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ZEALOT
09 Mar 12 22:14
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Date Joined: 15 Sep 09
| Topic/replies: 22,888 | Blogger: ZEALOT's blog
Aintree Result
09 Apr 2011
« 2:50 » JOHN SMITH'S AINTREE HURDLE GRADE 1
(Class 1) (4yo+) 2m4f Good 11 hdles
£90,432.00, £34,096.00, £17,040.00, £8,512.00, £4,272.00, £2,128.00, £1,072.00

WATCH RACE - 20p
RESULTRATE RACE
Hide all comments in runningShow all pedigrees
              HORSE/SP    AGE    WGT    TRAINER/JOCKEY    OR    TS    RPR    RATED    

«    1          Oscar Whisky (IRE) 6/1    6    11-7     Nicky Henderson    165    141    165        »
Barry Geraghty
   
Chased leader, led 7th, stayed on strongly from 3 out, 3 lengths ahead last, just held on


«    2    nk      Thousand Stars (FR) 16/1    7    11-7     W P Mullins    163    141    165        »
Ms K Walsh
   
Took keen hold towards rear, headway approaching 3 out, went 2nd last, stayed on well, just held near finish (op 14-1)


«    3    10      Salden Licht 25/1    7    11-7     Alan King    156    131    157       
Robert Thornton
   
Chased leaders, hit 1st, went 2nd approaching 3 out, kept on same pace approaching last


«    4    2½      Binocular (FR) 7/4    7    11-7     Nicky Henderson    171    129    156        »
A P McCoy
   
Held up in touch, effort approaching 2 out, kept on same pace approaching last (op 15-8 tchd 2-1 in places)


«    5    hd      Oscar Dan Dan (IRE) 40/1    9    11-7     Thomas Mullins    151    129    155        »
P Carberry
   
Held up in last, mistake 5th, headway approaching 3 out, soon well outpaced, stayed on approaching last, kept on well towards finish (tchd 33-1)


«    6    2¾      Ronaldo Des Mottes (FR) 50/1    6    11-7     David Pipe    149    126    152       
Timmy Murphy
   
Held up, steady headway 8th, chasing leaders next, weakened and jumped left last


«    7    7      Peddlers Cross (IRE) 11/8F    6    11-7     Donald McCain    170    119    148        »
Jason Maguire
   
Tracked leaders, effort approaching 3 out, 5th when hit last, soon weakened (op 13-8 tchd 7-4)


«    8    3      Celestial Halo (IRE) 8/1    7    11-7 tb    Paul Nicholls    162    116    144        »
R Walsh
   
Led to 7th, not fluent next, soon ridden, lost place 3 out, soon behind (op 9-1 tchd 15-2)


8 ran TIME 4m 45.30s (slow by 2.30s) Total SP 118%
1st OWNER: Walters Plant Hire Ltd BRED: Stephanie Hanly TRAINER: Nicky Henderson
2nd OWNER: Hammer & Trowel Syndicate
3rd OWNER: Dai Griffiths
TOTE toteswingers:1&2:£8.80, 1&3:£11.60, 2&3:£14.80 WIN £6.40 PL £1.70, £1.60, £5.10; Ex £61.30; CSF £83.51; TRICAST £2230.95 TRIFECTA £1004.10 Pool: £11,280.84 - 8.31 winning units.
     
ANALYSISNOTEBOOKMY RACE NOTES
Khyber Kim´s success in this Grade 1 last season ended a run of five successive wins for Irish-trained runners, although three of those wins had been gained by Al Eile. This year´s line-up looked stronger than last year´s though, with the 2010 champion hurdler taking on the runner-up, third and fourth in this year´s running of that race. The pace was sound with the time being nearly 7secs faster than the opening novice hurdle, but it produced something of a surprise result, with both the market leaders running below par.

OSCAR WHISKY, a progressive sort who finished third in the Champion Hurdle when today´sfavourite was second, was likely to appreciate the return to a flatter track and longer trip and was given a positive ride by Barry Geraghty, who was completing a hat-trick on the afternoon. After tracking the leader, he went to the front five out and set sail for home at the third-last. He soon opened up an advantage and battled on well to hold off the strong-finishing winner. He will stick tohurdles next season when he will either be aimed at the Champion Hurdle again or step up in trip for the World Hurdle.

