Fingal Bay

You can taste it on the air!

IN THE AIR

Couple more that could be interesting in that race are Super Duty and Module.

A few grand old names like Fair Along, Arbor Supreme and Hold On Julio with entries on the card as well.

I really hope I'm wrong but I've just got a feeling Fingal will struggle over fences and not reach the heights he did over hurdles

Interesting BBF. He is built for it certainly. If campaigned well, I think he can do well

any reasoning as to why u think that BBF?
i think he'll be a much better horse over fences myself.

They are not wasting anytime getting him over fences. Could be a Gold Cup horse if all goes well.

2m3 tomorow a slight suprise
poungach is no mug and fingal will improve for further,interesting

The new novice chases rules this season have certainly made things more interesting

What are the new rules blue?

Can't run in a handicap chase until either won a novice chase or started 3. I might be wrong.

I'm sure Fingal Bay started off at Chepstow last season. Has anyone got any stats on how many recent Cheltenham winners started their seasons in early October. It kinda seems too early to start off if you have genuine Cheltenham ambitions.

Very good point rnl. His early season form was exceptional and he cuffed Simonsig fair and sqare at Sandown. Post Xmas, he put up a very iffy performance to win at Newbury before he went wrong.

Yeah, he started off at Chepstow last season in the Grade 2 novice hurdle at the 2nd October meeting (so the
equivalent will be run in 2 weeks time). He looked awesome that day. I thought he got progressively less impressive with each race last season, though I know many disagree.

I'm not sure how many Festival winners start early but Countrywide Flame was running through summer 2011 (and then through the winter without a significant break) before winning the Triumph. I'd guess when it does happen it's more common with novices (but I may be prejudiced by my view that racing experience, some recent, is really important for many novices).

Resner - cue card won the race last year and was only beaten by sprinter sacre in the ankle so the race is a decent one for a Cheltenham hopeful

Am a big Fingal Bay fan but I have a sneaky feeling 2m3f might be a bit short for him and he get could get beat today by Poungach.............still fancy him a lot for RSA but wont be putting any of my heard earned on him first time out over 2m3f.

Simon, Cue Cards 2nd to SS is good form definitely and I do think he may prove even better over further this year, however it was a 2nd none the less albeit to a potential superstar. While perhaps having a race as early as October had nothing to do with that defeat directly, I have to say that there probably won't be many horses out this month that win the big races at Cheltenham.

Its a concern for me with Fingal Bay as I am interested in him with Cheltenham in mind as I think he could be that good, but its a long time to be on the go for some horses

early starts a positive imo.When he won the challow he ploughed through the mud but wasnt impressive at all,his cruising speeds his most effective weapon.
Start early on perfect jumping ground ,run 3times then put him away in the winter gluepot and bring him back for trials day then festivals at chelt and punchestown...easy

its possible that the triumph hurdle winner also runs today,time will tell.

he does indeed tweedle....at Newmarket

I dont think the trip is an issue, his PB was over 2m4f. Should be ideal today.

Pretty good performace,jumped well.

After a couple of sketchy jumps he seemed to settle and jumped well enough thereafter. Didn't give the impression that he'll be a showy jumper or gain yards in the air like some, but its early days. The overall result is nothing to write home about especially as the 2nd was giving weight, but hopefully he'll improve a fair bit for the run and experience.

Jumped better as the race went on but it was a schooling session really - they only raced the last half mile. Pity about Poungach but these things happen. Fingal Bay could win a decent race at 2 and a half as long as there is a strong pace but I think he is a stayer and if he had made Cheltenham last year, he would have lined up in the wrong race.

It was OK, no more, no less. He jumped quite nicely after the first 4 or 5, though not brilliantly. He won against a race fit, more experienced horse.

On the bare form it was a 125-ish performace. I'd expect him to come on 10+ lbs simply for the run and experience. It's a big open question as to whether he can find the further 20-30 lbs he'd need to figure in the RSA or Jewson.

I have the impression the horse may not enjoy it very much, though he might just be lazy (or both).

strontium
12 Oct 12 22:31
Joined:
21 Sep 05
| Topic/replies: 2,810 | Blogger: strontium's blog
Yeah, he started off at Chepstow last season in the Grade 2 novice hurdle at the 2nd October meeting (so the
equivalent will be run in 2 weeks time). He looked awesome that day. I thought he got progressively less impressive with each race last season, though I know many disagree.

