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This afternoon this horses odds have come in quite a bit for the Triumph Hurdle. There were a few firms offering 16/1 and others going 14/1. That has all disappeared now and is generally available at 12's, 3-65 as low as 8/1 !!
He was pretty impressive the other day at Newbury, winning by 27 lengths, but wondered has this gone out on a tipping line ?
He was pretty impressive the other day at Newbury, winning by 27 lengths, but wondered has this gone out on a tipping line ?
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For the record, im on at 16's 
. Posted on Mystic Winds Triumph Hurdle thread.
Alan King said his next stop would be Chepstow, and that the horse had grown out of all recognition during the summer.
. Posted on Mystic Winds Triumph Hurdle thread.Alan King said his next stop would be Chepstow, and that the horse had grown out of all recognition during the summer.
Yea looked really nice at Newbury and the further he went the better which would suggest Cheltenham over 2 miles could really suit. It's hard getting a grip on the triumph because you don't know what's going to come out next so I won't be backing antepost but I will certainly be considering him.
Impossible to quantify the form and have a view on this race so early. To be honest, it's difficult enough on the Friday morning of Cheltenham. If the weather stays as it is, any form in the bag will be priceless.
Yeah see what you saying. Tbh, I just liked his performance. Whether or not the form will work out I have no idea, but it left a good impression on me and he wasn't stopping at the finish.
You're in good company as Steve Mellish recommends taking the ante post price in the RFO today and he's not the worst judge.
cheers Booster.
He is one of my Favs on RUK, and I remember him being particularly sweet on Menorah for the Supreme last season.
He is one of my Favs on RUK, and I remember him being particularly sweet on Menorah for the Supreme last season.
sint
When I watched the race initially, I thought "silly McCoy thinks he's on easily the best horse and goes too fast expecting them all to fold tamely and he can saunter up the straight". But when I stuck a stopwatch on the horses, SP has not stopped, nor really gone any slower at any time in the race.
If they were put in the race together level at the first hurdle, there would have been less than a length between them all the way around up to the second last when SN would have (and actually did) pull clear by 30+ lengths. Now the fact that SN's pace from the first to the second hurdle (which is a fair distance) was quicker that D, suggests that if the leader has gone too fast, then so has SN.
Not very clear explanation, but it means it was no fluke. Funny, if SN wasn't in the race, everyone would be charging on the PN horse (or strengthening their interest in one of his others) for the Triumph..
But what he actually achieved is less clear. What I like to do is put them in another competitive race run on the same day (or same meeting), which is truly run and has a "proper" form look to it, e.g the Tocca Ferro race (and in the case of Sam Winner I have compared his form with Menorah the following day, making a going adjustment if relevant).
This is not ideal as they are not actually racing together, but it shows at least where they would have finished: and with both 3yo winning easily any amount of plusses could be added.
Anyway, to put numbers on it, I have SN in the mid 130s (taking into account the WFA allowance) and SM 10-15lb better. To be honest, I had expected Smad to return a higher figure, but hey, it's only a number.
When I watched the race initially, I thought "silly McCoy thinks he's on easily the best horse and goes too fast expecting them all to fold tamely and he can saunter up the straight". But when I stuck a stopwatch on the horses, SP has not stopped, nor really gone any slower at any time in the race.
If they were put in the race together level at the first hurdle, there would have been less than a length between them all the way around up to the second last when SN would have (and actually did) pull clear by 30+ lengths. Now the fact that SN's pace from the first to the second hurdle (which is a fair distance) was quicker that D, suggests that if the leader has gone too fast, then so has SN.
Not very clear explanation, but it means it was no fluke. Funny, if SN wasn't in the race, everyone would be charging on the PN horse (or strengthening their interest in one of his others) for the Triumph..
But what he actually achieved is less clear. What I like to do is put them in another competitive race run on the same day (or same meeting), which is truly run and has a "proper" form look to it, e.g the Tocca Ferro race (and in the case of Sam Winner I have compared his form with Menorah the following day, making a going adjustment if relevant).
This is not ideal as they are not actually racing together, but it shows at least where they would have finished: and with both 3yo winning easily any amount of plusses could be added.
