Big Bucks - The horse that cannot get beat in March

lol you lot love the banter. I am the main man on here now so get use to it ok. I got banned from Racing Post so came on here.

why on earth would they ban such an asset as yourself??

Defo another of kirk's other accounts.

Forum block when the amusement wanes.

Because I give a lot of banter and give people stick and they cannot take it. It's funny how I can take it off people but they can't take it back. It's silly really but I guess they are just babies!

Best quieten down a tad then,you may get another ban.

I don't mind getting banned, it means I done what I was meant to do, annoy people. As long as Big Bucks wins I will be very happy.

Okey doke.

By the way are you a bit short of things to do at the moment??

No, I just wanted a convi with someone about Big Bucks and I am getting one or two lol

Great horse at 3m hurdles,Gold Cup next season you think??

Yes, I am hoping he takes to the fences second time round. He certainly has the engine. I know it has taken Mr Nicholls time to find this horses trip, he was tried over 2 miles when he first come over from France. He will be at peak age still next season, I jsut hope his jumping holds up. He could be a huge Gold Cup contender if it does. I apologise for being silly with some comments earlier.

No worries,they are a good bunch on here,and very clued up,be good to stick with them.
Think it would be good to see BB over fences too,they owe the horse a 2nd chance i think,after all the grade1 hurdles he has won for them.

Yeah, I agree. I am glad he is going for another World Hurdle this year. I was a big fan of Baracouda and Inglis Drever but I honestly believe this horse is better than both of those. They are/were all brilliant but that's what I think. I will be back later. Take care.

Thanks Bigbucksanders - You are dead right on both of those statements. Floyd Mayweather is No.1, yes and that does include Pacman. Mayweather would hammer him if they met and I would have a big bet on him to do so. Big Bucks is a machine, I cant wait until March.

Mayweather do you know the bookiebasher?

No, who is he?

Just someone who posted a few words of wisdom on here last year around festival time thought you may be he in disguise

No, I only just started using Betfair when I heard about the Paul Nicholls column. Night everyone.

The irony of it all.....

Mayweather you think Master Minded can win his crown back from the champ Big Zeb?

bookies will gladly take the all in punters come march because the day will come when he gets beat[;)]

CVByrne - I am a huge Master Minded fans and also have huge respect for Big Zeb. He is a bery good horse, infact a top notcher in his own right. I believe Master Minded has more roar talent that Big Zeb and if he's 100% right on the day he will regain his crown. However, this is the one race I believe the ground will play a massive part in. I am convinced Master Minded wants cut in the ground. If the race is run on similar ground to last March I fear Master Minded will be beaten again but on the other hand, if the ground comes up soft I fancy him strongly. Master Minded uses barely any effort jumping fence to fence where I believe Barry G has to organise Big Zeb with care at each fence and alough the Irish horse has improved his jumping hugely over the last 12 months, Master Minded is certainly the quicker of the too. I am looking forward to this race. I have financial interest in both, I backed Master Minded quite big at 6/1, 5/1 and 5/2 NRMB while I have had a saver on Big Zeb at 9/2 and 4/1 NRMB. What do you think?

Revedesivola - Big Bucks will not get beat this season so you will be waiting a while yet ;-)

Excuse my interrupting,but i think you have covered yourself nicely,and will be major surprise if you dont make a profit.Hope its Big Zeb that does it for you,as i am also on him 4 NRNB.

Firstly Master Minded is certainly not quicker than Big Zeb, he's a galloper and needs the soft ground to stunt opponents speed. It's between the two but I think on good ground master minded won't be able to shake off zeb and his finishing speed will win the day. Ground plays a huge part in this.

Captain Cee Bee is some good ew value given he needs good ground so had no  chance at leopardstown.

I take it you fancy Kauto to regain his crown?

mayweather, is it out of the question that he gets an injury on the gallops? or that he picks up an injury during the race? he might be the best world hurdler for a good while but i dont consider him to be injury immune

I bet antepost quite a lot and do ok from it. I stuck with Master Minded at the beginning of the season for several reasons: He is still young and I didn't want to give up on him after one bad race, I was also hoping the breathing operation would work and that I think slower ground is the key to him.

I like Big Zeb alot too, he actually got me out of the s**t winning last year as I had over £200 on Master Minded at odds against. I had £15 E/W Big Zeb at 10/1 with Tote which worked out a great saver.

I really do appreciate the NRMB concession with Ladbrokes. I know the prices are a little shorter but it's worth it if you like having bets tied up knowing you will get a run or your money back if not.

I have both Zeb and MM done nrnb with Lads. Rare I'm this confident  a race is between two horses.

