Cheltenham Festival
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...but was this year's Gold Cup the worst ever?
I love Denman and Kauto Star, but they're 11-years-old and as such should not be finishing 2nd & 3rd in a 'good' Gold Cup IMO.
Imperial Commander never ran his race, nor did Kempes, Pandorama hated the ground, What A Friend finished 4th, Midnight Chase 5th, Tidal Bay 6th, Weird Al pulled up, as did China Rock...in short, the race fell apart!
Before Long Run backers start congratulating themselves too much, consider you might have got lucky so many failed to shine on the day! I didn't think he could win this year's race and I don't think he'll win next year's! The next big think in racing!? Bollocks!
I love Denman and Kauto Star, but they're 11-years-old and as such should not be finishing 2nd & 3rd in a 'good' Gold Cup IMO.
Imperial Commander never ran his race, nor did Kempes, Pandorama hated the ground, What A Friend finished 4th, Midnight Chase 5th, Tidal Bay 6th, Weird Al pulled up, as did China Rock...in short, the race fell apart!
Before Long Run backers start congratulating themselves too much, consider you might have got lucky so many failed to shine on the day! I didn't think he could win this year's race and I don't think he'll win next year's! The next big think in racing!? Bollocks!
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Take your point about the form not being vintage. But its very harsh to criticise the horse. He is only 6 years old, has lots of potential improvement in him, and can do no more than win.
And how good will he need to be to dominate for the next couple of years? Weapons Amnesty is the only challenger I can think of. IC, Kauto and Denman not getting any younger and didnt think it was a vintage RSA. Its like people who criticse Best Mate. Form was never great, but he was the best at that time. |
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Wayward Prince, Time For Rupert, Burton Port, Weapons Amnesty, Jessies Dream, Boston's Angel...he's going to have to be something very special to beat that lot next year!
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 I take it you were not on!? |
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'very special' might be a bit much. But its a good job he is anyway...
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broke course record
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Of course I wasn't on...it won, I wasn't on anything that won this year!!
I think if he can beat all of them with their various weaponry he can be called very special; if he can jump as well as Rupert on his day, out stay Wayward Prince and Burton Port, and nullify the class of Weapon's Amnesty, Boston's Angel and Jessies Dream then he's got nothing left to prove in my eyes! We'll see... |
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I'm sorry but you can't really knock Long Run. It wouldn't matter if he never won another race in his life he is still a great gold cup winner. He routed the field in the King George and backed it up by breaking the course record at a course he supposedly doesn't like. To say two of the greatest staying chasers of all time shouldn't be getting placed is ridiculous. If you can't look at that race and not think he's a very good winner I would give up because you will be lucky to see many horses do that coming up to the age of 6.
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I'd say this years unplaced horses were MUCH MUCH stronger than the unplaced ones the year before. Consider:
4th What a Friend vs Carruthers (1 - 0) 5th Midnight Chase vs Cooldine (1 - 1) 6th Tidal Bay vs Calgary Bay (2 - 1) 7th Pandorama vs My Will (3 - 1) 8th Neptune Collonges vs Cerium (4-1) Plus theres the others that were pulled up, fell or distance Weird Al, Kempes and China Rock vs Tricky Trickster and Mister Pointment For me, this year's Gold Cup had a huge amount of strength in depth |
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Was taking this thread seriously until Wayward Prince was first mentioned as potential Gold Cup challengers
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^ |
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Denman has never been out of the first two around Cheltenham and is as good a yardstick as you could possibly hope for. They be 11 years old but they were well above average GC winners so for me the form, particularly with Denman, is rock solid.
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Diamond Harry and Burt Port beat Denman 15 lengths receiving 2 stones .. LR beat him 7 lengths off levels !
THAR YE GO, as Mick Fitz would say. |
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You all taking 3's about him to repeat next year then are you!?
Diamond Harry and Burton Port beat Denman 15 lengths receiving 2 stone, LR beat him 7 lengths off levels...on ground which didn't suit Denman and it wasn't Long Run's first run out of novice company was it!? What's wrong with Wayward Prince!? |
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and young horses dont progress from the start of the season to the end...?
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Yeah of course they do, that's what I mean, you can't compare Diamond Harry and Burton Port in the current stage of their career to Long Run! Long Run is pretty much a seasoned campaigner now! The reason he beat Denman by 7 lengths off levels and Diamond Harry and Long Run could ONLY(?) beat him 15 lengths receiving 2 stone is because Long Run has progressed as the seasons gone on! If he's anywhere near peaked there's every chance Diamond Harry and Burton Port could improve past him, that's all I meant!
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i was backing that up...[;)]
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Some good points on here,and in particular the mentioning of the RSA horses for next year.