Thousand Stars had been running well behind stable companion Hurricane Fly in Ireland and finished a good fourth behind that gelding in the Champion Hurdle, two lengths behind today´s winner. Already a winner over 2m3f on good ground, he was held up off the pace and was quite keen early, but came out of the pack and, under an inspired ride, very nearly wore down the winner. He will probably go to Punchestown next.







This aintree form is nowhere near good enough to take  on the mighty BIG BUCKS at cheltenham - The ultimate staying machine


I'd compare it to HATTON v MAYWEATHER
Pause Switch to Standard View Oscar Whisky - doubtful stayer ?
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Report Ibrahima Sonko March 9, 2012 10:21 PM GMT
Still baffles me how some people think he can win a world hurdle, then making out he is best horse that BB has met.

That may well be true in some views, OW wont be at his best over 3 miles.
Report Angel Gabrial March 9, 2012 10:27 PM GMT
The difference between the pair is 7lb. The way Oscar Whiskey was ridden at Aintree was energy sapping. Sent for home 5 out and quickening and stretching all the time. In the World Hurdle there needs to be some pace from somewhere because OW will run too free. PFN has already said Big Bucks could even make the running if there is no pace.

Oscar Whiskey is by a sire who breeds 3 milers for fun. He only has to go another 3 furlongs from what he has done. The ground will be good and he has more pace than BB previous rivals.
Report ZEALOT March 9, 2012 10:31 PM GMT
Not much stamina on its dam's side .
Report Angel Gabrial March 9, 2012 10:31 PM GMT
Sonko

Who would have though Big Bucks would win the World Hurdle after his Hennessy fall.

Oacar Whiskey is class act. Who knows what will happen.
Report Glossy March 9, 2012 10:33 PM GMT
Nothing in his pedigree suggests he will stay 3m.
Report Angel Gabrial March 9, 2012 10:34 PM GMT
Oscar? being his sire and you say nothing!! what?
Report Angel Gabrial March 9, 2012 10:36 PM GMT
Staying well over 21f at Chelts. Nothing suggests he wont stay 3 miles.
Report ZEALOT March 9, 2012 10:37 PM GMT
Stamina is inherited from the dam's side .
Report the istabraq years March 9, 2012 10:37 PM GMT
Relax guys....we ll all find out at the last on Thursday and not before.
Report Glossy March 9, 2012 10:39 PM GMT
Oscar horses like Big Zeb? And as ZEALOT says, nothing on the dam side to suggest anything more than 2m.
Report Angel Gabrial March 9, 2012 10:41 PM GMT
Thats a myth Zealot. Plenty of grey areas regarding that fact.

Stamina can come from both sides. Do you think speed always comes from the sire?
Report ZEALOT March 9, 2012 10:42 PM GMT
he might have stayed 3m in that race he won - but against BIG BUCKS it is a totally different challenge .

If Ruby thinks there is not enough pace on , he will inject some and make it a true test .

I think people believe OW will be travelling like he was at the end of  the 21f race he won ,  with 3f to go in the world hurdle .

BIG BUCKS wins OH SO EASY .
Report Angel Gabrial March 9, 2012 10:42 PM GMT
Oscar horse like last years Grand National 2ndConfused
Report Angel Gabrial March 9, 2012 10:43 PM GMT
Big Bucks never wins easy in this race. Look at the 150 horses that could still be seen in the same picture.Mischief
Report Glossy March 9, 2012 10:43 PM GMT
I like OW and backed him plenty of times; including e/w in last years CH. Honestly don't see him even placed this year.
Report ZEALOT March 9, 2012 10:45 PM GMT
Well , its all about opinions but i thought the wins against PUNCH/ RUPERT and GRAND CRUS were all decisive and he could have pulled out even more if asked .
Report stevo1 March 9, 2012 10:56 PM GMT
Cross Kennon 4th last season tells you a story?
Report Angel Gabrial March 9, 2012 11:00 PM GMT
Very true Zealot he always does enough and then saves some more. Big Bucks is lazy at home and lazy on the course. He is a bit weird the way he runs, like he cant be bothered until he say `oh go on then` and stretches on.. the horse is a legend..