The Queen Mother Champion Chase is def only between Master Minded and Big Zeb. The other horses in the race do not have the gears for a 2 mile Championship. These two are very good horse, I believe Master Minded is different league to anything when at his best.

golden silver steadily improving... smashed the last aginst BZ when still going v well LTO. Its never that simple.

if only it was that simple!Don't discount Tataniano if it the ground is decent come march16th

Golden Silver stands no chance against zeb on  good ground at cheltenham.

I'm thinking back to the Azerty and Moscow days. It's between these two.

Tatatiano wants good ground and a flat track in my opinion

Golden Silver cannot beat Big Zeb unless Zeb falls.



It's a 2 horse race as far as i can see. The only other horse i could throw in the mix would be Woolcombe Folly but he would need to keep improving at the same speed as he has been to get near the 2 at the top of the market and i don't think Woolcombe rates any value now either

Tataniano is a very good horse on good ground but as matey boy says, he could well be a flat track horse. I was convinced he was going to win the Grand Annual last March but the groun went against him so he didn't run. However, I did hammer him at Aintree and he bolted up. He was wrong at Cheltenham earlier this season and didn't run his race. I believe it is a two horse race this year, Master Minded v Moscow Flyer on soft ground would be hell of a race. I was there in 2005 when Moscow Flyer won and it was amazing. What a race horse.

Moscow would beat Master minded any day of the week. Only the 08 champ chase performance could trouble moscow.

CV - I was a massive Moscow Flyer fan. He is up there with the best of all time in my opinion. However, people do not see that Master Minded actually produced two amazing performances, one of them being the 2008 Champion Chase and the other being at Ascot in Jan 2009. That day he was unbeatable aswell. I don't want to compare the two but they were both unbeatable in their prime.

Don't make me laugh, winning at 1/4 against a handicapper like petit robbin who made loads of mistakes that day too is not an amazing performance.

Master Minded had beaten the same rubbish for the least couple of years and when he faced a decent horse in zeb he got beat.

08 was a great performance, but he hasn't come close to that level ever again. Moscow was consistently brilliant for years.

I wouldnt be so quick to discount the captain.  He was never going on that ground lto.

Agreed and I've already mentioned him as good ew value.

I wasn't comparing Master Minded to Moscow Flyer. However, let me just say one thing, do horses generally win the Champion Chase at age 5? Master Minded did! He was awsome at Ascot that day, forget who was behind him, he ran his true race that day and won like a class act like he is. He could have won a further 20 lengths that day if the jockey wanted him to.

Captain Cee Bee has some very good form, ran very good races. However, in my opinion he is a horse hard to get right. I don't think he will work out to be as good as he should have been.

Like Katchit 5yo can win poor renewals of their races. Hindsight shows voy por ustedes was no longer a 2m chaser. His last victory over 2m was in 07.

We know know master minded beat very little that day.

Really? Really? Really? Really? Really?

We can say exactly the same about many horses in many races i.e. Kauto Star winning his first Gold Cup against a plodder in Exotic Dancer, Istabraq beating plodders in Theatreworld etc etc.

This is not to point, you can only beat what is in front of you and these class horses can only win against horses up against them, it's not they are not in the same league.


Kauto Star, Denman, Big Bucks, Master Minded, Moscow Flyer, Baracouda, Inglis Drever are all legends, not for jsut beating the horses they beat but just for winning race after race, that's all your can ask.

Istabraq and Kauto have put up many better performances  since those wins. You'd expect Master Minded to  improve from that race given he was only 5. When in my view he hasn't posted anything better than a 176 since.

Given Voy por never won a 2m chase since 2007 it's easy to assume that we read the form of that race wrong that day.

Master Minded is still only 7, please give him time. Wait until he lines up in next seasons King George VI Chase and then tell me he's not showing he's the real thing.

P.S. Oh yeah, for all your Arkle, See You Then fans..... ISTABRAQ is the greatest of all time!!!!

Floyd - a plodder...Exotic Dancer? At his peak, that plodder is better than most Gold Cup winners I've seen over the last three decades! A much under-rated chaser whose spirit was broken by the best chaser I've seen!

If Kauto had stuck to two miles that season Exotic Dancer would have won 7 races in a row including the Paddy Power, King George and Gold Cup. He'd be remembered as a legend in his own right. He was a very good animal, unlucky to be around the time he was.

lol

? That is actually a fact since he came 2nd to kauto twice and won his other races

Floyd - you were scornful of Exotic Dancer and now you've disappeared when confronted with the evidence - why?
CV - do you agree that he was better than most Gold Cup winners?

I dont,barely got 3m2f,and would not have beaten a fair few GC winners imo.He werent a plodder,but i have seen a lot better GC horses.

