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What race is this? WH Handicap on day 1?
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Yes, they keep changing it's name but it's that one
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The race I still call the "Ritz Club National Hunt Handicap Chase"
Second season chasers best but novices sometimes win - Fork Lightning 2004 as well as Witchita Lineman show it can be done. |
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Thanks b2.
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Just remembered Dun Doire was a novice as well. So 3 of last 8 were novices. Best wait to see the entries to finalise but Quantitativeeasing is an obvious one for shortlist. Second season chaser, still improving, looked like he might get further when winning valuable and fast run Cheltenham handicap last time. Trainer is do a bit better with stayers these days, used to be fastest way to the poor house I knew of to back Henderson horses when they step up in trip but this horse did run in the Irish National so they clearly believe he stays.
Current rating is outside the range above at 153 but I don't use Official Rating trends when profiling horses, ratings tend to drift upwards over time and that makes hard and fast rules based on small samples a mistake IMO. Actual weight carried is more of a factor in certain races but I can remember good horses winning this with quite big weights and there is no real reason for high weights to do badly over this C&D. Progressive 2nd season horse or good winning novice the most important thing. |
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The form of his festival race is holding up well too thieves, and JP absolutley loves winners at Cheltenham and targets them well.
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I've had Knockara Beau in mind for this race for some time and judging from quotes this week it is the likely aim. Connections unhappy that it's been raised 7lbs to 147 since last Saturday's run and so am I! - really don't know what they thought they would gain by running it there. 147 still gives capability of a good run as most course form would suggest he can be 150+ here but 140 would have been oh so nice
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That's the one I had in mind also Rod, although to be fair to connections he picked up nearly 11k for the 3rd at the weekend. He'd need to be 1st or 2nd in this race to earn more than that.
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would love to see Quantitativeeasing (sic) run in this - the form of the Spinal Research race is very strong and he may well appreciate the extra distance
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Knockara is good and consistent around Cheltenham, but he doesn't look to have anything in hand on a mark of 147. In fact I'd say it is almost exactly right so not good for his chances.
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thieves
I agree in essence with your point about not using official ratings as a strong indicator in cutting potential winners down to size, but the Festival handicap stat does stand up to pretty close scrutiny (that one being that lighter weights tend to come to the fore). Seems to me that these races are simply run harder and faster than any others all year, and that is when the weight difference can become an issue, especially when those at the foot of the handicap are improving. I like Quantitativeasing but think he'll do well not to bump into a few better handicapped runners. At what I hope might be a big price, I think Wayward Prince could go well if he has dropped to the mid-low 140s. He's certainly disappointed this season but he must have a squeak in a race that will be run to suit. The RSA bunch were no great shakes but he was staying on dourly in that and was beaten such a small distance he must be capable of winning off 144ish. This race often turns into a gruelling stamina fest, so if he is in the mood I would be taking him very seriously. |
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Strontium, Barnsey re Knockara Beau. He would of been on my shortlist before his run at the weekend put him up 7lb. l still think he is a player for the race but thought the others had a more progressive profile. His Cheltenham record is very good though when running over 3m or more, he's yet to be out of the first 4.
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Thieves, Judorik re Quantitativeeasing no horse rated more than 150 has won this race for 29 years so that would put me off this horse. Also l note he is one of the favourites for the Byrne Plate race which is over the C&D he won at earlier in the season. lf he where to run in this race though l think it would be to keep the weights down for Sunnyhill Boy, especailly when you consider that horse was well backed to win the race that Quantitativeeasing won so they must still think he's well handicapped.
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Tomdene re Wayward Prince, although you would think the Hennessey, being the strongest 3m handicap of the season, would be a strong pointer to this race it actually has a terrible record for its runners in this race. l don't have the stats to hand but off the top of my head l don't think a Hennessey runner has been placed in this race for the last 15 years let alone won this race. Like l said l don't have the figures to hand so if anyone does maybe they can post them.
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Thieves re weights carried to victory in this race. Since 1997 there have been 3 horses carry more than 11st to win this race. Bensalem last year and Flyer's Nap in 1997 carried just 11-2 and the other was Unguided Missile who carried 11-10 the following year in 1998. All other winners have carried less than 11st, so personally l wouldn't be looking too far up the handicap.
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Bland82, I can recall almost being put off Tipping Tim in this race some years back because he only had 10-0 and no light weighted horse had won for ages! I decided at the time that the stat made no real sense as I would be backing the horse if it had more weight. If you cannot find a rationale for a stat based on such small samples then it is probably meaningless. Fact is, most horses above 11st are older and more exposed. If a horse is progressive then any racing weight is ok for me. As for using OR's I just cannot have it, they drift too much over time and races such as this one differ quite a bit in class from year to year, this one in particular as it is an alternative to the Gold Cup if the GC looks too strong in certain years.