But Oscar Whiskey rated 167 is his biggest threat, if he stays of course.

Time For Rupert - needed soft ground. Didnt get it.
Punchestown - beaten fair and square.
Grand Crus - needed soft ground.

Oscar Whiskey will have his ground. Big chance imo.
Report Tucho March 9, 2012 11:16 PM GMT
i think oscar whiskey would be running in the champion hurdle if he had any other trainer. he ran a tremendous race last year and could go close again imo. it's only the fact hendo at one stage had 4 great horses in contention (binocular, spirit son, grandouet) that they decided to train him for the world hurdle

there's got to be better 4/1 shots next week who:
a) aren't facing a horse on a 15 race unbeaten streak
b) don't have a massive question mark about the trip hanging over them

i seriously like the horse, but if i miss out on backing oscar whiskey to win this race, i'll get over it
Report Glossy March 9, 2012 11:20 PM GMT
Spot on Tucho.
Report Angel Gabrial March 9, 2012 11:28 PM GMT
Oscar Whiskey would be just another horse in the Champion hurdle and as NH has realised the horse has relished being stepped up in trip. Only 1 horse to beat in the stayers and the fact that NH and Dai Walters are taking on BB suggests to me they think he will stay.
Report giggsy3444 March 9, 2012 11:32 PM GMT
the stamina of OW hasn't even been tested over 2m 5f this year. he won a 4 runner race at chelt agains inferior horses.
Report Angel Gabrial March 9, 2012 11:51 PM GMT
It was tested twice before then though. The first being an eased down 7L beating of Any Given Day. A horse beaten 8L by Big Bucks in last years World Hurdle.

He has won 3 times over 25f all at Chelts.
Report mightymoyes March 9, 2012 11:52 PM GMT
big bucks biggest threat comes from thousand stars.
Report Glossy March 9, 2012 11:54 PM GMT
Little bit leftfield but the horse unproven over the distance that is best equipped to stay the trip is Smad Place IMO. Has a lot of improvement in him and has shown an awful lot since his reappearance.
Report giggsy3444 March 10, 2012 12:02 AM GMT
25f?? i think you mean 2m 5f.  if you remember who finished 2nd to him in those races - cape tribulation  get me out of here and poungath (i know i spelt the nicolls horse wrong). cape and the nicolls horse would have to start now to even get placed in the world hurdle and GMOOH doesn't stay the trip and he still looked like he was going to get to OW until he started hanging. OW will be gasping for air on the long run to the last and BB will just be getting warmed up. BB has a bit of pace aswell. last year at the Aintree meeting people thought grand crus would have a better chance of beating him because of the sharper track and he ended up beating him even easier. this horse is a machine and he will prove it again on the 15th.
Report Angel Gabrial March 10, 2012 12:26 AM GMT
Cape Tribulation? were you got this from Grin

You mean Any Given Day - look at my previous postWink

Yes i meant 2m5f.
Report Angel Gabrial March 10, 2012 12:29 AM GMT
Giggsy

Were have you got Cape Tribulation with any form against Oscar Whiskey.

Laugh
Report giggsy3444 March 10, 2012 12:45 AM GMT
sorry lads it was Zaynar that beat cape tribulation. the point i am making is that whenever he won these races they were against horses that were not able to test his stamina fully. OW is a good horse but will he still have that 2m speed at the end of 3m. its a hell of a long way from the 2nd last to the last and the last thing BB will be doing is stopping. should be interesting.
Report Angel Gabrial March 10, 2012 12:51 AM GMT
Giggsy - you are forgiven but regarding none of those horses testing out OW stamina ANY GIVEN DAY has had a couple of cracks but failed, yet he gets within 8L of Big Bucks.

