Is he the greatest ever?????????

He's the best P4P of the last 25 years by a country mile. I was too young to remember other greats and it's always hard to compare generations as well so lets just enjoy him while he's here.

People who complain that he's dull and boring actually don't understand boxing fully. His movement and shot selection last night as breathtaking and like most opponents Alvarez just got frustrated at throwing and constantly missing. This is a guy who's considered to be in the top 5 fighters out there just now and he got made to look thoroughly average. Boxing is all about levels and Floyd has nobody who can get near his

It's all about styles making fights with these fantasy match-up's but I don't can anyone see who's style he'd fail to shutdown? Think he'd have caught Hearns flush too easily and dropped him, schooled Duran and out skilled Leonard. Most effective and unbeatable welterweight I've ever seen.

There was a passage last night when Canelo hunted him down into a corner and threw a cluster of punches and never landed a thing. Suddenly Floyd threw a left, right, left combo and all 3 found the mark and he was out of there. His skills are just incredible

PMSL PMSL PMSL!!

most boring welterweight in history.. and the biggest cherrypicker

You Mayweather nuthuggers are unreal!!

He's a modern-day great. Hes not in the class of those fighters u mentioned Duke

out-skilled Leonard he says?!!

outskilled leonard he wouldnt have fought one of them in that era even to begin with

Easily he is by far the best ever .The funny thing is he now bounced both opponents you said he would NEVER face round.Cotto and Canelo he took the mick out them both really .xxxx

fought cotto at 4 years too late when he knew he was washed up... and had to make a catchweight with canelo. two nothing victories

3 words will define his career, no matter what the fangirls say

DIDNT
FIGHT
PACQUAIO

^^^ EVERYONE OF MY MATES SAID THAT LAST NIGHT.. THATS WILL HE WILL BE REMEMBERED FOR.. QUITE SAD REALLY

in 50 years people will be talking about him as the best ever. that is what happens. fighters get glorified after they have retired. the fab 4 were no better than floyd imo and people will in time give floyd the massive credit he deserves. he'll never be beaten that's for sure.

Hope he fights Pacquiao at Welter & Golovkin at light middle. Not saying either will beat him but no other fights of interest. Who wants to see him fight Marquez again, Alexander, Bradley, Khan or Garcia?

The image of Pac that jumps out for me is him laying face down in his own slobber last time out.

You do realise Over that you go on and on about Floyd being a joke, but you're the posting equivalent of Uzzy Ahmed. You don't see it at all do you?

What was that promoter friend called again?

Broner for me or Martinez at 154

Absolute masterclass last night his defence is unreal. But why does Khans name keep getting mentioned as a potential next fight? Floyd wants to fight in England but him fighting Khan would be hilarious.

Khan at Wembley gets mentioned but it is just talk at the minute.

Khan has to get past Alexander & then the proposed dates for Floyd next year (May & Sept)wouldnt work for Wembley I don think.

Khan at Wembley gets mentioned but it is just talk at the minute.

Khan has to get past Alexander & then the proposed dates for Floyd next year (May & Sept)wouldnt work for Wembley I don think.

he still would duck pacman even now

Cotto was washed up ????????????????.

What a prized idiot you really are he looked washed up as did ya other mate Canelo.

What is your promoter friend called ?????

Are we talking pound for pound or at welter? Not pound for pound in my view. Top 10 for sure and possibly the best within recent memory with a peak Jones giving him a run for his money. Not being wise after the event because I reviewed the Trout fight last night and made my comments. I thought Canelo lost to Trout and no way did he ever have the speed to counter Mayweather.

