Hat tip to Buddeliea

Also a big hat tip to Dom Alco - the kids are doing pretty well lately. Plus you have a much better job than me.

Well to be fair,hes had some what i consider to be pretty unfair stick on here,with people judging him on the Arkle,and Aintree.
Ive always had faith in this horse,and thought him a real Cheltenham type.
Nothing i have seen sways me from that,and today just enhances it.
Most of all though,is that hes recovered well from the end of the season,and now its a case of how far he can go.
Well pleased for the horse.

Can we get an epetiton started for Budd to change his name to Buddferof?

I still think it was understandable for people to be having doubts entering this season though, of which those doubts should be gone.  It's not like he was thrown in the handicap off near bottom weight, he did it the hard way carrying a lot on his back.

I think comments like slow and below top class were unjust, I just personally wanted to see how he would get on after a summer on his back.  If he hadn't had those two races at the end of the year he wouldn't have been 8/1 today, and he'd be rated higher than 159.

I think it's just natural for people to be sceptical after a "disappointing" performance at Cheltenham - like those who now doubt Hurricane Fly; obviously completely different to Al Ferof as one is an up and coming, and one is a former Champ, but his form is 1111/1131, and people doubt him because of the 3; until he beats rivals of a certain level there will always be doubters.

While AF was impressive today, given what he actually beat (i.e. what finished the race, and where) I conclude he ran somewhere near his handicap mark. So he still has to improve on the bare form imo to factor in big races. I think what today showed for me is that he has the class and temprament to do just that, especially as Nicholls thought he was underprepared. These Dom Alco's are a real handful, especially on soft ground, and often really tough!

(Sorry, should say to factor in Championship races - today was a "big" race!)

oh yeh mate,i had my doubts,but not in his ability,just in his reaction this season following the arkle.
I was never dissapponted with his Arkle performance,well obviously the error i was,but he was travelling well,and its not as if he ran like Grand Crus did today for example.

Looking at the previous winners of the PP Gold Cup, I think it puts Al Ferof's performance today in perspective.

2004 Celestial Gold 136
2005 Our Vic 149
2006 Exotic Dancer 139
2007 L’Antartique 146
2008 Imperial Commander 139
2009 Tranquil Sea 148
2010 Little John 146
2011 Great Endeavour 147
2012 Al Ferof 159

Some very good horses in that list, and Al Ferof was by far the highest rated going in to the race, so a very good handicap performance imo.

Al Ferof fans with smug grins this evening

Nice one Budd, I can remember the thread well, and we were both given a bit of stick for rating the horse so much.

2010 Little John 146

You know what I mean, although I am partial to a bit of Robin Hood: Prince of Thieves

makes u wonder what mark the aeroplane will end up with

Cue Card - Hosed up.
Menorah - Aintee winner
Al Ferof - Paddy Power winner.

and he won with his c0ck out

Can't Catch Me






17 Nov 12 18:08
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02 Apr 03
| Topic/replies: 13,386 | Blogger: Can't Catch Me's blog



Al Ferof fans with smug grins this evening

Nice one Budd, I can remember the thread well, and we were both given a bit of stick for rating the horse so much.

muscling in on the credit imo

Got to get credit where you can IMO Howdi.

true pal

one of my fav horses but thought weight would get him today

Howdi - one could see Sprinter putting up a mark around 180 in the Tingle Creek - whether he can do better this season will very much depend on what turns up against him in his other races and what he finds off the bridle (if anything ever gets him off the bridle).

theres a bet what price he stays on the bridle all season!!!!

what about a 'tag team' like the old days of wrestling to get this horse beaten. ....sanctuaire to run the first mile against sprinter before handing over the baton to sizing europe to take the second mile

4-9 Sprinter sacre

Not frankel and exclebration? I suppose they have to jump, so perhaps not.

frankel getting two many jumps at 125k a pot to care

Nice work.

lads he may turn out to be a great horse but we dont even know for sure he would have won the arkle if al ferof hadnt made that mistake ! put it this way anyone think that if sprinter sacre had made that mistake he would still have won .

I said "one could see Sprinter putting up a mark around 180 in the Tingle Creek"  (italics added). I didn't say he will. He might, he might not. He'll have that opportunity.

wasnt aimed at you stront   he may well be something special just that  a lot of people feel he only has to turn up to win the tingle ,champion chase and the boat race ,what i am saying is that if sanctuaire beats him there will be some sorely dissapointed people and hope the excuses are not rolled out .

Hopefully they won't be disappointed (though you might be right) - surely it's better to have two excellent horses who will race against each other a few times than to have one megastar. The legend of Arkle needs Mill House. I agree with you the race is not a foregone conclusion, and I feel if SS does win easily it will be an awesome performance.

if he can beat sanctuaire easily and both have jumped well then it will be an awesome performance and vice versa .

^
that's why we want cue card et al running back at 2 miles this year, and why the ryannir isn't really that great an invention.

yes.

(to Foyles at 21.30)

sprinter sacre will have to jump and travel at a pace he has never experienced all things being equal he may well be up to it and prove he is a star but nicholls has said his horses were not right last season ,if thts the case sanctuaire will be some tool to go to war with and the tingle creek will be some race !

