Cheltenham Festival
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Nothing wrong with that decent horses behind him. Good stuff Kauto.
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Replies: 46
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i hope nicholls says he would have needed that
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hope he keeps him for boxing day!
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Typical 1st time out performance by him class got him out of trouble, different beast next time out just hope it's not the Hennessy can't see him winning that.
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^^^ agree 100% up there with his best 1st time out performance.
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Certainly talking up the Hennessy afterwards....would rather he put him away for the King George.
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Crazy if they go Hennessy not a big horse to concede chunks of weight over an extra 2 furlongs. Imperial Commander would have beaten him there he struggled a bit.
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Considering the tacky ground today, Kauto did v well. Please not the Hennessey. Clive seems to be obsessed with his memories of Arkle. Kauto is a different horse altogether, a speed one. Fans just want to see him get a 5th KG. Don't screw things up.
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Correct asterisk1 a speed horse not weight conceding one and especially over further than 3 miles.
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Especially not when he can secure 5 KG wins on Boxing Day....pure greed if they run at Newbury.
Horse owes them nothing...give him every chance for Kempton. |
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Imperial Commander would have beaten him there he struggled a bit.
Since when does IC win anywhere other than Cheltenham? |
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It was a very good performance and anyone who likes the horse can't be anything other than thrilled with that. Sizing Europe and China Rock were on their 2nd seasonal appearance remember.
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3132 Joined: 07 May 10
Replies: 867 06 Nov 10 15:56 Especially not when he can secure 5 KG wins on Boxing Day....pure greed if they run at Newbury. Horse owes them nothing...give him every chance for Kempton. Of course it's not pure greed. Clive Smith is considering what racing lovers want to see....the great Kauto Star trying to stick it to the best handicappers around (in what might be his final season). He's not short of a few pennies, so why would he be motivated by greed? |
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That's true there's no way greed comes in to this. I don't think they will send him and they're just enjoying the attention.
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AT, Imperial Commander won at Haydock last year though the judge gave it to Kauto. After disrespecting IC after last year's betfair I could see today why Nicholls ducked him this year.
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China Rock's third appearance this season, first defeat. He seems an improving horse. They seemed to go fairly easy most of the way so you would have say that the speed/class of Kauto saw him home from two decent horses. Overall a more than satisfactory start, not too hard a race, likely to improve for it, but will face better rivals as well
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Perfect round of jumping, he always needs his first run and if they were thinking about the Hennessy they'd have him less fit than he was for the betfair last year. Basically it was exactly what Nicholls wanted
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Every year we see an imperious Kauto Star at Kempton step up markedly on anything he's done prior to that on his prep run. I think this was a perfectly good first run of the season, against a couple of race fit rivals. He jumped well and it would have done him the world of good. I'd love to see him take on Denman et al at Newbury, then look forward to the Christmas showpiece, possibly for the final time, and a nap hand of victories.
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Kauto won the Betfair Chase last year. Even the owner of Imperial Commander said so.
The reason Kauto went to Down Royal is due to the fact it is an easier race to win than Haydock. Kauto needed to have a nice confidence boosting round of jumping and that's exactly what he got. |
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today quite informative, I thought - in the sense that there are clearly no mental scars after the fall in March and no signs of regression even though he's rising 11.
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Whilst Nicholls would have had him fit enough, I think he'd have left plenty to work on, and that race should have brought him along a treat.
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Sensational round of jumping by the greatest chaser I've seen. Can't wait for another demolition at Kempton.
Thought Sizing Europe ran really well. Needs better ground imo. |
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puzzled me tho why se was taken round the outside when trying the trip for the 1st time.kauto looked good but imho has no chance at all of beating ic at chelt.i feel the kg will be his swansong.
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Great return by Kauto, I also hope they go straight to KG rather than Hennessy, however if he were to win giving lumps of weight away then I think he would shut up the last of the doubters
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The fact there are doubters of this great horse after all he's done s a disgrace. No doubting he's the best since Arkle. We all know he is never at his best fto.
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think Best Mate was comfortably as good as Kauto
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Don't be daft. Best Mate was great but he ran in an era of handicappers and won what a King George & a Lexus to go with his three Gold Cups. It's not even a debate. Kauto has effortlessly topped Best Mate. He's won 14 Grade 1's for gods sake. Best Mate managed to be the best of his time, not one of the best of all time. What was Best Mate a 176 horse? Kauto was a 193.
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Kauto v Best Mate is a no-brainer
Kauto v Desert Orchid is a more intriguing debate, as we have had many times before The best staying chaser since Arkle? At worst, the second best imo. |
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Always difficult when weighing up horses of days gone by and I think heart often rules head. Dessie was my fav in the 80s loved Jodami, Best Mates Gold Cups were great and Kauto oozes class and makes it look easy. No matter who's the best its just great to see great horses.
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Whatever the merits of these horses I'm deligheted to have been in an era where I saw live, a triple Gold Cup winner (Best Mate) and a Triple Champion Hurdle Winner (Istabraq). Never saw Kauto win any of his King George races live.