Not for me. Excptional fighter and the best of this era by a mile, but the fact he retired and he did avoid the Welter class of 2008 cant be ignored.
Duran beats him and Leonard would beat him for me, and there will never be another Sugar Ray Robinson

sj spot on again...

so you now agree Floyd Mayweather is the best of this era by a mile

Can't state how highly I rate the man but to say he'd beat the best lightweight ever, the notion that Duran is just a high class slugger, Duran's defence was top class he'd take so much off the shots just by turning his head slightly or riding the shot.
He jumped upto Welterweight and beat the unbeatable Leonard he crushes unbeaten Davey Moore at light middle in 7 jumps up again to Middleweight to fight Hagler(would be like Floyd going upto fight a top class fully proven GGG(with no catchweight) and just goes down on points. Was leading going into the 14th round by the way. Hagler was coming off 7th straight KO'S and would be the first time he goes the distance as champ. Duran began as a lightweight and fought top class Middles, you'd argue the Middlewight resume alone of Duran is better than anything Floyd has fought and that s not knocking
It's too difficult to say if he beats the 4 simply cos they all fought each other. But I just cant have anyone being up there with Ray Robinson apart from great defence, he is Floyd but with much harder punching power and more ferocity

I guess for some guys talking about the 80's is ancient history and talk of Robinson is just beyond comprehension. Two things. Styles make fights and for me of those fighters Duran just had the perfect style to break Mayweather down. As for Robinson from memory I think he had something like three times more fights than Mayweather before he even tasted defeat and he fought a lot of good welters in that time.

In short if you love the game you owe it to yourself to study the greats from history. You may be surprised just how good some of them were at a time when a massive percentage of the western worlds young men boxed. Shiit. Even France produced decent fighters.

mayweather got lucky in his era.. very lucky and he milked it so for that i give him credit. as for him fighting duran

Brain cells is back. Have you changed your under wear yet?

Eeternaloptimist 16 Sep 13 00:07 Joined: 28 Jun 10 | Topic/replies: 19,965 | Blogger: Eeternaloptimist's blog
I guess for some guys talking about the 80's is ancient history and talk of Robinson is just beyond comprehension. Two things. Styles make fights and for me of those fighters Duran just had the perfect style to break Mayweather down. As for Robinson from memory I think he had something like three times more fights than Mayweather before he even tasted defeat and he fought a lot of good welters in that time.

great post mate. Think people believe Duran is a high rated slugger because of his demanour outside the ring. He knew every trick in the book and some inside. Great footspeed to close the distance, his ability to turn a fighter on the ropes is the best I've ever seen.
He was really special just a freak era with those. The era is that rich people rarely bring up one of my favourites THE RADAR Bentiez

That's exactly it sj. Plenty of fighters have the hand speed to trouble Mayweather but for me the crucial factor is the ability that Duran had to use his feet wisely and quickly.

There is always an argument being the greatest ever,but for a fighter to be on the top of his game with a perfect record and being judged just now as a great says he is a little bit special.he is making very good fighters look very ordinary

Yeah he could slip slide and counter fighters with as quick as Ray Leonard he was unreal.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zKtj1o41nQ

There was a programme on one of the ESPN channels a couple of years ago where Bert Sugar gave a rundown of his all-time greatest fighters. Sugar Ray Robinson was no. 1 and I don't think Mayweather even got a mention.

si

Imagine if Duran had smashed one of those body shots into Mayweather. Ouch.

He is the best, but hopefully pac n him get it on

Mayweather would of schooled Duran. An easy nights work. Sugar Ray Leonard would of been a good test but again Mayweather wins. Hagler v Mayweather - Mayweather wins. Hearns v Mayweather - Mayweather wins. See a theme happening here. It doesn't matter who you put in the ring with him he will make them look ordinary and that goes for all the past greats and im not some mayweather fanboy, i do think he dodged manny but also think he would of beaten manny

^ agreed

i always find it funny how old timers go on about how older fighters would have dominated floyd.

oh ffs sake I've heard it all now. Mayweather would have beaten a peak Hagler.

Big middleweight Hagler, I refrained from including him in my post because it seemed unfair comparing the two. Amazing some of the backlash for having an opinion, some of the responses gave the impression they were built on facts. Facts over a fictional fight [:crazy:

He makes good fighters look ordinary,the fabulous four were great fighters and definitely couldn't make them look ordinary.cant see him beaten a hagler,I think hearns would ko him as for Leonard Duran? What a very good business man,as he says ( builds them up and knocks them down)

Of course fictional match ups are all about opinions but lets approach this from a position of logic guys. Mayweather has always fought smaller guys because he's naturally a smaller guy himself. Bigger guys he compels to shed weight. Fair enough. He can call the shots. The closest he has ever come to fighting a genuine middleweight was when he fought De La Hoya who managed to win an alphabet version. Of course when Hoya met a real middle in Hopkins he was smashed and as good a middle as Bernard was he wasn't as murderous a puncher as Hagler and for most of his career at the weight he could have easily made light middle himself.