That was a real good renewal of the RSA imo and the first 3 home in that will certainly be a threat next year,along with Weapons Amnesty and Diamond Harry,and no doubt a few others will spring up somewhere!! The new generation has arrived. |
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My opinion on the race is I can't have Denmans performance at this age only being 5lbs below his best. Similarly Kauto has declined by more than a stone imo since his 09 win. So while it was an amazing spectacle, the handicapper has not rated it above any of the last three renewals. I think all the ratings are a couple of pounds too high
I'd go 180, 175, 171 for the first three home. Essentially Denman from 08 and Kauto from 09 are better winners of the gold cup. But remember long run is only 6. |
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Congratulations on achieving a record!
Usually the 'This is / was the Worst Gold Cup Ever' thread is started at around 3.31 on Festival Friday. In particularly vintage years, like the first cuckoo, seasoned 'twitchers' have spotted the thread as early as mid-January. For the thread to appear 6 days after the event represents a high-water mark for the forum's maturity and I commend yu all for this. Now: 'Hurricane Fly - What A Cnut!' |
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I think the best horses in the rsa were unplaced, time for rupert and quel esprit. I also don't think it's a particularly good renewal, yes it was competitive but it's got no star. Weapons Amnesty might be a threat but will he be the same horse and will he progress next season?
I backed long run, pretty heavily and i'm a fan and will be for the rest of his career. But 3/1 is short and it might be better waiting to back him for a king george gold cup double. There is no Denman in this rsa. Long Run will improve, I think he will retain his crown. |
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lol Roger. When Bino was pulled out I criid for about 2 hours then backed HF.
 Dwm, I dont buy the Denman was unsuited by the ground argument. He is by Presenting and generally they like it, and it was also LR first run on ground that quick where all his best form beforehand was on Soft or Heavy. |
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i agree it was nothing special... however as much as i like pandorama nothing frm this years GC will win next year, i think the novices look strong
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Yeah fair point Sintonian; Presenting had been popping up winners all week and im pretty sure the benefit of soft ground for Denman is it nulifies the turn of foot among his rivals, so I retract that.
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If any of the first three home in this years rsa best long run without him blundering I'll give up the game. They are never ever going to be 180 horses. Ever.
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Well i for one will be following the RSA horses very closely.
Competely disagree with that CV,think it was a good renewal and we have imo a good bunch of youngsters there. Long Run has just beaten 2 ageing horses past their prime,these new ones will pose a threat,no doubt in my mind. |
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Should not keep saying ever.
I keep saying about improving horses.They can all do that,Long Run at his age also could of course,but his background will not see significant improvement imo |
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Agree entirely with cvb... dont rate any of the first 3 home in the RSA that highly... never, ever be GC horses for me.
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whys that ccm??
saw nowt wrong at all with them myself |
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The RSA was dreadful imv. Only horse I can see giving Long Run a race, admittedly, at this very early stage is Weapon's Amnesty, provided he comes back as good as before
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I just dont think the form is that strong budd... I dont think the Irish have a particularly strong bunch of 3m chasers, particualrly the novices. For Time for Rupert to get as close as he did considering all of his issues was remarkable.
I still think he will be far and away the likeliset challenger if any novices are to make the step up. I just dont think the front 3 would be good enough to compete in a GC. |
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Thay will all have improved by next season i imagine and will be 8 yr olds next March.
Long Run has a year on them age wise,but has been chasing a lot longer. To say they will never ever be Gold Cup horses is completely dismissing any room for improvement and pretty much without substance. |
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Its only my opinion. More than possible I'll be proved wrong!
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Only gold cup winner the rsa has produced is Denman and he was and is a machine. Granted long run last year, but he was hyped up before he even came here and liked something special when hacking up as a 4yo in a grade 1.
If something from the rsa was good you'd know about it before he ran in it. Long Run is special, those first three home in the rsa are not. Only time for rupert and possibly at a stretch quel esprit deserve another chance to impress. But as a long run fan i'm not worried. |
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Time for Rupert could definitely be special imo. Some horse to get as close as he did.
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Only gold cup winner the rsa has produced is Denman
Eh?? |
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i didnt say anything about the first 3 ;) TFR and MDH, CC from the arkle- it will be interesting to see if the new 2m4 race will throw up GC contenders in the future. I liked noble prince but connections are station ryanair is early aim.
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Taking about recent years roger. Kicking King, Best Mate and WOA for example stuck to 2m as novices.
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Completely disagree with this thread. Kauto Star and Denman ran races that defied their years - just because they are 11yos and both placed, does not automatically make it a bad race. Remember these two have been doing the impossible throughout their careers.
On the point of the RSA, my immediate reaction would be that they are an ordinary bunch. Certainly don't jump out as being anything better than other runners in recent renewals. |
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Buddeliea - surely the fact that 4 horses finished within a length of each other with a horse that burst a blood vessel (and was palpably never going from the first fence) 5 lengths behind tells its own story re: the RSA?
they went flat out in that race also, would be surprised if the race hadnt left a mark on one or two of them |