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I was looking at videos of Dessie last night what a looker he was
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Dessie was always best showing his speed off levels in the King George over 3 miles of course, speed which was not great for a 2 miler he failed against the best at that trip and was not a great Championship horse at any trip outside the King George beaten by way inferior animals at staying trips at Cheltenham also. Weight conceding was his game and he was amazing in that respect. I suppose the question is do all-time greats have to go well both left and right handed or does this flaw in their make-up need to be ignored? Can you say a horse who couldnt produce the goods in Cheltenham Championship races is an all-time great levels horse ... no imo. An all-time great weight conceding/carrying horse yes the Best since Arkle no doubt.
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Let's be honest if he jumps at Kempton he wins. Even if he got edged out yesterday you'd be thrilled, but he won very well against two good horses. I like to oppose short pricers myself but he's special and to be honest i want to enjoy the spectacle for a change.
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TD_Gunner Joined: 15 Mar 09
Replies: 5039 06 Nov 10 20:30 Sensational round of jumping by the greatest chaser I've seen. Can't wait for another demolition at Kempton. Thought Sizing Europe ran really well. Needs better ground imo. Yes, when Kauto really gets it together, he is the most pleasing to the eye of all staying chasers I've seen. Beat two reasonably good horses reasonably comfortably yesterday. I thought Sizing Europe just about stayed and would agree that he is likely to come more into his own on better ground. Whether the better ground would help him jump a little quicker, I am not sure. But a sounder surface ought to let him use his speed better to make up ground between the fences. |
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@cricnut
No disrespect, old bean, BUT... that's an absolute pile of horse manure... Kauto is proven over a PILE of distances at Grade one level on a load of different grounds and tracks... Best Mate isn't even worth mentioning in the same breath... 14 Grade 1s with more to come 4 KG in a row, (soon to be 5) 3 Betfairs - could easily have been 4 2 Gold CUps 2 Tingle Creeks Rated 193 last year BM for ALL his solid performances, was rated 175 at his best, 2004 GC he beat Sir Rembrandt rated 155 2003 GC he beat Truckers Tavern rated 151 2002 GC he beat Comanche Court, rated 166 at best, over 2 miles behind Moscow flier... No disrespect to a very decent horse that BM was and cleverly campaigned and ridden, but he never beat much in the GCs and is 14 if not 20lbs behind Kauto... |
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Shomershet Man- nice post. You are right. As CBV says, 'Not even a debate.'
Although I'd pay good money to have seen one Gold Cup with them both on bridle with a circuit to go... |
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best mate was the best of a bad lot but what class horse has kauto star beaten? found out in 2 fast run gold cups by his stable mate denman. moscow flyer has been the best chaser for me in the last 10 years. beat top class 2 milers in azertyioup and well chief in their prime 5 weeks before his 11th birthday.
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Some incredibly ignorant posts on here ... really th1ck in fact I have never read anything so thick on here. Pleased you do antepost as it means there is money to be made. Kauto Star is extraordinarily brilliant over the King George trip. Away from there he is a great horse but has been beating nothing also. The handicapper has hiked every horse around him to justify the rises. There must be at least half a dozen horses after Arkle that I would take to beat Kauto Star in a truly run Gold Cup. Read the form for goodness sake Arkle II doesnt just beat Turnip Green 5 lengths into 3rd in a Gold Cup and his other victory a Denman off the back of a heart problem still comes second so bad was the opposition.
Best Mate, Denman, Dawn Run, Bregawn are 4 for starters I would back to beat Kauto over the Gold Cup course/trip. Dawn Run beat the likes of Wayward Lad and Silver Buck not feckin Turnip Green. Get real people. |
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Remember Best Mate was being crucified by the racing press at the time for not running in handicaps to achieve a 'proper rating'. The only horse sh1t on here is from the poster above who either walks around with horse sh1t in his ears or has been following racing for 2 years yet knows everything.
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kirk everyone knows as you lots and lots of money on Best Mate, you mention it many times. So it's understandable you love the him for it. You are hurt by the fact a horse like Kauto has come along so soon after Mate and eclipsed him. You want to protect his legacy and the hard truth is he has been overshadowed by Kauto Star.
You try to come up with ways of keeping something for Best Mate, the fact he could be better over the Gold Cup trip etc. But everyone really knows that Kauto's 2009 Gold Cup performance is to quote timeform here "the best performance in the race since Arkle". He jumped like a stag, travelled like a dream and absolutely powered up the hill and destroyed a very good Gold Cup field in the process. It was a simply breathtaking performance that leaves me and many other in no doubt who'd win between that Kauto and Best Mate (2nd win) in the Gold Cup had they met. It's one of the sad things about these forums that one must disparage anothers hero. I hate saying an ill word about Denman in every stupid Kauto Denman debate, I similarly dislike doing the same about any other great horse from the past. Just to state Kauto Stars magnificence once again His career Grade 1 record reads 1F-1111-1112-1U11-11F-1 He has 14 wins and 1 second from 15 completed Grade 1 chases. That only 2nd is a defeat to a 182 performance by Denman, himself an exceptional horse. Kauto Star is simply a phenomenon. The only tiny blip in his career at the end of the 2008 season came when they took his resilience, talent and versatility for granted and over raced him. It's sickening that people disparage the horse of a lifetime. |