You can't defeat logic with blithe assertions about kryptonite or magic. Some leaps are feasible. Some just aren't. It's like it was feasible and indeed logical for Jones to take on a small limited heavy in Ruiz and beat him up. He would never have stepped in the ring with Lewis and if he did Lewis would have got to him. As would Hagler with Mayweather.

Don't forget in their day many of the weigh ins were on the day. Fighting at middle guys like Hagler and someone like Hearns could have easily weighed 175-180 weighing in the day before.

u want some 17 Sep 13 17:13 Joined: 12 Jan 09 | Topic/replies: 14,062 | Blogger: u want some's blog
Mayweather would of schooled Duran. An easy nights work. Sugar Ray Leonard would of been a good test but again Mayweather wins. Hagler v Mayweather - Mayweather wins. Hearns v Mayweather - Mayweather wins. See a theme happening here. It doesn't matter who you put in the ring with him he will make them look ordinary and that goes for all the past greats and im not some mayweather fanboy, i do think he dodged manny but also think he would of beaten manny

LOL. I put it to you mate that he clearly ducked Margarito Cotto Williams when they were at their best end of story. I really rate the man but he ducked these three make no mistake especially Cotto and Margarito. My favourite is him claiming(and there is video evidence of this) That Cotto didnt have a big enough fan base for him to fight him oh dear

It does matter who ducked who when assessing legacies. The fantastic four from the 80's partly got their reputations through fighting each other and other great fighters.

However the historical match up business is slightly different. For example, both sj and myself have given chapter and verse on why in our view Duran gets to Mayweather and beats him. You can't legitimately come back in such a debate and say Mayweather beats everybody because I say so.

How does Mayweather win that fight? How does he counter the foot speed  and movement of a fighter equally fast if not faster in that department? If Duran gets inside as we argue he will how does Mayweather keep him off? Duran will be throwing multiple combinations at the same time he's rolling away from Mayweather's own punches. We know at lightweight and welter he had a chin of stone but Duran has two bites at the cherry with Mayweather. If he catches him flush there could be trouble but like I said he was especially effective going to the body. That's where I think he breaks Mayweather.

In essence I posted before the fight that the image of Canelo was a mirage. He was never going to have the speed to match Mayweather. The Trout fight proved that. People are getting carried away. It's a natural reaction to the bullshiit and bluster of 2.5 brain cells but let's keep this in perspective.

LOL. I put it to you mate that he clearly ducked Margarito Cotto Williams when they were at their best end of story. I really rate the man but he ducked these three make no mistake especially Cotto and Margarito. My favourite is him claiming(and there is video evidence of this) That Cotto didnt have a big enough fan base for him to fight him oh dear


OH YES 

Tommy Hearns would be a nightmare opponent for Floyd, like he was for Duran and sugar Ray

He ducked pac at his peak also but pac also ducked him, I still think he would have beat pac but unfortunately it did not happen, it may still happen but prob no contest now

On what grounds could you say Hearns would KO Floyd. What makes you think that? Floyd has never even been knocked down. None of them would of KO'd Floyd because Floyd doesn't get knocked out, knocked down or beaten. Some of the comments on here are laughable and its the same sort of people that no doubt think Maradona is better than Messi. The lager louts like duran wouldn't stand a cat in hells chance

Notice a few putting up the Montreal Duran being able to turn Floyd over. Do you honestly think Floyd would be as undisciplined as the Montreal Leonard? Not a chance, and Ray still nearly done him at his own game. Out of all the great welters mentioned, Duran would surely be the easiest work?

I love the fact that ray "fought the wrong game" in montreal. Of course people forget and Ray is on tape saying it "we knew Duran would blow up in between fights so we wanted to get him in the ring quickly" Forget the scorecards as well Duran comfortably beat him and Ray knew it.