Quant is one of the favs for the Byrne Plate but he is also one of the favs for this! There is reason to believe that the trip might bring out further progression, which actually makes him a stronger contender for this than for the Byrne where he might look a bit exposed. |
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Also re Hennessey just gone shocking renewal re horses running since.
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Bland - re Knocakara - point taken and he might be an unfashionable e/w bet as the type to stay on for a place. But it's hard to believe there won't be something better handicapped lurking down the bottom of the weights that will beat him. As you already seem to know, this is a very strong trends race.
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Strontium l can certainly see him staying on strongly, probably after getting outpaced as he generally does, it just depends on how many are in front of him at the bottom of the hill as to whether he runs into a place or not. lt will be interesting to see how many Irish runners are entered and what marks they get as the handicapper seems to have been giving them a chance in the last few years.
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Re Knockara, have to say I thought 7LB rise was harsh compared to the 5LB Midnight Chase got. 2or3 would have been fair in my book and it could cost him in this race.
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He's just gone back to where he was a year ago, before which he had been very consistent.
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I appreciate that Stront, however he was a long way behind Midnight Chase in a Hcp at Wetherby over Xmas and if he meets him again he will be worse off. Seems illogical to me.
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I agree it is hard to rationalise. I'd say KB is half a stone better at Cheltenham than elsewhere though and he does much of his racing there so that's where he ends up being rated effectively.
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Stront, the same can be said of MC though. Anyway it's not our decision is it.
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true and true
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Just seen that Quantitativeeasing has been entered for the National, maybe a pointer towards what his Cheltenham target will be as he still needs a top 4 finish in a 3 mile+ chase to qualify?
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Hold on Julio, ante-post favourite for the Haydock Grand National trial on Saturday, will miss the race.
Alan King said: “Haydock was never really amongst the plans – Hold on Julio will either run in the Racing Post Chase at Kempton on Saturday week or wait for the Spinal Injuries Chase at Cheltenham that we won with Bensalem last year. “We have entered Julio for the National, and the weights for Aintree are released tomorrow, so we will wait and see how he has been assessed before making firm plans. “If we do decide to aim him at the National it might be worth heading for Kempton as that would give him a bit more time to prepare for Aintree than if we went to the Festival. “Julio has stopped coughing – that prevented him from running in the Skybet Chase at Doncaster – and is working well again.” |
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Dont' think Cappa Bleu did his chances any harm although he could be set for a rise in the weights and may of handicapped himself out of this race. He could also bypass it completely and head straight to Aintree. We now know that Hold On Julio is being targeted at this race after been withdrawn from the Racing+ chase at the weekend.
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Dont' think Cappa Bleu did his chances any harm although he could be set for a rise in the weights and may of handicapped himself out of this race. He could also bypass it completely and head straight to Aintree. We now know that Hold On Julio is being targeted at this race after been withdrawn from the Racing+ chase at the weekend.
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Julio jumps ok it wins imo.
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is Quantitativeeasing running in this?
I won't be opposing him wherever he runs and he needs at least 3 miles now. The run in the Spinal research is absolutely top class form and he is going to be hard to beat. I think he can go right to the top, still only had a handful of chases and only just getting his act together - be 170+ at 3 miles plus within 12 months |
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Reve De Sivola at a huge price would interest me (48 on here now but not sure if he's running).
I'd also like Quant'easing, more so if McCoy is riding Sunnyhillboy. |
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Sunnyhillboy laid out for the National, Reve de Sivola needs much further than 3 mile 1 furlong these days
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As pointed out above will be running off above 150, so if you think he will be 170+ within 12 months think you better get on! Agree was top form, race fell for him with 2nd and 3rd both making mistakes at crucial time.
Roudoudou Ville the one for Byrne Plate on at 14s, good luck whichever race he runs it. |
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Quantitiveeasing has to finish in the 1st 4 of a 3m chase to qualify for the National so has to go for this
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Reve de S is out injured for at least 12 months (according to the OFTS thread).
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Stormey if they serious re National dont think it wants a hard race with big weight, before Aintree tbh.
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surely they won't go for the National with QE? Pfft, nowhere near enough experience, was a novice last season, doesn't jump well enough... I love the horse but don't see him as a National candidate. Betfair Bowl Grade 2 miles if he wins the William Hill or Punchestown Gold Cup?
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JP loves the Festival more than anything though. He won't leave a horse with a decent Cheltenham chance in its box, National or not.
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