Buddeliea - I reckon he's achieved higher official ratings than at least a dozen over the last three decades.

Well whether he has or not,i have still seen a lot better.

Of course, I have to agree with you on that score but I think he's in with a squeak of being in the top 20 3m chasers of the last three decades. Just think for one minute, how we'd rate him if Kauto Star had stayed in France.....that puts it into perspective. Maybe we should start a thread about the best 3m chasers since 1980.

Very admirable horse he was,and ran consistently well up to 3m.But the Gold Cup was not really his cup of tea imo.Had Kauto not been in the race that would have been a poor race in 2007.He was then well beaten in the next two.

Well Exotic Dancer would have won a Gold Cup had he not met the greatest chaser of modern times. The consistency he has shown chasing home Kauto leaves me in no doubt he'd have been good enough to win a Gold Cup.

I think he'd have beaten Best Mate's 3rd Gold Cup and beaten War of Attrition, no hope with the horses after that. I'd disagree strongly with budd's comments that he barely got 3m2f since he was twice entered for the Grand National. People said Imperial Commander didn't stay 3m yet he had had a National Entry too. Bottom line is trainers actually know more about their horses than we do.

Exotic Dancer was a very good horse and he was rated correctly imv.

As cliched as it sounds, some champions can only demolish what's lined up against them - it's not their fault. However, horses such as Master Minded, Istabraq & See You Then will be forever remembered as supreme champions even though they never had to break sweat against mediocre opposition - Big Buck's is most definitely another one falling into that category.

CV,he crawled round at the back saving as much as possible when 2nd to kauto in 2007,he then got well beaten in the next 2 doing the same.I have seen plenty of GC horses in my time,and imo ED aint one of them.Would not imo have beaten Best Mate in a million years over 3m2f at Cheltenham.Its possible he could have won one of the poorer gold cups,but not a proper gold cup horse in my eyes.Took him out of his comfort zone imo.

bigbuckssanders - you know what you are talking about, these other people need a pair of specs.

Sorry bud he was 2nd and 3rd in Gold Cup's with only Kauto and Denman ahead of him. He was a 174 horse, he'd have beaten many Gold Cup winners.

well,he was 2nd in a poor one and well beaten in the other 2,thats fact.Neptune beat him in one of those and actually tried to win!!is he one of the best as well?
Ratings eh,lot to answer to they have.

not taking anything away from denman or kauto,but maybe these last few Gold cups are not as great as some seem to think?

buddeliea - are you for real? You looneytic! The last few Gold Cups have been strong. 2008 and 2009 very strong. You are a silly boy! Get some glasses you thicko!

note the question mark my friend,it werent a statement,just a question,and one worth pondering imo

eg,if you take Denman and Kauto from those races,what great horses are you left with??

Do you need more than one or two horses to have a strong race? it could be argued that you do.

The 2009 Gold Cup field is the strongest field I've ever seen. 5 Grade 1 winners and the Hennessy winner, with the winners of the previous 2 gold cups. Top field that.

you serious mate??
this is the field
exotic dancer,neptune collenges-those two not too bad i guess
then we have,my will,roll along,barbers shop,madison du berlais,albertas run,knowhere,cerium,air force one,star de mohaison and halcon generladais.none of that lot would i describe as strong GC horses.
strongest field you have ever seen??,
mind you having said that,thinking back,a lot of GCups have had similar types,so maybe it is.

Strongest Gold Cup I've seen, yes.

Neptune Collonges and Exotic Dancer, both Grade 1 winners.
Albertas Run - RSA winner.
Madison Du Burlais - Hennessy winner.
Kauto and Denman - 08 and 09 Gold Cup winners.

Pretty damn good field you have to admit.

i wonder will neptune get back on the straight and narrow?

We disagree mate,dont rate any of them over 3m2f at cheltenham,aside of course from the obvious 2.

Put up a better Gold Cup field so.

1981,1982,both stronger i think,rest since -you have a point mate.

That's almost 30 years ago. So it was basically the strongest Gold Cup field for a long long time and the winner was rather impressive too. Best steeplechasing performance I think I'll see in my lifetime anyway.

just had a good look back at previous gold cups,forgotten how poor some of them were,compared to a lot of them,2009 WAS a strong one,still aint happy with that being strong myself,oh well!!

Take out the big three from last year and that race was as bad as 05 and 07.

Not knocking the horse, but all of best mates wins were in truly awful awful awful fields. placed horses who had like 3/4 career wins. Beefy of course was a great horse but only over here.

What i find i dont like with the Gold Cup is the lack of competition in the race.i have just looked back to Arkles time,and their have been some good/great winners but some of the opposition pretty ordinary.No Comparism with the Churdle imo,yes their have been ordinary ones,but we have also had some fantastic races,the Night Nurse era obviously,and now we have the potential for another great era.Just dont happen with the Gold Cup.
Guess thats one of the reasons why the CH is my fav race,and the GC aint.