Anyway, to put numbers on it, I have SN in the mid 130s (taking into account the WFA allowance) and SM 10-15lb better. To be honest, I had expected Smad to return a higher figure, but hey, it's only a number.
Ok cheers The Sawyer. It certainly did not look a fluke when I was watching it either. His stamina kicked in at somepoint and he looked better and better as he was clearing away.
He now needs to be tested in better company, as you say it's hard to tell just what his performace meant, and is likely to head to Chepstow on 27th Dec. I think that is where they sent Franchoek.
IF he did prove good enough for the Triumph, I wouldn;t be surpsied to see him get outpaced and then finish with a late rattle. He reminds me a bit of Medermit. They are both Greys, too!
He now needs to be tested in better company, as you say it's hard to tell just what his performace meant, and is likely to head to Chepstow on 27th Dec. I think that is where they sent Franchoek.
IF he did prove good enough for the Triumph, I wouldn;t be surpsied to see him get outpaced and then finish with a late rattle. He reminds me a bit of Medermit. They are both Greys, too!
In you last paragraph you refer to SN .. do you mean Dolatulo ..
No sorry Sint, meant SMad Place (SN = Smad Place and SM = Sam Winner) I am a donut.
To attempt to clarify, I have Smad Place in the mid 130s and Sam Winner anything between 10 and 15lbs better. But as I said they are only numbers (and poorly depicted initials!!!!!!) and hence the "....expected Smad to have a higher figure" Thought it might have been nearer Sam Winners.
To attempt to clarify, I have Smad Place in the mid 130s and Sam Winner anything between 10 and 15lbs better. But as I said they are only numbers (and poorly depicted initials!!!!!!) and hence the "....expected Smad to have a higher figure" Thought it might have been nearer Sam Winners.
Interesting stuff the sawyer, when you say you take WFA into account, you mean the adjusted rating is still only 130s? Seems very low to me! Time will tell...interesting when you compare him to the henderson winner in the last on the same day, looks a real tool to me. The hcper has dolatulo on 137 today which if he took the newb run literally would leave smad place on something like 154. Bit miffed i didnt try and take any 16s, i did hear that price was offered after the race but didn't look into it properly till sunday night and assumed it had gone by then.
dan
Yes I am saying if he ran in the TF race the previous day and performed the same way as he did on Saturday, he would have been around 20 lengths behind TF. If you give TF a 140, SP gets a WFA adjusted 135 ish.
Although KC looked very impressive in the last, it was by far the slowest of the 2m hurdle races run over the three days - reminds me of Belvano last year in that respect. So I would need to see KC again before considering him a top novice contender, but am happy to cross off the others behind in that race.
Yes I am saying if he ran in the TF race the previous day and performed the same way as he did on Saturday, he would have been around 20 lengths behind TF. If you give TF a 140, SP gets a WFA adjusted 135 ish.
Although KC looked very impressive in the last, it was by far the slowest of the 2m hurdle races run over the three days - reminds me of Belvano last year in that respect. So I would need to see KC again before considering him a top novice contender, but am happy to cross off the others behind in that race.
SMAD PLACE, as short as 8-1 second favourite for the JCB Triumph Hurdle at the Cheltenham Festival, is set to head to Newbury on Wednesday for his next start.
Trainer Alan King had intended to run him on Chepstow's Welsh National card on Monday but with that meeting falling victimto the weather, Smad Place will now return to Newury, where he won impressively last month, for the Happy Birthday Laura Jones Juvenile Hurdle.
"Smad Place is a fine young prospect and is already among the favourites for the Triumph Hurdle," King said. "I would describe him as being more like Franchoek, who was strong but not speedy like Penzance, for example. He is notthe flashiest of work horses but he's been ticking away well.
"The postponement [of Chepstow] meant I was able to get another school or two into him, and, if all goes well, he would then take in the big juvenile hurdle trial at Cheltenham at the end of next month."
Trainer Alan King had intended to run him on Chepstow's Welsh National card on Monday but with that meeting falling victimto the weather, Smad Place will now return to Newury, where he won impressively last month, for the Happy Birthday Laura Jones Juvenile Hurdle.