I'm not sure how many Festival winners start early but Countrywide Flame was running through summer 2011 (and then through the winter without a significant break) before winning the Triumph. I'd guess when it does happen it's more common with novices (but I may be prejudiced by my view that racing experience, some recent, is really important for many novices).

With that in mind Stront I would hazard a guess PJH may train him slightly differently this season? You would certainly hope so given his no more than adequate start today. Im hoping he'll improve a ton for it, though im not involved financially in anyway. I was just hoping to see a bit more so im thinking there is a possibility he could be trained a little different this season. His hurdles debut last season knocked spots off his chase debut. He jumped nicely though.

Don't know Sint but I worry about Hobbs as a trainer of top horses. It's certainly possible Fingal was totally undercooked today - he looked tired at the finish over a trip he ought to take easily in stride. Maybe he is being trained to pek much later this year? You are spot on about his hurdles debut, which was electric, v his chase debut today.

*peak

It's the only reason I can come up with Stront. He should have smashed the 2nd horse in receipt of weight. You would hope his next run is much improved in terms of performance. We're still in October so he could and should improve a lot for it.

Thought it was a nice debut tbh - doesnt strike me as a horse thats going to smash anythin out of sight, always seems to just do enough! Was loads more in the tank imvho

Was anything said about when/where his next race will be?

Future Stars @ Wincanton or 2.5 Novices chase at PP meeting next

Thanks - either of those should give a much better idea where he stands.

Was happy with him today. Sketchy over the 1st 3, jumped really well could of done with a lead just idled in front. Wouldnt be quick enough for the Jewson for me, think RSA is his race. Find out more next time

He skied a couple early on but better that than ending up on the deck. You could see he was learning as the race went on. I have a feeling he will beat a good horse by just as far as a bad one and ideally he wants a lead into a race. He did what was required today and I can only see him getting better. The trip wasn't ideal he had to lead the whole way and was never likely to be very fit. I'm certainly viewing it as a positive start to his career over fences.

Thats exactly as I see it MM. Thought he looked a pretty natural jumper 9even with Johnson on board) and that was going to be the most important thing today I suppose.

I thought that his jumping improved as the race went on but do feel he will need some cut in the ground which puts me off him as an antepost proposition.Defo needs a trip so the RSA is surely the only long term target.

I think he'll mop up some small runner fields in the build up to Cheltenham, but have got a feeling he'll run into one or two too good in the RSA.  Can't ask for anything more than a win on debut though. 

Personally, I'm not a lover of when a horse just does enough to win, because there's always the risk of getting mugged on the line, and would like him to stride on with a bit of authority (unless you're Big Bucks of course)

I'm with you there WellC - it's a dangerous characteristic unless we're talking about a great horse (Big Buck's, Sea the Stars, etc).

Those that point out today's race wasn't run to suit make a good point. it will be interesting to see how he gets on when he gets a tow, especially in a race run at reasonable pace.

Well he proved he can jump ok,which is the main thing in his 1st race over fences.
Whether he is actually good enough to challenge in the top novice chases i aint sure,next couple of races will tell us.
I would not be backing him,but those that are should be fairly pleased with that i would think.

Looked a promising run for a relatively unfit horse. Jumped well enough after settling down. More to come.

Could not in a million yrs back this horse at Wincanton - he needs a big, galloping track IMO, with wide open spaces. I thought yesterday was satisfactory. Hobbs rarely has his runners undercooked FTO but for a debut over an inadequate trip I thought it was good enough and he should continue to improve quite a bit IMO. Long tern -pure speculation- I think he will lack a change of gear, he looks a grinder, a lazy one too, and something with more class might end up chinning him, but this was a satisfactory start.

Fwiw, on an unrelated point, the year Katchit won his Triumph, his Triumph run was his 16 in 12 months, and his 7th over hurdles (I think Countrywide had 14 races altogether in the same period). Katchit started off over hurdles at the Sept Market Rasen meeting.

think thats a harsh assessment tbh..didnt look lazy when slamming simonsig and barbatos...grinder...well if he is then id say hes got more class than one knight [won rsa for hobbsy]

Bloody good horse imo

I agree with him being clasier than One Knight (I loved him - but was the worst jumper in yrs!). I think he did outstay, on soft ground, up the hill, over 2 and half, Simonsig and I think that form is rock solid but stop the race 2 out and Simonsig (pulling double) would have been long odds on. I did not mean to be disparaging, I really love the horse, but i think he may just lack a gear in top, top company when the ground is decent. I also think he does next to nothing in front (which is probably what i meant when I described him as being lazy).