Will be interesting plus it will be a steadily run race next week.
Report buddeliea March 10, 2012 6:28 AM GMT
it's only the fact hendo at one stage had 4 great horses in contention (binocular, spirit son, grandouet) that they decided to train him for the world hurdle

Tucho
They were seriously thinking about the WH last April mate,this werent a reaction during the season.I was told that at the open day at Easter.

The OP says doubtful stayer? well to us he has to be,weve never seen him go further than 2m 5.But connections seem confident,lets hope they are right.

We can discusss till we are blue in the face but we wont know till next week.What i do know is that IF he does stay 3m then we are in for a great race.I really hope he does,for my pocket and for the race itself.
Come on Oscar!!
Report Ibrahima Sonko March 10, 2012 9:20 AM GMT
why have they not tried OW over 3 miles before cheltenham ??
Report buddeliea March 10, 2012 9:27 AM GMT
Well i think they must be confident he will stay,and running him over 3m would not make him stay any better on Thursday,he either will or wont.
It would tell US more,but they have to train him how they think he should be trained,and they would want him as fresh as possible.
Report Ibrahima Sonko March 10, 2012 9:56 AM GMT
You sound like you are trying to convince yourself Wink

I would think running him over 3 miles prior to cheltenham would at least teach him to settle over this new trip.

Thou its probably down to the owner wanting to win the welsh champion hurdle.

Still trying to remember if a horse has won the world hurdle without ever running over the trip or anywhere near it ??
Report Angel Gabrial March 10, 2012 10:03 AM GMT
Sonko

He has won an easy 30K from the two Cheltenham races this season over 2m5f.

The only race they avoided was the Cleve hurdle,  and why get in a battle with Big Bucks so early when you can mop up 30k? without emptying the horse.
Report Angel Gabrial March 10, 2012 10:09 AM GMT
Sonko

Still trying to remember if a horse has won the world hurdle without ever running over the trip or anywhere near it ??

Short memory SonkoConfused

Ingles Drever won twice over 21 f before beating Baracouda.

Oscar Whiskey has won 3 times over 21 f.
Report buddeliea March 10, 2012 10:20 AM GMT
Sonko,
ypu asked me a question,i answered it best i could without knowing the answer.
Not trying to convince myself ar anyone else,its simple,he either stays or dont,i dont know,none of us do.
Report Ibrahima Sonko March 10, 2012 10:42 AM GMT
was that straight after a novice season AG ??
Report buddeliea March 10, 2012 10:51 AM GMT
novice season?
Report Angel Gabrial March 10, 2012 12:21 PM GMT
Songo

was that straight after a novice season AG ??

Ingles Drever had 4 races out of novice company before winning the World Hurdle.
Oscar Whiskey has had 7 races out of novice company...not sure what point you are trying to make.
Report Arklearkle March 10, 2012 8:58 PM GMT
Angel you say "why get into a battle with BB so early". I dont believe PN would have been afraid of battle with OW at then. Perhaps this is the difference between the two horses. If it comes to a battle I know which one I want to be on.
Report charwell. March 12, 2012 12:20 PM GMT
I really fancy OW to lower BB colours this year. With the ground as it is I think OW  will see the trip out and in a tactical race could have a little too much toe for BB.
Report HankTheTank March 12, 2012 12:56 PM GMT
I really fancy OW to lower BB colours this year. With the ground as it is I think OW  will see the trip out and in a tactical race could have a little too much toe for BB.


The field for this race may well end up being very small. It's hard to see where a really good gallop will come from unless Dynaste tries to make all (very unlikely), Or Ruby decides to make the running on BB. PN has said they will be willing to do this but given BB's style of racing it's far from ideal.

Oscar Whisky at 4-1  1-2-3  1/4  unmissable value surely.
Report Angel Gabrial March 12, 2012 1:08 PM GMT
If they jog around and OW settles then i think he will have too much toe for BB.

