Long Run still leaves a sour taste in the mouth.

improving 5yo, just turned 6 - handicap was over 2m 5f - not optimum distance for him, given his engine. Jumping improved with experience and schooling (still room for improvement there).

Not dissimilar to Big Bucks, Long Run's jumping has improved, Big Bucks did n't.

Would there have been a sour taste if Big Bucks had gone on to win Gold Cup in 2009 after unseating in 2008 Hennessy?

What utter rubbish. Horse clearly need every tyard of 3 miles and ran a blinder in the Paddy Power off top weight. Don't forget that a 5yo improves about 5 lb from November to March as well.

The horse won easily over 2 miles in April, so should really have been capable of winning off 153 over 2m5f

Seems he wasn't right that day though

yeah they lost on purpose to protect his mark for the king george handicap and gold cup handicap

lol Tucho Mark is f**ked now for next season

wonder what Phil will rate him after that? About 203?

203? What do you rate what a friend....

about 108, Fergie's questioned whether Smith is right ref ahead of Scottish National.

loool

Horse was not right in the Paddy Power. Mick Fitz said that 3 times in the ATR preview and I started a fooking thread on it. It's your own fault for not doing your homework. Horse ran a blinder in the RSA as a 5yo on his 7th start of the season.

A "sour taste"...?

Not me baby.

Just prior to last Christmas and the King George I spotted one boookie offered 50s (50s!) on a Long Run double of King George V Chase and Gold Cup. I'm assuming the same bookie felt Kauto was a shoe in to win the Kempton event. I laid Kauto and got on the double at 50s. I decided (just to keep up the interest you see in an event where Kauto had won the King George) to back Long Run at 20s for the Gold Cup. He duly won the re-arranged King George and his Gold Cup odds plummetted. I still went on to back him at 7s and 13/2. With the 50/1 backed I could lay substantially him in here and did small bets on Kauto + Denman. At the final fence all my 'hopes' were running in a line. I've taken home a gross figure just short of five figures less my Betfair lays.

Oops! An error. Just short of four [4] figures that shudda been.

(winnings gone to my head...)

Nice. 50/1 was madness.

I backed Kauto after he lost the King George and had set up in running lays almost all of which matched. I backed Long Run at 11/2 after I found out he was wrong in the Paddy Power.

I love when things work out.

I BACKED THE MINUTE CADOUDAL GOT THE HORN UP, FREE MONEY I SAID TO MYSELF

God there's some awful sh1t here

what a Friend is rated 160, so how can LR earn a 180 today?

I would guess that WAF ran a personal best with blinkers and better ground. He ran a stormer. The form is as solid as it gets.

If the form is not solid in the Gold Cup, there won't be any solid form

When Denman was in his pomp he beat What A Friend by about 25lbs.

I doubt WAF has suddemly improved 10lbs today. He is 8yo and has consistently been a 160 horse.

Its hard to rate todays higher than 172/173 on paper.

Both KS and Denman ratings wise are below their brilliant best and WAF highlights that

still a great race to watch.

Kauto and Denman are still 170's horses these days. So Long Run has to be close to 180. He broke the course record today after all.

Midnight Chase a rock solid yardstick rated 163 making What a Friend 171 along with Kauto, Denman 175 and winner 182+ Add a bit more for his tender age and fairly easy win and 185+ looks possible next year.

the french former trainer of long run said the horse is much better on very soft to heavy ground so he has run a stormer in conditions that didnt suit ,god knows what he will be like when he gets his optimum conditions ..

WAF hasn's suddenly improved imo. The course record is irrelevant and tells you more about how quick the ground is.

If you want to use the clock as a form of backing up the form then you could use the foxhunters which was about 7.5 seconds slower, which would be about 38lbs.  The winner of that race is likely to be something like a 135 horse at most. This would make the GC about a 173 timefigure.  That would also be a similar figure using WAF as a form guide.

Eeternal - Get over it...the horse is a machine - won grade 1 victories consistently in France at 4/5 year old...was 'flat' after a hard season running over a inadequate trip..They are not machines and they are allowed to improve as they grow and develop...surely well documented treatment with Yogi Breisner might have improved his performance too?