pricewise gold cup selection this thursday?

forgive his rsa run .......he didnt run in it ,and think ya mean paddy power !

He will not put a 3/1 shot up.

deary me pebbles what was going through your mind seems youve made 2 errors here

He may put up Quantitaiveeasing. Outstanding C&D form at a big price.

notus de la tour off a mark of 14 is a tempting  25s at sids

make that 144 ffs^^^^^

Tartak and Divers are coming back to winnable marks.

Divers could well be out of the handicap

I'm with you Foyle Notus De La Tour tempting me too.

I'm with you Foyle Notus De La Tour tempting me too.

I'm with you Foyle Notus De La Tour tempting me too.

looks like michael flips is pricewise tip only one blue on oddschecker

forgot to mention in original post i am a pish head hence the two errors..one i held my hands up too (Paddy power) the other being i meant grand crus..so this thread was my way of saying IF pricewise had put up a selection for gold cup 2013 tomorrow it would have been grand crus imo...taxi!!!

^^^ huge credit to pebbles for been man enough to admit the booze had him, like it's had us all at some point

not you Howdi?

I think Grand Crus will be an ezcellent horse but like so many before him, the GC distance may be just out of reach. I fancy him for the PP and the KG.

I fancy him for the PP - even the KG may be too far - but he's not going to be Pricewise at 3/1.

1pt e/w micheal flips 25/1.

dont think KG will be beyond him based on feltham and world hurdle efforts.

That is an endless on here discussion Howdi. I don't think he really saw out either of those races (nor does Ruby Walsh fwiw), but only time will tell if he does get 3 m properly. Tom deane is adamant he does for example and I greatly respect his opinion.

and mine I hope Strontium

Enjoy the racing ahead mate - going to be great.

Said last season he should have been in the Jewson,and i felt justified with those comments after the RSA.
Did not get home,and in a top race over 3m,imo he wont get home again.

This season i say he should end up in the Ryanair,if indeed he proves good enough to run at Cheltenham in a grade 1.
Of which i have my doubts.

If Grands Crus doesn't get home over 3 miles at Kempton then neither does Kauto or Long Run because despite being eased close home, tanking to the front a long way out and coming off a quicker pace he was still only marginally slower than those two from the first on the far side on the last circuit to the line.

Cheltenham is a different matter.

I mad ethis point earlier this year pal...and I was told Grand Crus was a quick time hbecause he had a jump start

Im not saying he wont get home,im saying he wont get home in a top 3m race,and by that i mean well enough against the best around.
I firmly believe at the top level 3m will take him out of his comfort zone,and IF he is to reach the top level,he needs to be running in 2 and a half mile races.

Actually Hodwi the King George had a slow start, not the Feltham a quick start. On hand timings Grands Crus and Kauto Star ran their second circuits in very similar times (though KS ran much wider and carried more weight).

Eternal - Kauto and Long Run were pulling away at the end. Grands Crus was being rapidly closed down by Silvianco Conti. We may get a better idea how good he is on Saturday.

I do love debate S

I thought mischief making was more up your street H........

strontium

To a point that is true but with two caveats. He had been in front an awfully long time for a hold up horse and the closing in after the last by the others was exaggerated by Scudamore dropping his hands knowing the horse had won and the horse slowing rapidly close home as a consequence. Which can be contrasted with Kauto and Long Run racing hard through the line within relatively close proximity. Of course that could be construed either as Grands Crus running on empty or just that he had been in front too long and that nothing was good enough to carry him far enough into the race and the horse had done enough.

It will certainly be one of the interesting subplots to what could be a classic renewal.

Backed Flips at about 57s on here last week not sure if good enough but was too big so free bet to trade some out. Also on For Non Stop at approx 23s have layed back at 10s, as think last week was his Gold Cup as impressive as he was.

Al Ferof would be one to have 2nd look if lining up, as always looked like stayer from novice hurdle days?

Eternal, that's entirely fair enough about Grands Crus and I don't disagree.

The Feltham was a strange race because they went off at suicide pace so it's not easy to judge. AP said if they'd run it 100 times it could not have fallen better for Grands Crus. It was interesting that Bobs Worth was closing quickly on GC at the end, having been completely outpaced for most of the race, which suggests GC could have been tiring - but as you say he clearly had the race won anyway. I'm not sure - time will tell. I have other reasons for thinking GC may not be all that great, including his RSA run and his race at Newbury where he struggled to beat Sonofvic who hit every other fence.

The Charlie Hall should provide some clues with Silvianaco Conti against some decent yardsticks in Time for Rupert and Midnight Chase. We have a great idea where those two stand from the Gold Cup etc.

This is one of the reasons I love the jumps and don't bother with the flat. It's like putting a favourite jigsaw together every year. Another way of looking at it which could shed negative light on Grands Crus is that neither Silvianaco nor BW seemed to be suited by the course or possibly the race conditions themselves at Kempton. BW never had the pace to go with them at any stage. His win in the RSA was no surprise and further evidence of the idea that a horse ideally suited to Cheltenham will usually struggle for pace at Kempton and vice versa. Silvianaco hit a few and jumped out to his left losing ground at a few. Pipe's comments in the stable tour about Grands Crus make interesting reading in that it suggests he struggled to get him truly right last season. Having said all that I have rarely seen a top event novice or open put to bed with the speed and ease with which Grands Crus did that race before the home turn.

I'll stick my neck out and say that I think given their respective conditions I think each of these three could run very big races in open company beginning with Silvianaco tomorrow and later in the Martell at Aintree (he'd miss the gold cup this season if he were mine.) For me BW has a big shout in the Hennessy despite his weight and could put up a very good showing in this seasons Gold Cup and as is probably obvious I have backed Grands Crus for Kempton.

Now I'll sit back, watch events unfold and watch none of em win a race all season.

I agree with most of that and think it's an interesting and astute post.

The one thing I would note is that the King George is by far the best trial for the Cheltenham Gold Cup - but it may be that class just rises to the top at the very highest level and the very best horses can handle the speed test of Kempton and the stamina + tactical speed test of Cheltenham.

Its interesting but if you look at the respective history of the two races (certainly in the time I've been following the game) I'd say the opposite is true. I've lost count of the number of King George winners who couldn't get up that last hill inthe gold cup having looked like the winner rounding the home turn. It used to happen year after year to horses like Wayward Lad and One Man. ironically I've seen others hardly picking their feet up at Kempton but running on strongly at Cheltenham. When you consider that they are the two top races for the long distance chasers there is a remarkable disconnect between the horses who have won one and not been able to win the other despite holding apparently very strong cases.

What I will concede is that the drainage work has made it far more feasible and the fact that we have recently gone through a golden age with several horses able to break or run to marks near 180 giving them a little more leeway when it comes to adapting. Even then I'd argue that certainly Best Mate and arguably Kauto wouldn't have had the stamina to win an old fashioned 80's gold cup slog.

I can't wait for today. For me the fun starts. Good luck with your season.

Cheers, and you.

That was a nice performance in what I believe are ideal conditions of a flattish left handed track on decent ground. Now all we have to work out is how much of that was already there last season, how much he has improved and how much we take off if going left handed is indeed best for him and we can then arrive at a definitve view on Grands Crus assuming good if not better health than early last season.

Told you this game was easy.

I was pretty impressed with that - Midnight Chase and Time for Rupert were 5th & 6th (?) in the Gold Cup - I doubt either was wound up today, but he beat them very easily. Maybe Wayward Prince holds down the form?

In any case, I take today as a boost for (my view of) the Feltham form. SC is clealry a big player at tracks like Aintree, Wetherby & Kempton (where form correlates quite well).