NRNB firms?

no mate only lads so far nrnb on the 4 championship races ,waiting and hoping they go nrnb on all races at chelt in the next 3-4 weeks ,one can hope .

cheers foyles, fingers crossed!

Victor Chandler laid me a NRMB bet on the Neptune yesterday, admittedly at a price shorter than the AP one advertised, but that's understandable. Maybe a case of ask and you'll get?

Joshicho,

Some firms are NRNB on X4 championship races now. Last year Chelt entries were released Apprx: Feb 21st, Weights were released Feb 25th. Betfred, Paddy Power & Bet 365 went NRNB from Feb 26th (One day after Chelt weights released). All other bookies went NRNB from Mar 7th. Hope this helped you.

Weights are released Wed 29 Feb, no-one will be NRNB all races until after this date.
I meant to do it last year and forgot (again !) but I've long said the minute the NRNB concession comes in the market has no value and the SPs (or at least the morning price on any horse) are bigger than the ante post price with the NRNB.

That makes no sense horse9. NRNB is a huge concession, and granted bookies factor in that say a horse could be 16/1 if he's unlikely to go, but have to then offer 10/1 if they are going non-runner no bet. But that doesn't mean that the 10/1 is therefore bad value just because it's shorter. Antepost NRNB is a huge advantage if you're doing it right because you're getting getting the good points of antepost betting (better price & no rule 4, plus often advantages place terms if you suspect that the race will cut up) with positives of taking an early price on the morning. It just takes a lot of the guessing out of the game.

A simple example is Captain Chris. You can either back him at 16s or 12s NRNB. Sure if he gets there well on the day and you've taken the 16s then you're sitting prettier, but you have take into consideration that he's unlikely to go unless his prep goes well, and then in which case he's likely to be shorter than 12s anyway. There's probably a higher than 25% chance that he doesn't turn up anyway.

At the moment it's slightly different because there's only one firm offering it, so there prices are bound to be shorter for a certain type of runner, but once all or most firms do it, then they'll then still be competing with each other to offer better prices, so there's still value to be had.

Fair points, but backing a horse at 10s a wekk before the race when invariably his SP will be bigger can't be value surely ?
Obviously you get the security of money back if your horse doesn't go which, in the extended festival, has some value, but I think that unless you're on well in advance you're better off waiting until the day.
I backed Bensalem in the old W Hill chase last year at 5s a week before the race and topped up at 11/2 on course and he was only ever going for the one race.
All about opinions I guess, but I won't be in a hurry to snap up prices a week before again...

I took 5/2 NRMB Fingal Bay for the Neptune, and I feel that's good value, given he's 4/1 with a number of firms, and there's every chance he might go for the Albert Bartlett. I expect 5/2 will be very competitive if he's confirmed for the two & a half mile race.

With billy hils you can back FB to win ANY race at the chelt festival at 4/1. Thought that was a fairish bet if he is a strong fancy for anyone.

Hobbs has confirmed FB goes straight to the Neptune.

I have to agree with dtamutants on this one.

The value you get when you back early NRNB is massive compared to waiting on the day - its antepost punting with non of the risk.  OK, you miss some of the enhanced place terms on the day, ie 5 places for the big handicaps, but it is equalled out by the better prices.

Examples of bets I placed at Cheltenham last year when NRNB first came out, compared to the SP.  All of the ones below lost as well, so I'm not accused of aftertiming

Maljimar - Cross Country - 14/1 NRNB vs 9/2 SP
Gagewell Flyer - Albert Bartlett - 25/1 NRNB vs 15/2 SP
Knight Pass - Bumper - 10/1 NRNB vs 7/1 SP
Rubi Light - Ryanair - 33/1 NRNB vs 16/1 SP
Ballyhaunis - Coral Cup - 25/1 NRNB vs 10/1 SP
Alaivan - Coral Cup - 16/1 NRNB vs 10/1 SP

I also backed Blazing Tempo for the Centenary Novices NRNB and she went for the Jewson, and backed Captain Chris NRNB for the Jewson who went the Arkle.

It could be argued that all of the above lost so there is no value, as its better to get a short price winner than a long priced loser.  However, I made my mind up that I would back these on the day anyway, so whether they were backed in Feb or on the day I would have picked the same selections.

For example, last year you could have backed the Fly at about 5/1 NRNB the week before the race and not have a Rule 4.  If that withdrawal was the day before the race there would have been a large Rule 4.

You can always back NRNB at long odds and then lay off when the prices shorten when the races cut up.