I'm not a huge fan of the Gold Cup either. Obviously Kauto and Denman have changed that a bit but it doesn't hold a candle to the Champion Hurdle. Easily the best race of they year for me. Love it and love analysing it. The Arkle too. Always loved that race.

I've never felt the 2009 Gold Cup was all it was cracked up to be, far too hyped for 'the rematch'. I would argue that the field that came together for Best Mate's first Gold Cup in 2002, was every bit as strong (far stronger imo in depth) but is not remembered because of the lack of hype surrounding it.

At the time of the race, the horses Best Mate beat had already won between them;

28 Grade 1s - 10 horses (9 won Gr1 over fences) - 20 chases, 6 hurdles, 2 NHF

38 Grade 2/3s - 26 chases, 12 hurdles.

Behind him were...

Gold Cup Winners - See More Business and Looks Like Trouble, also Marlbrough had won the replacement Grade1 at Sandown in 2001.

RSA Chase Winners - Lord Noelie, Florida Pearl and Looks Like Trouble

King George Winners - Florida Pearl and See More Business

Other Grade 1 winning chasers - Commanche Court, Alexander Banquet, Moscow Express, Bacchanal and Sackville.

Many of those horses were well past there sell by date EC.

But it could also be argued many of the 09 field weren't at their best. Denman's runs either side of that show it's unlikely he was anywhere near his best and Neptune Collonges picked up a bad injury in his race so it's anyones guess how much it affected him. I personally think there may have been a slight inflation in the ratings of all horses in recent years with all the hype that's around in the Kauto Star/Denman era.

Opinions on ratings are always going to be there.

All that really matters is it's clear Kauto Star is one of the finest chasers of all time, so it's understandable that he's achieved such a lofty rating based on his 09 Gold Cup and King George run.

We can pick holes in every race that's ever been run (bar the Champion Hurdles in the 70's)

i totally agree with ec. the handicapper has lost the plot in recent years. i think he gave exotic dancer a rating of 182 one year. he was a decent horse but far from top class imo. to rate him within a couple of pounds of moscow flyer and desert orchid is laughable.

every horse can get beaten i said the same last year, and the year before that,and the year before that,.....etc

i don't back odds on shots at the festival never have never will.

odds on shots at the festival quickest way to ruin stats back that up

great grey, don't be daft, Exotic Dancers highest rating was 174.

182 is Denmans highest rating, not Exotics.

only just noticed but some jammy git got a £10 matched @ 8 , he must be the shrewdest guy in the country

Interesting Andy Stewart has says he's probably going to stay over hurdles for the rest of his career, 50/50 to jump a fence in public again.

has said*

BIG BUCKS = 4 WORLD HURDLES SOON and 3 World Hurdles evern sooner hee hee

i have told EVERYONE THAT FOR LAST 2 SEASONS ??? were have you popped up from ??

Cammy a quick look at a few of his other posts and you'll are he'd a worthless windup merchant. Ignore him.

He was a plodder lol. Stop talking about other horses on my thread you clowns. I am the main man on this forum.

mayweather i hope your not refering to the great ingles drever as being a plodder , you wud be insulting the great horse , as am sure he has many a fan on this forum , as he was a triple champion in his own right , and was great for the national hunt game in his time , think he warens a bit more RESPECT from a new fool on the forum

No! I am not calling Inglis Drever a plodder, he was a great, great horse. A chamion I followed. I was referring to Exotic Dancer as a plodder. Oh yeah, I am not a fool, you are such a muppet.

P.S. Inglis Drever was a star but Big Bucks is the new star and will soon before looked as as the greatest staying hurdler of all time. He has the lot, wait until March! The first horse to win 3 World Hurdles in a row.

TELL me something i dont know MAYWEATHER ? ive been on here 8 years and my reputaTion is 2nd to none , until you prove urself you will be a FOOL in everyones EYES ON HERE ................

BIG BUCKS IS CRUISING ALONG!!!!! BIG BUCKS WINS HIS 3RD WORLD HURDLE!!! ;-)

aah,much better

THIS IS THE NO.1 STAYER IN THE BUSINESS. YOU ALL NEED TO REALISE THIS - MUPPETS!

seeing as hes odds on antepost and won his last 10 races, its probably not the most revolutionary idea ever

Fisting!!

Lovely.

this guy mayweather is a genius

Hello everybody, thank you for the nice comments. Big Bucks is a machine, I am surprised you muppets on here only realised this after I started telling you about him. Muppets!!!