master minded

I though his price was stupid the other day, but you'd have to be a bit disappointed with that run.

I could forgive if he'd travelled well and jumped with fluency and then kind of blew up in the home straight, but he just didn't jump or travel nowhere near as well as he can throughout the entire race.

Not writing him off at all at this stage, but would want to see him put a performance in like we know he can, before even considering backing him in the King George.

Although I do agree about the Ryanair, and 10/1 is a massive price providing if he can get back to the form of his Aintree run at the end of last season

I'm not overly convinced he'll ever win another race

Might be a bit early to write him off, of course

Unfit, no point having him ready this time of yr. Think he will also appreciate softer ground (though he obviously has won on that ground).

Think he's just turning into a horse that you can't place any faith in anymore. Don't know what Master Minded is gonna turn up won't be carrying any of my money this season.

He is very frustrating.

After they identified an injury, treated it, and then looking so good in the (admittedly weak) 2010 Game Spirit, I really thought he was back for good. Then when he was beaten in the QMCC I gave up on him!

Last yr he looked magnificent when stepped up for the Amlin, very good on soft ground in the Tingle Creek, and impressive enough (though perhaps not given a great ride) against Somersby in the VC Chase, and I thought he was back for good. Then he flopped in the QMCC again (ground? trip?).

I would forgive him his run on Saturday, but I do not trust the form of his Aintree win at all in April. I think he needs further than 2 and soft ground and he'll be ok, but a hard horse to trust. I am not sure even at his very best I would fancy him for the King George. Last yr, a stayer won it. I am not sure he'd get home in that sort of race.

He has developed that frustrating side...(mainly because i give up on him and am left kicking myself and repeating over and over again...what a price, after he bolts up) but we've seen that he bounces back from below par runs...nicholls says he was short and some of his horses have been short.....i thought he travelled fine until the mistakes.

On his day he is brilliant and it's because he needs to jump and travel well to do the business...he can't seem to be able to win ugly and make a couple of errors without falling apart. anyway that's just him and there's no way i would give up on him and i think i'd have to have something on him in the king george...just in case he loves the trip and bolts up!!!

^ What he said!

The fact that he seems to throw in the odd shocker can play into punters' hands - this is a horse of momentous talent with a CV of wins that some superstars couldn't even dream of, and as we know he can bounce back from a disappointment, he should never be allowed to go off at anything approaching a decent price. I'm not sure he is a Cheltenham horse these days, with 2m seeming to be slightly too short against the very best, but would I back him at 10s if he arrives for the Ryanair on the back of a disappointment? Definitely! I can't think of many races in which he should be bigger than 4 or 5-1ish, just using his amazing talent as a stating point.

yep,fair points

He's done a lot of special things as a young horse and maybe lost a little bit of spark over 2 miles.. Also think he just chucks the odd bad race now like many horses do. Can't really judge him at 2/5 in a poxy race at the start of the season. Obv only reason he ran in it is because Smith wanted to go & watch Kauto so was a total afterthought in his prep. I think 10/1 is a fair price in King George although Long Run is going to be ridiculously hard to beat. If Master Minded starts jumping like he can and puts pressure on the field it would be no surprise to see him win would it?

well yes,as he has never ran the distance,and he will be up against a KG and GC winner.

Already said he would be ridiculously hard to beat but what I am saying is it would not be a surprise to see Master minded put in a really big performance. We have seen it all before.

not at 3m.
Big performances have been at 2m.

When did I mention 3m? I'm talking about big performances. Nicholls obv thinks he will stay. If he does I'm not really gonna be surprised if he runs a big race. Not really trying to argue about the horse. Just saying it how it is.

lets just set the record staight, masterminded wont ever win at the festival again! will be 3 years since hes won at festival come march, last twice he been beat miles, hasnt got the speed to live wiv big zeb, sizing europe, and he is not the same horse he was in terms of the festival and winning there, dont get me wrong he will still win good races just not at the festival which is the pinnicle of racing!

i think hed give the ryanair a good lash if he went there

if he ran his race in the ryanair...there wouldn't be anything in the field to touch him.......it's a race for the "not quites" and on his day he is still top class....he will have more of good days where he will jump and travel like a dream....he'd be a fascinating horse in the king george for me and i hope he turns up there.

i agree duffy, id be quite confident hed stay

well it would add that real spice to the race wouldn't it...if sizing europe turned up too ...better still......it may well end up as a long run romp but if those two stayed and ran their races then....wow what a race it would be.

MM,
you mentioned we had seen it all before,i just pointed out not at 3m,which is the crucial part when talking about running a big race in the KG.

Wheres the confidence he would stay 3m come from lads??

Plus Kempton is a tough 3 m as they gallop from the tape to the line.