Each to their own I guess.  NRNB is another option that's good for punters, whenther you choose to use it or not.

Erm but if you betting with Lads, whom are the only firm nrnb at the moment, you are betting with a risk of a rule 4, i do not care what people are saying on here, go into a shop and ask one of the clerks to put one of their markets up on the screen that they are nrnb for at the chelt fest and it clearly states

NON RUNNER MONEY BACK - RULE 4 MAY APPLY

I have asked about this and every shop manager has said this is the case! Hardly value this early is it?

I have backed a couple with the firm, 2 that have other engagements and so may not be a runner in the races i have backed. But in the races i have backed, there is little chance of others of the other principles not running, where as, what if you have backed something e/w in the world e.g and god forbid Big Bucks stands on something on the gallops and misses the race, thats one heck of a rule 4!

Fair play it does not state this online and therefore if you can get a bet on online then good luck to you but if not, your stumped aint you!

All of the bets I've mentioned above were put on until about mid February, using a variety of bookies.

Did you put your Lads bet on in the shop?  Sometimes you get different terms and conditions if you bet in a shop rather than online or over the phone (ie last time I went into a Hills shop they didn't do Best Odds Gauranteed, but did Online).

There is definitely no rule 4 using Lads online.  It doesn't mention it anywhere on the website, and if they do take a Rule 4 out I'm sure that's misselling a bet and I'm sure there is some sort of legislation, like Sale of Goods Act, or something to protect you?

It is always different in a shop to online and phone. They are different companies operating under the same name. Badbrokes and Badbrokes.com. It is the same with all firms with respect to their shops and online. This is what they argue.

Going back to the nrnb, your right wellchief, online there is no rule 4 but in shops there is the chance of a rule 4. This is just to cover themselves. I am not sure how they would instigate it. I do no should BB come out and you have backed something else then there will be a rule 4 if your antepost bet is placed in a shop. Just like i have backed Zarkander in a laddies shop for the champ hdl, if Hurricane Fly comes out of the race my bet will be hit with a rule 4, this is what i have been told and those were the rules that was on the screen when i placed the bet. Though i think the timing of the bet placed, odds taken and timing of whichever non runner is important which is why i am not sure as to how it will be instigated as in respect to rule 4, as again, i know the place terms do not change as these are still antepost rules.

Seathestars, just been looking through Lads site, and could see nothing, so started searching other racing forums....and sorry mate, I owe you an apology.

Came across this forum:
http://www.theracingforum.co.uk/horse-racing-forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=88934&start=13

One email from Laddies to a punter who based on a bet placed online "Thank you for your e-mail regarding your bet. I can confirm that if Big Bucks is withdrawn from the race an appropiate Rule 4 deduction will be applied to any bets placed in the Non Runner No Bet market."

Another quote "Kasp,I thought it might be just the 'World Hurdle' that had the Rule 4 proviso due to Big Bucks being an Odds-on fav so i spoke to them again tonight and guess what i have been told this time........LADBROKES will apply a Rule 4 to ALL Cheltenham NRNB wagers thats after being re-assured that my Synchronised bet would be paid at 12/1 if he was the only horse to turn up"

I don't get it though, the Lads site says "Rule 4 deductions are only made from the Starting Price (see Bet Glossary) of a horse when a horse is withdrawn just before the race and there is no time to start or ‘reform’ a new market."

So surely a Rule 4 should only come in after the Decs when there isn't time to "reform the market".  If Big Bucks is a NR from tomorrow they've got 2 months to reform the market!!

Gonna email Lads and get clarification

Just sent this email to Lads and will post any response I get from them

Hello,

This query is in relation to the Non Runner = Money Back promotion you currently have on for the 4 races at the Cheltenham Festival.

I have placed bets with you for Spirit Son 8/1 NRNB, Captain Chirs 33/1 NRNB and Thousand Stars 12/1 NRNB.  I placed all of these bets online, but could you tell me if there will be a Rule 4 applicable if one of the market leaders is withdrawn in any of the races?

It doesn't mention this anywhere on the internet site, but staff members in Ladbrokes shops are saying a Rule 4 will apply?

Can you please clarify:
a) Is a Rule 4 applicable if placing a bet online?
b) Is a Rule 4 applicable if placing a bet in a high street shop?

Kind Regards

wellchief

I would suggest:

a) 1.01 no R4
b) 1.01 no R4

I look forward to reading the response you get wellchief.