So i think Ruby will have to take it up, they have to try and sap the stamina out of OW or else i think BB will be in trouble.
Report Derek double barrell March 12, 2012 10:15 PM GMT
When an owner/trainer gets a NH horse they either dream Gold Cup or Champion hurdle, no way the stayers hurdle. It is a race that certain horses just fall into. My point is, usually nothing with any real class takes part, until now that is. Baracouda, Inglis Drever, Big Bucks, were all able to dominate generally average animals and set up sequences.
In Oscar Whiskey BB faces something completely different IMO. Interestingly people say BB is tough, i saw a ATR clip with a chap that broke OW, when asked what he was like he said "you cold tell he was good,but the thing that stood out was how hard he was"
It's time for the Bully to meet the new kid in the playground.  ps Zealot, The Aintree form means nothing,he wont need to be going for home anywhere before half way up the run in.
Report Angel Gabrial March 12, 2012 10:35 PM GMT
Spot on Derek.
Report breadnbutter March 13, 2012 1:46 AM GMT
does thousand stars not outstay oscar ?
oscar looks like he wont get 3 in a horse box and i cannot think why NH would run him  against the best staying hurdler in the world unless he knows differant .Although WPM appears to be running 4 three of which have little chance imo .....strange race!
cant see the stars out of the first three ...but i have been wrong before .
Report BJG March 13, 2012 11:19 AM GMT
No. Form Horse Age Wt Trainer Jockey OR NagMe Bet
1 111-111 Big Buck's (FR) 47   9 11-10 P F Nicholls R Walsh 174
4/9
2 0214-35 Carlito Brigante (IRE) 20   6 11-10 t G Elliott D N Russell 155
33/1
3 14-5452 Cross Kennon (IRE) 26     8 11-10 p1 Jennie Candlish A O'keeffe 154
66/1
4 216-142 Dynaste (FR) 47   6 11-10 t1 D Pipe T Scudamore 161
14/1
5 6-92226 Five Dream (FR) 47   8 11-10 P F Nicholls Ryan Mahon 151
66/1
6 1F0-114 King Of The Night (GER) 117   8 11-10 P F Nicholls D A Jacob 157
100/1
7 831112 Mikael D'haguenet (FR) 25     8 11-10 W P Mullins 152
25/1
8 242231 Mourad (IRE) 25   7 11-10 W P Mullins 154
16/1
9 31-F111 Oscar Whisky (IRE) 34   7 11-10 N J Henderson B J Geraghty 167
4/1
10 1310-12 Smad Place (FR) 26 5 11-10 A King R Thornton 157
33/1
11 13-6111 So Young (FR) 60 6 11-10 W P Mullins 157
16/1
12 221123 Thousand Stars (FR) 46   8 11-10 W P Mullins 163
8/1
13 141112 Voler La Vedette (IRE) 49     8 11-3 t C A Murphy A E Lynch 154
16/1
Report Ibrahima Sonko March 15, 2012 3:28 PM GMT
could had won the champion.
Report Angel Gabrial March 15, 2012 3:45 PM GMT
Big Bucks bomb proof.

Oscar was a little free for the first 4 furlongs. No chance.

Big Bucks has so much pace at in the last 4 furlongs he kills them/
Report Tucho March 15, 2012 4:02 PM GMT
could had won the champion

indeed

go back to his season debut, he looked half fit, gave overturn 8lbs and was neck and neck when he got tired and fell at the last

Cry
Report BornToWin March 15, 2012 4:04 PM GMT
I said on another thread long ago he should went for Champion. This now surely fact.
Report unclepuncle March 15, 2012 4:20 PM GMT
After Grandouet and Spirit Son got injured they should obviously now have gone for the Champion - hindight is a wonderful thing isn't it.

I expect he will stay over hurdles now for the rest of his career (too late to go chasing imo) - so given how poor this years 2m novices look he could be a major player in next years Champion so if there are any fancy prices floating about I might have a tickle.
Report buddeliea March 15, 2012 5:04 PM GMT
yep back to 2m,2 and half.
Was always as simple as would he stay,he did'nt,thats that really.
Report findthevalue March 15, 2012 5:42 PM GMT
3 years in a row where the horse has been soundly beaten at the festival, a good horse...but simply not good enough to win a championship race at cheltenham over any distance,will always find at least one too good for him
Report buddeliea March 15, 2012 6:49 PM GMT
umm,think if there were a race at 2 and half he would take some beating,but yer right as it stands now probably.
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