This will upset some people, i cant have Sanctuaire at all. Just look at the horses he beat.

AL Ferof would beat him over any trip.

Totally agree IS. Becoming very over hyped.

Foyle I heard he said that, but while I think he may be right about some of them, you can't say Kauto wasn't back to his best or Big Bucks as good as ever, so I take it with a pinch of salt.

We'll know in 3 weeks - but imo no horse can jump like that round Sandown, against solid G2+ horses, without a touch of class.

Who are these solid g2 horses you speak about

Somersby, Wishful thinking, Cornas, French Opera

WF could be g2 if entered over his correct trip.

all g3 imo.

Maybe, though Somersby is arguably G1 on his day.

isnt he, i used him as my yardstick for al ferof (well the 2nd)

but you could agree that he has beat horses with other targets due to their ability.


this is getting all to complicated btw.

Yep I don't want to get in to too much detail about Sactuaire at Sandown. All I'm saying is he beat some good/decent horses that day with staggering ease and great style. The form may turn out not to be worth much - but on the other hand it might - we just don't know yet, for sure. We might know in 3 weeks.

yeah resner you are right about nicholls and other trainers i may be hearing what i want to hear !thing is his horses were not right about 6 weeks before cheltenham festival ,didnt they have that flu vaccine in mid january ? did that effect performances ?

Foyles, I think the main Nicholls yard had a virus/cough/other infection in late Jan/early feb? He does give his horses a flu jab in early Jan but the efeects of that only take 3-4 weeks to wear off.

*negative effects

what's he saying....he beat hendo whos horses were running out of their skins with a bunch of nags that were under performing.

FOYLESWAR
17 Nov 12 20:56
lads he may turn out to be a great horse but we dont even know for sure he would have won the arkle if al ferof hadnt made that mistake ! put it this way anyone think that if sprinter sacre had made that mistake he would still have won .

Very true,the result of that race was still in the balance at the time of the mistake,and all was still to play.
Think that day we would have seen SS off the bridle,and if that had been the case,we would have learned a lot more,and had a much better race.Alf may have won for all we know.
Still that can only ever be opinion though,and ive no doubt a lot will disagree.

Very pleased Al Ferof won was a serious performance and well done Budd. Sorry to after time but couldn't resist him at 16s after the form of that group of horses they are a class bunch. He has run to a much higher mark than 159. You don't win races like that by running to your mark. It was a gruelling race and many couldn't cope but that's no reason to play down the form he absolutely cruised through it. The step up in trip has clearly (as expected) given Al Ferof that little bit of extra time to get into his rhythm. It was his best performance of his career by some way over fences. As for what would have happened if Sprinter hit the fence like Al Ferof did in the Arkle is a bit of a silly one. If's but's and maybe's have no place in racing the fact is Sprinter Sacre has never touched a twig in his chasing career. Al Ferof is a brilliant horse but not over 2 miles. He's good over 2 don't get me wrong but its going at that pace which never saw him meeting his fences all that brilliantly. He may have finished 2nd or probably 3rd that day if he didn't hit the fence but I wouldn't even consider him a threat to Sprinter over 2 miles off level weights. I hope a lot off people will be putting their money where their mouths are in the Tingle Creek. Sprinter could be my bet of the season in that.

Fair enough mate,your opinion will be shared by more than mine will!!

Ruby though,to be fair,has said the error was him trying to put SS under pressure.
Personally, in hindsight, i think he will admit he should not have done that,and just let the horse run as he was up to then.Thats been his only error in all his chases so far,and to be fair he would have jumped that one ok,had his jock not asked him too early.Did you see how he jumped that fence yesterday?
You are right of course,as to what might have happened,ifs buts and maybes etc,but its fun summising.
Me,i think he would have been 1st or 2nd given the way he was travelling and the way he sees his races out.
All his form up to the Arkle was over 2m inc a good 3rd just behind the QM winner.So was entitled to be 2nd fav for the race.
Its always a shame when things like that happen in horseracing,cos we are left with what might have been,and unanswered questions.

Imo 2m was the right distance as a novice,but now its over further.

Fair enough Bud I know how much belief you have in the horse. I think Ruby had to kick on though and turn the race into a stamina test over 2 by trying to put some sort of pressure on Sprinter. It didn't work out and Sprinter ran away with it. He's far from a slow horse and I just hope despite him going for the King George he doesn't go for the Gold Cup this season. He has a huge amount of potential and I don't feel it will do him a lot of good running over 3m 2

Yeh,i have nice prices for the GC,but like you i aint convinced its the right race this season,think the Ryanair(no bet)is at this stage.
However,if he has shown enough during the season to convince connections he will stay 3m2 round Chelt,then thats where he will end up imo.

I would probably say Ryanair would be the best race but if he wins the King George they will be more than tempted to run in the Gold Cup so you might have a nice ticket. I just feel he could maybe be better off not having too many hard races this season and having a proper go next season with another year on his back.

A la Imperial Commander.

did you back him yesterday Budde?

yeh,minimum bet though,werent sure how he would fare after his Arkle calamity!!
should have had more confidence mate.

well done Budde.

Yep, well done budd. One of a crop of very high quality novice chasers from last year who have already made their mark this season. Let's hope they all stay fit and well and we see some exciting contests in the top races.