the Fly post mortem

as i said on another thread the 2nd 3rd and 4th last year ar all better over further i.e he beat stayers ,up against some speedier types today .

1)last years novices were quicker than champion hurdle
2)wins on heavy ground in jan in ireland mean nothing
3)ruby was topspeed horse in race - fastest horse won
4)neptune best novice race of the 2 ,it ran brillant last year in this.

got beat of better horse no post mortem needed

So Overturn has improved 20 lengths in a race run around 3 seconds faster than last year?

Any quotes from Ruby? (Walsh that is, not Rock On. I doubt he can talk anyway)

£1000 Treble
Hurricane Fly 9/4
Quevega 6/4
Sizing Europe 11/4

£1000 Treble
Hurricane Fly 2/1
Sizing Europe 3/1
Long Run 11/4

why did the fly choose not to fire today very very poor effort,was struggling from a long way out,maybe would have failed to win even had he fired

I can't have that as his peak form. As you say the persuader was drawn a long way from home, this doesn't happen.

Probably isn't a determining factor, but as an 8yo by Montjeu, it is possible that his best days are behind him, he isn't bred to last this long really. The irish Champion was impressive, but as was said, a totally different test to that today. He was just taken out of his comfort zone it seemed.

last years race wasnt ran as strongly run so he was allowed to stroll into the race. This year they went so quick he had to work hard to make the ground, then when it came to going past he was spent. If ruby had kept him up with the pace in a simular position to oscars well he'd of won. ah well lesson learned.

sweated up badly today apparently

sweated up badly today apparently

horse got very warm pre race and was obviously fretting...don't think he was good enough on the day...am an avid believer in the bounce factor myself and you could say he bounced...he certainly wasn't the same horse that won on bottomless ground at leopardstown

and the horse he beat that day was well beat too

The stronger pace should have suited him A tip top Fly would have gathered in Overturn ffs?

I have done a chunk yes, and if the Fly not 100% it wouldn't really make me feel any better but I am surprised people are not asking questions.

I remember when Lochsong boiled over before the Nunthorpe - happens sometimes

just given you one reason why pal...he got extremely warm which is not ideal for any race horse and even though he is a montjeu he hasn't been like that before

Yes I heard it mentioned he was sweating . Oh well, they are not machines. Or does won run on Thurs....

He's a Montjeu,When their good there good...when their bad there bad.
Not a chance that was his true ability today,
Rock on ruby strikes me as another Katchit/punjabi,
Not a sexy hurdler,just a tough Grade 1 animal,Lacks that bit of class imo

often had street fighter types win this race though like Hardy Eustace, Brave Inca and the like... not all Champion Hurdlers are classy flashy types - just how it goes

True,might be just what i like to see in a Champion Hurdler
Having said ROR is not a classy type,it's hard not to like him,
Haven't seen him in the flesh,be interesting if anyone has and have any thought on him as a Chaser?

Say what yer like about HF,Bino etc,but that was a great performance from the winner,always up there and quickened away and won going away.Pretty much faultless,and when you get a horse that combines stamina and speed you have one real good Churdler.
Can see him winning again.
Runner up was bl00dy impressive as well.
And fantastic rides from both jockeys,deserve much credit.

To my untrained eyes it seemed that Fly and Bino got tactically outwitted by the front pair.

Thats fair comment i think,but i dont think the winner would have got beat had they not.

The evidence is there that the front 2 stayed there to the end including Overturn a horse outclassed on slower ground before by those in behind yesterday. The time was fairly quick suggesting the ground was pretty good, which made it easier for the leaders to bowl along without having to be pushed along at the head. Effectively an easy lead due to the conditions which on slower ground they would have had to have more use made of them to maintain the same tempo and position. You dont want to be giving a healthy gap to a lead such as this which unfortunately Walsh decided to do (maybe his tactical failure on Al Ferof had affected his confidence when he made good use of him and failed, so decided to ride a waiting race here). McCoy followed Walsh so he was suckered as well. A couple of poor rides, Hurricane made a lot of ground up the hill but off such a lead was not going to get to them unless he sproughted wings which he didnt.

Poor ride from Walsh misjudged the race imo legends can be made and broken by them..A horse who looked like Istabraq previously was made to look ordinary.

agreed ^ Next year the fly will be ridden much closer and win. At least there will be a price next year :)

ROR (and Overturn for that matter) used more energy at the start, and had more left at the finish. People are deluding themselves if they think tactics beat Hurricane Fly.

In my opinion that was Hurricane Fly's peak form IN THE CONDITIONS.

In different conditions, he is capable of a lot more.

I agree with Cuder....one would assume Fehily and Maguire got the tactics wrong at the midway stage of the race, and that Walsh and McCoy had theirs spot on. Hurricane Fly and Binocular backers blaming the jockeys for their defeats clearly don't understand the basics of pace.

Basically you are advocating not backing short prices on the opening day due to Claisse's made up going descriptions. There is a lot to be said for that.

Whatever excuses you want to make he was hugely disappointing - if he really was a superstar in the first place. I am the last person to defend jockeys - particularly ones like Walsh who can appear overly cocky - but I think he was close enough if good enough. When asked what there was in terms of a response was very tame. Perhaps he has seen better days, perhaps the race he won last year and consistently beating up second-raters in Ireland wasn't as good as it first seemed. Even if he returns successfully it is going to be very hard to wipe out the memory of yesterday's failure.

People also forget that HF was a sick horse all Winter and Mullins refused to run him because "he wasn't showing his old sparkle". Suddenly this was overlooked following his Leopardstown win. I have never got the feeling that HF was as good as he was at any stage this year as last year.

My own take on it is that HF was flattered last year. He beat stayers for pace. Which is an opinion I posted up pre-race btw This year was made a test, which of course can blunt the finishers. Perfectly judged rides from the first two, gave themselves to best opportunity, they took advantage.

Tactics certainly beat Binocular.  They had a simple gameplan - stalk Hurricane Fly and try and win a sprint finish.  Shame they forgot about the front two.  That said, you can't really take much away from ROR - a deserved win