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Big Black Cat
04 Dec 21 17:09
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Date Joined: 04 Oct 02
| Topic/replies: 965 | Blogger: Big Black Cat's blog
Some huge prices paid last week.

As a novice to the sales, I was a bit surprised.

Are buyers seeing pedigrees and buying them rather than waiting for the yearling sales? Is it because there seems to be a lot of money around to buy horses?

Or something completely different?
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Report potentialmillionaire December 5, 2021 5:12 PM GMT
BBC

I think if folks are into expensive horses and largely in the game for a lengthy period of time then I think they always have an eye on an opportunity to find a nice horse.
After all they are never easy to acquire and an extra 10 months wait for a racing prospect is no biggie and even less of a deal if one is thinking stud prospect.
I don’t know how much of the foal market is driven by pinhooking but pinhookers  are obviously prepared to pay up to the level of their perception of the yearling market, past or future you take your pick.

So the ‘difference’ in the foal and yearling market is that of 10 months really. Don’t necessarily expect them to be poles apart.
Report sageform December 6, 2021 1:17 PM GMT
Plenty of foals do double or treble in price when resold as yearlings but no doubt some fall by the wayside.
Report Big Black Cat December 7, 2021 11:16 PM GMT
Thanks both. Can see the point of buying a good horse when you can. Can also see the pinhookers out in force, was involved in a little potential syndicate myself, but everything half decet way out of budget.
Report potentialmillionaire December 8, 2021 3:04 PM GMT
I am going to be really rude now BBC and correct you!
I shall replace your ‘decent’ with an  ‘obvious’.

There were plenty of nice foals that went through that didn’t make their money and it wasn’t a sale that was universally strong as so often has been depicted.

I know one very big vendor who felt their Wednesday horses were outsold by their Saturday horses as people began to panic.

The Irish weren’t as strong as usual with exchange rate and Brexit Hassle adding to a stay at home vibe that worked in Goffs favour.

It will always be tricky if ‘commercial’ speed / colts only/ 1st season sires etc. are chased. Commercial is just that and fashion has never represented value in any walk of life. I hope your syndicate didn’t get too hung up with the same thing as everyone else!
Report truehoncho December 8, 2021 5:05 PM GMT
Thats right PotM. I tried to buy a few but they were the 'obvious' ones and went above what I thought was any reasonable value. Anything a little off piste was gong quite cheap. If I could have afforded to not worry about reselling next year I could have bought quite well I think. I thought the Land Force's were quite nice.
Report Big Black Cat December 11, 2021 4:37 PM GMT
Ha ha PM. Unfortunately we had a very small budget so anything obvious was way out of our reach unfortunately.

There were 3 or 4 we looked unsold in our budget range but they had conformation issues, or other issues.

We need a bigger budget. Same old story.
Report Big Black Cat December 11, 2021 4:37 PM GMT
Ha ha PM. Unfortunately we had a very small budget so anything obvious was way out of our reach unfortunately.

There were 3 or 4 we looked unsold in our budget range but they had conformation issues, or other issues.

We need a bigger budget. Same old story.
Report truehoncho December 13, 2021 7:58 PM GMT
No, you don't need a bigger budget. Just because someone is paying more for them, it doesn't make them worth it.
Report sageform December 14, 2021 5:23 PM GMT
If the average price goes up 20% and you stick to your maximum price then on average you will get an inferior horse from the year before. Of course there will be bargains in there but even they will cost a bit more.
Report truehoncho December 14, 2021 8:18 PM GMT
I think you have to value the foal as a yearling when you buy it (if you are looking to sell). Then you have to work out what you want to buy it for. It's ok saying they are worth more but we need a year to find that out. You may be right Sageform, but personally I think they were at a premium this year.
Report Formtwist December 15, 2021 8:03 AM GMT
To pinhole a single foal is risky, best strategy spread the risk across several. Maybe invest in something like the Jamie Railton ones which have a good record and once had a tax saving angle too, might still. I thought it a good sale as a vendor, lot of new faces and my non-commercially bred darlings fetched decent profits.
Report truehoncho December 16, 2021 8:54 PM GMT
I agree FT. It was a good sale. Regardless whether you spread your risk, your assessment of value is still the key element. I'm not as bullish as many about the economy next year and paying premiums this year may well be an error. I'm pleased you did well Ft as I hope all vendors on here did.
Report sageform December 17, 2021 5:15 PM GMT
No longer in the owning or breeding game but I am a life long student of pedigrees so enjoy watching. I get your point truehoncho but it must be hard to judge value unless you see a lot of horses sold every year and also know the fashionable pedigrees. As a fan of Andrew Balding and this year his 2yos, it is interesting to look at the pedigrees that he buys as yearlings. Not often by the most expensive sires unless they are for an owner who tells him which to buy or homebred which many of them are.
Report jim smith January 4, 2022 7:55 PM GMT
I see the key skill at the foal sale as being the ability to call the physical side right. You also have to know your vendors well.
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