Yeah over 2 and a half he will get outpaced, the way Hobbs is talking I still think the Aintree race is in the back of his mind, when saying "He'll get 3 in time" He needs 3 miles this year at the Festival. He defo idles in front, will be better with a proper pace and a lead

Trained by Philip Hobbs, the six-year-old met defeat only once over hurdles, in a Grade One event at Aintree, and was always expected to be a better chaser.

The race lost much of its lustre when Poungach, trained by Paul Nicholls and ridden by Ruby Walsh, fell at the first fence.

That left Fingal Bay out on his own in front and while he jumped well, if a little big, he appeared to be idling after the last, which enabled Tiger O'Toole to throw down a challenge.

    Profiles

    P J Hobbs
    Fingal Bay (IRE)
    R Johnson

Once Richard Johnson got stuck into him, Fingal Bay (8-13 favourite) responded to win by a length and a half.

Johnson told At The Races: "He jumped really well - he's a very good horse. "Obviously the job was made a lot easier with Paul Nicholls' horse crumpling at the first - he was a bit unlucky.

"He's had a nice time, he's enjoyed himself, and hasn't had a hard time.

"I'm sure there'll be harder tests in the future but it's the perfect start.

"I always knew he'd respond when I needed him to and the runner-up is a fair horse.

"It probably suited him with us not going very quick."

Hobbs said: "He was foot-perfect, which was great. There was a little bit of a scare after the last but he was good.

"They didn't go quick enough - a faster pace will help - and I'm pleased he jumped well. He's always looked as though he'll be a better chaser but time will tell.

"He definitely won't go less than two and a half miles and he might go up to three.

"I'd imagine he'll go for the Future Stars Novices' Chase at Wincanton or to the Paddy Power meeting for the two-mile-five-race there."

He jumped very high over some of his first few fences but then got more effective over them as the race went on. It was a shame Poungach didn't give him a race but it was certainly a promising start. Still can't see him winning the RSA though

I was totally against Fingal yesterday because i thought the trip was on the short side and Hobb's horses usually come on a bundle for there first outing of the year. Also i heard Hobb's giving a interview after Menorah first run over fences last year and he said that he does'nt tend to over  school them(granted certain horses may be different) at home before there first run as he likes his horses to progress with there fitness and learn how to jump properly as the season progress's. Once they are jumping adequately after a few schools over the larger obstacles at home Phillip tends to send them to the track. With this in mind i could,nt have been more impressed by Fingal Bay yesterday and after predictably being awkward and a wee bit wayward over the first few fences i thought he got into a lovely rhythm and comfortably held off a race fit talented individual in the shape of Tiger O'Toole. Granted Fingal Bay was receiving weight and also the Nicholls horse departing early was a big help but the manner of Fingals victory(to my eye anyway)was hugely impressive and i expect him to take very high rank in the novice staying division and maybe dipping his toe in against the big boys at some stage of the season. Gold

I was totally against Fingal yesterday because i thought the trip was on the short side and Hobb's horses usually come on a bundle for there first outing of the year. Also i heard Hobb's giving a interview after Menorah first run over fences last year and he said that he does'nt tend to over  school them(granted certain horses may be different) at home before there first run as he likes his horses to progress with there fitness and learn how to jump properly as the season progress's. Once they are jumping adequately after a few schools over the larger obstacles at home Phillip tends to send them to the track. With this in mind i could,nt have been more impressed by Fingal Bay yesterday and after predictably being awkward and a wee bit wayward over the first few fences i thought he got into a lovely rhythm and comfortably held off a race fit talented individual in the shape of Tiger O'Toole. Granted Fingal Bay was receiving weight and also the Nicholls horse departing early was a big help but the manner of Fingals victory(to my eye anyway)was hugely impressive and i expect him to take very high rank in the novice staying division and maybe dipping his toe in against the big boys at some stage of the season. Gold

Gold Cup talk might be a bit premature but i would'nt be shocked if he were to keep going the right way to see him lining up.

gold cup....no chance whatsoever of even being given an entry.
sdc,bobs worth,long run,fl,last instalment,flemenstar etc..
while he may give them a race next year that would be madness to contemplate it

agree with everything else you posted,i thought it was a very decent performance

Gold Cup talk ffs.

Think that effort suggests he's good but no superstar

Fine effort over a trip too short. When a horse jumps the first three that well please don t keep disapointing him and drop him back inlet him get on with it

Giving Dynaste weight might prove a decent performance but I though the winner had plenty in hand. Don't very often see young Scu motionless turning in but he knew he had the race won. Fingal Bay reached his peak beating Simonsig at Sandown last year. He nearly dogged it on the run in in the Challow and looked to be doing the same against Tiger O'Toole at Chepstow.