"Smad Place is a fine young prospect and is already among the favourites for the Triumph Hurdle," King said. "I would describe him as being more like Franchoek, who was strong but not speedy like Penzance, for example. He is notthe flashiest of work horses but he's been ticking away well.
"The postponement [of Chepstow] meant I was able to get another school or two into him, and, if all goes well, he would then take in the big juvenile hurdle trial at Cheltenham at the end of next month."
Just checked the market here and he appears to be a Non-Runner. Hope all is OK.
Not yet. Nothing reported on trainers website either. Hopefully something minor.
King is a bit of a master in the Triumph. He is honest too. I got the big Katchit wins and he said Walkon was faster, so when Zaynar beat Walkon before the Triumph I got the forecast. Not being smart, I usually lose. But when King says his horse is like Francheok, I can't help thinking each way at best. But perhaps my thinking is coloured by Francheok's subsequent demise as a racehorse. He was a really good novice.
Smad Place a possible for Chepstow
Smad Place, an 11-hour withdrawal from Newbury last Wednesday, may try and consolitate his Triumph Hurdle claims in the Finale Junior Hurdle at Chepstow's rescheduled Welsh Grand National meeting on Saturday.
Explaining Smad Place's asbence from Newbury, where he had been so impressive at the previous fixture, Alan said:"I was just not happy with his scope on the morning so we took him out, It was nothing major, but you can't take any chances. We'll have him scoped again this week, and, depending on how he shapes up over the next few days, he could go to Chepstow, though it is not certain."
Smad Place, an 11-hour withdrawal from Newbury last Wednesday, may try and consolitate his Triumph Hurdle claims in the Finale Junior Hurdle at Chepstow's rescheduled Welsh Grand National meeting on Saturday.
Explaining Smad Place's asbence from Newbury, where he had been so impressive at the previous fixture, Alan said:"I was just not happy with his scope on the morning so we took him out, It was nothing major, but you can't take any chances. We'll have him scoped again this week, and, depending on how he shapes up over the next few days, he could go to Chepstow, though it is not certain."
By: This user is online. sintonian
Date Joined: 21 Sep 04 Add contact | Send message When: 09 Jan 11 15:25 The winner did it well, though, and deserved it. But if the form is turned around at somestage i'd not be surprised.
By: This user is online. sintonian
Date Joined: 21 Sep 04 Add contact | Send message When: 09 Jan 11 15:16 It was only Smads second run over hurdles, and he has just placed in a Grade 1.The others horse around him have more experience.
He was the first of the bridle yesterday but stayed on, and if there was one horse most unsuited by the slow early pace, it was him,imo.
If you watch his Newbury win, he gets better and better the further he goes. The horse is more stamina laden, than speed, which is why King compared him to Franchoek, as opposed to his more speedier previous Triumph winners.
A fast run race, and uphill finish will be right up his street at Cheltenham. I considered going in again yesterday, but do wonder if there maybe one or two others with a touch of class come March that will beat him, so refrained.
I am far from downcast though and still happy with my bet at this stage. I expect Alan King will say something similar.
Date Joined: 21 Sep 04 Add contact | Send message When: 09 Jan 11 15:25 The winner did it well, though, and deserved it. But if the form is turned around at somestage i'd not be surprised.
By: This user is online. sintonian
Date Joined: 21 Sep 04 Add contact | Send message When: 09 Jan 11 15:16 It was only Smads second run over hurdles, and he has just placed in a Grade 1.The others horse around him have more experience.
He was the first of the bridle yesterday but stayed on, and if there was one horse most unsuited by the slow early pace, it was him,imo.
If you watch his Newbury win, he gets better and better the further he goes. The horse is more stamina laden, than speed, which is why King compared him to Franchoek, as opposed to his more speedier previous Triumph winners.
A fast run race, and uphill finish will be right up his street at Cheltenham. I considered going in again yesterday, but do wonder if there maybe one or two others with a touch of class come March that will beat him, so refrained.
