fences but that is a personal opinion.
3. That he beats the opposition on the day.
So if the odds are 4/6, 1/10 and 1/3, you get combined odds of 1.45/1 or 6/4 after deductions. No great value is there?
i wouldn't dismiis anything as vulgar Roger each to their own but Buckster is a better 6/4 shot than United for the league imo.
but Buckster is a better 6/4 shot than United for the league imo.
sageform
20 Nov 12 16:55
Joined:
15 Jun 01
| Topic/replies: 2,530 | Blogger: sageform's blog
You are trying to land a treble if you bet now.
1. The horse will be fit to run in March. (1/20)
2. They target the right race (1/1000) (I agree that it is very unlikely that Big Bucks will ever run in anything but the Stayers but you never know for sure) If he is the only viable Gold Cup horse in the yard they might be tempted. I happen to think he would beat the current lot on the bridle over fences but that is a personal opinion.
3. That he beats the opposition on the day. (1/5)
So if the odds are 4/6, 1/10 and 1/3, you get combined odds of 1.45/1 or 6/4 after deductions. No great value is there?
1/10 the world hurdle is the target make that 1/1000
20 Nov 12 16:55
Joined:
15 Jun 01
| Topic/replies: 2,530 | Blogger: sageform's blog
You are trying to land a treble if you bet now.
1. The horse will be fit to run in March. (1/20)
2. They target the right race (1/1000) (I agree that it is very unlikely that Big Bucks will ever run in anything but the Stayers but you never know for sure) If he is the only viable Gold Cup horse in the yard they might be tempted. I happen to think he would beat the current lot on the bridle over fences but that is a personal opinion.
3. That he beats the opposition on the day. (1/5)
So if the odds are 4/6, 1/10 and 1/3, you get combined odds of 1.45/1 or 6/4 after deductions. No great value is there?
1/10 the world hurdle is the target make that 1/1000
unless we learn that he hasn't got bollx and he runs in the mares
OK you can challenge my individual odds, but the true odds of him winning the race if he makes the start line are about 2/5 or 1/3 if you take 6/4 now. He was 10/11 on the day last year don't forget. The most common time for a horse to get leg problems is at the start of a new season so wait at least until he has run at Newbury.
yes and theres a huge difference between 10-11 and 6-4!!!!
Really?
well hes pretty reliable,i mean he turns up in march year after year,and whens he ever been injured??
4 months though mate!!
well hes pretty reliable,i mean he turns up in march year after year,and whens he ever been injured??
4 months though mate!!
agreed. As slippy blue says on the chit chat forum 'i love the buzz'
My point exactly!
I love the buzz (of ante-post betting). I just can't get horned up about 6/4, but fair fks to anyone who can and who has the wallet to make 4 months of tension worthwhile.
I love the buzz (of ante-post betting). I just can't get horned up about 6/4, but fair fks to anyone who can and who has the wallet to make 4 months of tension worthwhile.
as i said in my post roger its not my kind of bet as i dont get involved with short prices, i tend to try to 2nd guess what connections may have in mind and try to find big priced ante post selections who i think have a decent chance of contesting big races months before the event ! but some punters do like the shorter priced " sexy horses" and big bucks is a good example of that type of bet.
yeh to me antepost is all about trying to get nice prices about horses that will end up a lot shorter on the day,and trying to 2nd guess trainers,which is never easy,but fun.
you always win some and lose some,but i do it every year and always seems worth it come March.
Normally it involves horses at least in double figures,some treble on the odd occasion,but never as short as 6/4!!
Each to their own though of course.
you always win some and lose some,but i do it every year and always seems worth it come March.
Normally it involves horses at least in double figures,some treble on the odd occasion,but never as short as 6/4!!
Each to their own though of course.
The Thursday in particular has some bad races nowadays
as i say lads not my kind of bet but the opposition is looking thin on the ground voler la v hardly enhanced her claims the other day ,oscar whiskey a likely nonner wher is the competition ?
il bet you a drink of your choice on the day....its the same every year
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