Proof's in the rematch match. Floyd's nowhere as open as Ray in Montreal, that's as close to fact as you can get in a fictional fight discussion.

Duran was nowhere near the same as Leonard himself said. If you're bringing up one match Castillo Floyd doesnt sit well

Ray fought the wrong fight mate, we interviewed him last year in the Golden Gloves, he said he'd got it wrong first time and I watched the fight again two weeks ago, he did for me. 

Regardless of the condition of the rematch Roberto, I'm not having the Montreal version gets at Floyd. Floyd's the master of flicking off body shots with his hips and tying up a good inside guy. Think the 2013 Floyd would slip and move all night and make Duran look pretty pedestrian. Just my opinion as I say though.

This is getting to the ridiculous,mayweather would never have fought hagler just as he still wouldn't fight pacman(I think he would beat him know). He would never fight hagler and wouldn't beat hagler.

Yeah thats what it s all about. Mine is the opposite I think Duran beats him

I don't know why people keep going on about Hagler?

great thread everybody stating how much of a ducker he is

Duke

This is why:

Mayweather would of schooled Duran. An easy nights work. Sugar Ray Leonard would of been a good test but again Mayweather wins. Hagler v Mayweather - Mayweather wins. Hearns v Mayweather - Mayweather wins. See a theme happening here. It doesn't matter who you put in the ring with him he will make them look ordinary and that goes for all the past greats

No brain cells. People are seeking to put Mayweather into context as an all time great fighter. Obviously you can't join in because your own knowledge begins and ends with the contents of your **** filled underwear at the mere mention of his name.

Haha, back in the hole. Mess.

Yeh I mean I don't understand the Hagler fight even being discussed Optimist. He was an out and out middleweight, pointless even for fantasy debate.

Exactly. Mayweather has done well given his frame to get to where he has. He isn't superman.

A prime Mosley would have finished Mayweather off.

i think athletes before this generation wouldn't fare to well against this generation due to the advances in training methods IMO. so it's possible but yet a pointless and subjective debate

lincthesinc 20 Sep 13 10:37 
A prime Mosley would have finished Mayweather off.

Floyd doesnt have any new age methods Razz. So thats rubbish. None of this nonsense Strength and conditioners

strange that almost every other sport has, maybe not much has changed but i'd find it hard to believe that boxers of today train exactly the same as fighters from a different generation, strength and conditioning has dramatically improved in sports as a whole over the last decade or 2.  not to mention the huge improvements in nutrition and diet that absolutely has an affect on performance. maybe some individual fighters train the same as always with the inclusion of better nutrition but absolutely not the majority or even close.

I think you're wrong razz, you can't reinvent the wheel.  eg. British running records from 30years ago still hold up today

Theres been improvements in some sports such as Football/Rugby with a stronger emphasis on nutriton/fitness but thats just professionalism which isn't applicable here.

I'd go further than Zazu. This whole improvement in nutrition, diet and training is to a large extent a red herring. Where there have been radical improvements in some sports they have largely arisen due to one of two factors with these being specific technical and participation advances and more controversially the improvement in juice, avoidance and the extension of the juice into all aspects of sport where money is a factor.

Split into two the technical and participation advances are easily explained. Certain events have leant themselves to improvements in technique. An obvious example of this is something like the Fosbury Flop in high jumping. There have been many others. Which is partly why we've seen continued advances in technique based sports like for example decathlon despite few athletes being as naturally talented as say Daley Thompson.

Participation advances sees records tumble. The wider the gene pool you draw from the more likely you are to see improvement. There were relatively few African long distance runners in the 70's. Now they dominate almost totally. If there had been advances across the board we should be seeing British marathon runners running quicker than they were then. They aren't. The best times came in the 70's-90's decades with current runners unable to get near those times.