Dont think he dogged it at all. Just one paced at the trip, people went overboard saying he didnt stay 3 after the Lovcen defeat but think we will see the best of him over that trip. I'll wait till the Feltham before writing him off

needs cut too

Big fan of Fingal Bay and won plenty on him last season, im starting to think he hasnt progressed since beating Simonsig.

His challow performance was well below par (virtually heavy ground) but the aintree race can be forgiven as he was returning after a small injury.

Still reckon he is a top horse but i will wait and see how he performs when he gets his soft ground as todays going was way too quick for him.

soft ground and a lead from some decent runners

convinced sitting prominently is no good

I think when he looked best visually was round Cheltenham on good ground beating Barbatos. Ground was reported as tacky today by a few trainers

After the 1st three today Johnson should of let him go on instead he kept disapointing the horse and was a sitting target for Dynaste

Agree sj, Barbatos was a decent yardstick (rip)

Today wasnt all about winning, a 5 runners novice race means very little at the end of the day. The good thing is FB jumped very well even with his pilot.

The first two look really nice prospects. Don't think Fingal By did anything wrong at all, and once we could see that Dynaste was a good jumper, he was always likely to win getting 5 lb over that trip.

I suspect connections of the pair would be very happy. Personally think Dynaste is probably best over this sort of trip, too, whereas Fingal will likely want further. As someone who just watched the race without a financial interest, I thought it was great to see such good horses all jump so well as novices.

I just wonder whether the Lovcen defeat has played on their mind a bit too much. End of the day the two came well clear and now and then you get beat.
Since then they dont want to hit the fron,t and seem to wonder whether they stay 3 miles. I think they should let him bowl along at a decent clip in the Feltham if they means being in front then so be it don t keep disapointing the horse

I agree ^. Also think he might not have quite got home at Aintree because he was coming back from a break and a little injury, and you might hope he would stay a bit better with another few months on his back anyway. I think he'll definitely stay three miles very well.

I was also impressed by Unioniste - he jumped beautifully and being only 4 may improve quite a lot (though probably not to top class). It seemed a high class race today, in terms of the jumping at least. As for Fingal Bay, my regualr readers will know I'm not surprised he got beat....

Both the front two ran very good races, the winner jumped well on debut and produced a turn of foot at the end,the 2nd jumped well and considering he gave weight to the winner and the pace was too slow for him i wouldn't be worried at all at getting beat today, i'd be firmly in the fingal bay camp if it came to the rsa, wouldn't be surprised if dynaste proves to be quite similar to grands crus in more ways than one, fingal looks the real stayer out of the two to me.

For all that Fingal Bay's battling qualities appeared fantastic when beating Simonsig - Simonsig was not right that day. Had he been i have no doubt he would have ended up the winner.

Having said that i really like Fingal and have in him many of my TTF entries. I think it's possible that he himself might have had something minor wrong today - didn't seem to run up the hill at all as would have been expected

I think FB ran a perfectly respectable race. Jumped much better than he had at Chepstow and was just outpaced by a classier horse. Dynaste is in many lists of horses to follow and yesterday, he showed why. Jumped well and was given a very confident rise by Tom Scudamore, who never picked up the stick once.

Johnson said: "Obviously something is not right. He was jumping to his left at almost every fence and I probably should have pulled him up."

whats going on with Mr Hobbs?

Thats Menorah,Wishful Thinking,Captain Chris and now Fingal Bay.
His best horses all had problems in their own way.

Giving Dynaste weight might prove a decent performance but I though the winner had plenty in hand. Don't very often see young Scu motionless turning in but he knew he had the race won. Fingal Bay reached his peak beating Simonsig at Sandown last year. He nearly dogged it on the run in in the Challow and looked to be doing the same against Tiger O'Toole at Chepstow.

This. He is increasingly quirky and has regressed big time.

Get him back over hurdles

Out for the Season

The six year old hadn't finished out of the first two in eight career starts before his disastous run at Exeter where he jumped left throughout before running out just before a fence in the home straight.

Philip Hobbs' charge had chased home Dynaste on his previous start at Cheltenham but he won't be seen again this campaign.


"He sustained a minor tendon injury but that wasn't the reason he was jumping so much to the left," Hobbs told At The Races.

"Unfortunately he's out for the season. Next season he'll have to run in conditions races with little experience which isn't ideal."