1000-1 r4 deduction

Can i have a ton on your 1000/1 roosterbooster please? LOL. I am guessing you do not go into the shops?

Just to re-stipulate what i have already said above, there will be no R4 deduction for bets placed online or on the phone, R4 will/may apply when placed in shop!!!

There is No Rule 4.

I spoke to one of their advisors on their on-line chat facility and had it confirmed.

Go on their site and try it, you'll get an immediate reply.

So then in that case why does it clearly state there is on screen in all of their shops? When u ask the manager, in any of those shops, the manager will look at the screen and say, "thats what it says"!!!

I have just returned from my local l**brokes.
The screens for the 4 c'ship races clearly state NON RUNNER = MONEY BACK, with no mention of any Rule 4.
I asked the manager to phone head office to confirm that Rule 4 did not apply, which he did and reitterated that under NO CIRCUMSTANCES, will this concession be subject to Rule 4 deductions.

Wow so it is the same as last year then where when they started the concession of nrnb they had rule 4 may apply on the screens first couple weeks, then all of a sudden when people started to question it on here and elsewhere etc they changed them! Mental isn't it, so incompetant!

I fully apologise for my earlier postings then but i am going to pop in and check for myself now and ask again. But i was correct at the time i posted my above comments in that this was what was being portrayed on the screens at least when i placed my Grand Crus bets for gold cup and Zarkander for champ hdl!

I best not now be rule 4'd, just cos those were the rules when i placed my bet but have now changed but put my bets on when it was the case, knowing my local shop manager that is exactly what he will do!

Great work Saxon Farm

I'll post the reply to my email, if, and when, I get it.  I think they'd have too much bad publicity and people leaving them if they start rule 4'ing AP bets.

I therfore stand by my earlier post and say NRNB is great

must be good for buissness for laddies ive had a good few nrnb with them for the festival ,bets i would have waited till much nearer the time if they wernt doing nrnb, wonder if any of the others will follow suit .

same here...fair dues to them and i wouldnt be their biggest fan

people right the same old nonsense every year,what you should remember is 98pct of the staff you will get through to at ladbrokes on the phone or working behind a till in a shop have no idea and will give you their best 'cover their own arse' guess which i suggest is worthless.i have been betting nrnb in mass portfolio shops and net trading since rough quest was winning william hill chases and have never had any bet subject to a r4 with any firm ever...hope that helps!

Baldy go NRNB on Gold Cup from 9.00am Thursday 12th January.

Yeah Betfred NRNB announced on Talksport this morning for Gold Cup.  Top priced 11/4 for Long Run Backers.  Overall better prices than Laddies.

So they should - they sponsor the race after all.

To be fair Strontium, they have not shortened their prices for this concession, unlike Ladbrokes.

You may not get too popular round here being fair to Betbald

You've probably realised, I say it how I see it.

Doesn't bother me

T0tesp0rt have also gone NRNB today for the Gold Cup.

T0tesport = Betfred now on the fixed odds side since Baldy bought the Tote.

Bet £3-65 have gone nrnb today on all four c'hip races...    any value spotted anyone  ??

Hope you all went and took the 7/4 with Lads NRNB instead of the 9/4 without NRNB for Hurricane Fly letting the bookies keep nearly a quarter of your possible winnings (others who do proper antepost call this the 'value') for a reigning champion, the best since Istabraq who can only have one target.

Cake eat want your and it. Antepost are totally at you sh1t. Back horse-racing go forum to the. Day of race c ack prices no value with can discussed there be.

Spirit Son 5/1 NRNB w/out The Fly looks a good price to me, seen as he is 7/1 with The Fly

eric_morris
Date Joined: 27 Jun 10 Add contact | Send message
When: 17 Jan 12 16:47 Joined: Date Joined: 27 Jun 10 | Topic/replies: 3,304 | Blogger: eric_morris's blog
Hope you all went and took the 7/4 with Lads NRNB instead of the 9/4 without NRNB for Hurricane Fly letting the bookies keep nearly a quarter of your possible winnings (others who do proper antepost call this the 'value') for a reigning champion, the best since Istabraq who can only have one target.

The horse has made one festival in three and has spent the last 6 months in a hammock sipping a pina colada and puffing on a Montecristo, you could've picked a better example with which to attempt to patronise the forum. IF he gets there on the day, 7/4 will look huge. And no, I've not backed it.

I would strongly advise all NRNB fans to peruse 365's Champion Hurdle market.

FFS.

basically same as laddies?..the fact they are nrnb they will be conservative