I am far from downcast though and still happy with my bet at this stage. I expect Alan King will say something similar.
Smad Place pleased Alan King with his third place behind the impressive Marsh Warbler in the Finale Juvenile Hurdle at Chepstow.
A surprise winner at Newbury on his debut for the yard when he beat Paul Nicholls' 1-4 favourite Dolatulo by 27 lengths, he finished in front of previous Triumph Hurdle favourite Sam Winner in Wales.
"The race was not run to suit Smad Place - they went slow and then sprinted and he got caught flat-footed," said King.
"However, he was staying on really well at the end, which was very encouraging.
"Obviously I was pleased when we turned over a hotpot of Paul Nicholls' at Newbury but while I would not say that we were flattered, there were inevitable questions raised about the value of the form.
"Though he has not followed up, he has certainly run well enough to suggest that Newbury was no one-off.
"It was a very solid run and he is a real staying novice who enjoys the mud," he told www.alankingracing.co.uk.
A surprise winner at Newbury on his debut for the yard when he beat Paul Nicholls' 1-4 favourite Dolatulo by 27 lengths, he finished in front of previous Triumph Hurdle favourite Sam Winner in Wales.
"The race was not run to suit Smad Place - they went slow and then sprinted and he got caught flat-footed," said King.
"However, he was staying on really well at the end, which was very encouraging.
"Obviously I was pleased when we turned over a hotpot of Paul Nicholls' at Newbury but while I would not say that we were flattered, there were inevitable questions raised about the value of the form.
"Though he has not followed up, he has certainly run well enough to suggest that Newbury was no one-off.
"It was a very solid run and he is a real staying novice who enjoys the mud," he told www.alankingracing.co.uk.
i expect the horse to run on trials day at chelt.
totally agree that saturdays race wasnt run to suit and he therefore hasnt had a hard race.
not had a bet in the triumph yet but theres worse 16/1 shots about
totally agree that saturdays race wasnt run to suit and he therefore hasnt had a hard race.
not had a bet in the triumph yet but theres worse 16/1 shots about
A likeable run today. imo.
Hoping he can grab a place in March. Chelts will suit well and he is lightly raced compared to some of the others.
Hoping he can grab a place in March. Chelts will suit well and he is lightly raced compared to some of the others.
Alan King was delighted to get a winning run into Smad Place at Wincanton on Saturday ahead of the JCB Triumph Hurdle at Cheltenham next month.
Smad Place had been under the weather in January but had been pleasing his trainer enough recently to be handed a golden opportunity at the Somerset track which he took as a 1-4 shot should.
"It hadn't told us a lot except of his well being," said King.
"We've had a few health issues with him but we've been happy with him before Wincanton. He had a nice gallop round and has done it well. He'll go to the Triumph."
Cheltenham is also Bensalem's target despite his defeat by Cross Kennon over hurdles on heavy ground at Haydock on Saturday.
However, he is set to revert to fences in the Festival Handicap Chase, a race he fell in two out in 2010 when holding every chance.
"He got outstayed at Haydock. I think that second run back will just put him right and he'd be pretty certain to go for the three-mile handicap chase at Cheltenham," added the Barbury Castle handler.
Smad Place had been under the weather in January but had been pleasing his trainer enough recently to be handed a golden opportunity at the Somerset track which he took as a 1-4 shot should.
"It hadn't told us a lot except of his well being," said King.
"We've had a few health issues with him but we've been happy with him before Wincanton. He had a nice gallop round and has done it well. He'll go to the Triumph."
Cheltenham is also Bensalem's target despite his defeat by Cross Kennon over hurdles on heavy ground at Haydock on Saturday.
However, he is set to revert to fences in the Festival Handicap Chase, a race he fell in two out in 2010 when holding every chance.
"He got outstayed at Haydock. I think that second run back will just put him right and he'd be pretty certain to go for the three-mile handicap chase at Cheltenham," added the Barbury Castle handler.
cheers mate, fingers crossed, the drop of rain will help him
I'd be encouraged that King got three of his juveniles who didnt look to be well handicapped into the first five of the Fred Winter, surely that implies his hand is quite strong.
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