The second aspect is the more interesting in some ways. The proliferation of the juice into all facets of money orientated sport is phenomenal. At one time the cold war and national prestige arising from competing political philosophies saw athletes as the guinea pigs for outrageous manipulations. Arguably our greatest ever runner is a mere footnote in history (Kathy Smallwood) because she sought to compete against these athletes who were doped up to the eyeballs. Anybody who wants to see what this was like at its worst should google a photo of someone like Kratochvilova in her prime. She had muscles on her muscles. In 15 years the world 400 metres running record dropped like a stone by over 3 seconds. Totally monstrous.

How does this apply to boxing? Juice like I say. There have been plenty of boxers from about the 90's onwards who saw the strength benefits and took advantage. Boxers are no more skilled than they were then. Arguably with the demise of true artisan trainers from the golden age there is a less high skill level measured across the board There are no great added benefits to nutrition. As long as any athlete has a balanced diet, keeps himself in shape in between fights and doesn't seek to drop too much weight in the run up to fights then the fad for this and that supplement is just that a fad.

The African distance runner analogy works in reverse. Back in the 30's and 40's particularly at the lower weights there were many more times the sheer numbers of competitive boxers and they were refining their skills more consistently both inside and outside the ring.

In conclusion there is often improvement in sport but it doesn't always happen. British athletes can't get within 3 seconds of Coe's 800 metres best and people marvel at Floyd's ability to avoid to avoid and ride punches when back in the day any trainer worth his salt could teach a skill based fighter such techniques to a proficient level pretty quickly.

The fact that you once thought Hatton was untouchable baffles me.

Mayweather is the best boxer Ive ever seen, but great fighters of years gone by would have hurt him at some staqe and made things extremely ugly.

Me?

I bet the farm on Mayweather in that fight. Hatton was no more a welter than I am a brain surgeon.

razz
razz 21 Sep 13 17:22 Joined: 27 Nov 10 | Topic/replies: 4,419 | Blogger: razz's blog
strange that almost every other sport has, maybe not much has changed but i'd find it hard to believe that boxers of today train exactly the same as fighters from a different generation, strength and conditioning has dramatically improved in sports as a whole over the last decade or 2.  not to mention the huge improvements in nutrition and diet that absolutely has an affect on performance. maybe some individual fighters train the same as always with the inclusion of better nutrition but absolutely not the majority or even close.


I had the pleasure of spending 5 hours with Manny STeward 3 years ago at the Hilton. He couldnt stand these conditioners and Dieticians.
It s all overhyped

still he would perform better with a really good diet,there's no doubting that. no matter how small. maybe it's overhyped for boxing, but most other sports have benefited tremendously from adv ances made in the last decade or 2

I think the lightweight Duran v Mayweather would be an even fight considering what a whirlwind he was and the amount of punches he threw.  Also Floyd would have to thrw far more punches than he's ever thrown to keep him off.  Also Tommy Hearns at welter would tower over him and surely be able to land the jab and surely be ahead after 6 rounds and maybe win on pts with the big right hand always being a threat.  If there's one mythical fight I'd love to watch it that would be the ultimate it would be Hagler v Trinidad at middle!  Similar to the Hearns fight  with Tito's extreme power but having better conditioning than Tommy.

It's all opinions but I don't give Tito a hope in hell. When they fought Hopkins could have made light middle and he was not only too good for Tito but too strong. Tito was a fine welter. A bit like Oscar. He couldn't take it up to middle at Hagler's level.

oscar

Is that Oscar who got whipped by the smaller no good scambooga Mayweather or another one?

no thats the oscar floyd fought when he was past his best and oscar still won. had the fight been made when it should have......oscar a real champion and ducked no one. the real pay per view king

Like Cotto was past his best at the age of 30??????unbeaten at 154 till money went boom.......I think Alvarez was past his best aswell over u plum.

You lost everyones respect when you couldn't raise a £500 provvy to bet with me now your a laughing stock on here.I do love bullying you on here you mess of a boy.

yeah you really do bully me on here cry myself to sleep

Serious question. Why do you always make excuses? Why can't you just accept Mayweather's greatness? Don't get me wrong I'm not a nut hugger. I'd ridicule anybody who sees him standing up to a prime Hagler but come on man let that hatred go.

You cried for Canelo for years and then when Mayweather beat him like a naughty boy who had stolen sweets you still couldn't respect the man. You have a mental illness.