Personally, I think he can win a third Champion Chase but he needs to be ridden right up with the pace. In 2009 Ruby pretty much put him to sleep in midfield and expected him to wake with a blistering turn of foot four out. Last year the same, got caught napping and didn't have the pace to challenge from the position he was in. Let him go out front - if connections are convinced he stays then he should have enough in the tank to dictate and get his jumping into a sound rhythm.

i would agree that he would have more chance in the QM than the Gold Cup,but the way hes being trained now it looks very much to me that he will end up in the Ryannair after he fails to stay in the KGeorge.
And thats the race that imo he should be in,just think their are better 2 milers around now,and it seems his connections think that as well.

You may be right, but personally I feel the 2 mile division is wide open and anyone's for the taking. Take Sizing Europe out of the Champion Chase betting and we're left with Finians Rainbow, Big Zeb, Captain Chris, Tataniano, Noble Prince, Ghizao & Realt Dubh as the leading principles.

I'm a big fan of Finians Rainbow but im far from convinced he's out the very top draw...last years Arkle was in my opinion a poor renewal. Big Zeb is pure class but will be 11 years old, Captain Chris would have a huge chance if he were to line up but I'm far from convinced he will, Tataniano was very impressive at Chepstow but a Champion Chase would represent a huge step up in class, Noble Prince has yet to convince, Ghizao could improve but looks held on form, and Realt Dubh id suggest needs further.

interesting reading the handicappers blog on the rp website, he says he put tataniano up to 169 putting him in the mix for the cc. i think captain chris could take all the beating, or wishfull thinking if they were to go!

tataniano is an interesting one given he gets his ground....that run he put in at aintree season before last was one of "those" performances wasn't it.

yeah it was in novice company but v good all the same. if hes back on track there could be improvement in him

Tataniano looked quite impressive for a seasonal debut on Saturday and beat some useful sorts.

Arkle winners have a subperb recvord in the QMCC so Capt Chris has to be worth a look. I thouhgt the plan was 3 m, but he has an entry in the Haldon gold Cup.

I'm surprised Big Zeb still gets so much positive attention here - he can't be getting any better at his age.

probably cos he beat SE end of season,but i agree he is getting on,although still a class act imo.

If Captain Chris goes this route hes a big player and so is SE should he stay at 2m.
Lot of iffs about this race with not knowing which horses will be aimed at the race.
FR will be but imo he wont be quiet good enough.Well thats if the best turn up!!

Master Minded must go for the Ryanair imo.  As I've said, I definitely wouldn't write him off, and I don't know how people can say he won't win at the festival again!

2m4f would be his perfect trip now, and apart from this first demolition job in the Queen Mum, imo his best performances have been over 2m4; although you can't blame Nicholls in trying 3 miles because if you don't try you don't know.

For me, Master Minded vs Riverside Theatre would be a great duel in the Ryanair.  I really hope the gamble to keep Kauto in training pays off, and Clive Smith will have him in the Gold Cup and MM  can take his place in the Ryanair.

Also, re Tataniano, I can't see him being a player at all in the Champion Chase.  This is exactly the same as Woolcombe Folly last year were he put in a great handicap performance, put up to 169, and his limitations were exposed when it mattered.

I like Tataniano a lot and had a nibble at him for last yrs QMCC but i wonder if he wants really decent ground (which he'll get in March probably) but maybe also a flat-ish track . he's won at Cheltenham and on fairly undulating tracks, but for some reason it is in my mind that he'll not be able to blitz off and make all, as he did on saturday, against genuine G1 horses at Cheltenham. Its in my mind that he may be a bit soft.

RC & wellchief - interesting analogies, especially to Wollcombe Folly. One difference is, Tatatiano has already but up a huge performance in a (novice) G1 whereas WF never did.

Tatat didn't get especially good ground on Saturday and Chepsrow is hardly a flat track - but then that was probably 10+ lbs off G1 winning form. I like the thought that he would not be able to bully a QMCC field. Presumably he'll get a spin in the Tingle Creek if Nicholls thinks he's a serious QMCC horse.

That day at Liverpool was the day that I thought 'i must back him for the QMCC'. I know that form was moderate (beating the slowest 2 mile prospect ever, Osana, on what was IMO verging on quickish ground) but he was electric. Nicholls claims we should forget last yr, but once or twice before last yr I had thought he looked soft or was an 'excuse horse' and last yr kind of confirmed it in my mind (probably erroneously). We'll see. Sandown could be interesting. It suits front runners and he should be fresh (as he likes to be) against another front runner in Finians rainbow (I assume he'd go there)who although runs well FTO, may not be quite as sharp in terms of fitness as Tataniano.