Bloodstock & Breeding
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26 Jul 21
13:56
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Date Joined:
11 Mar 02
Just been looking on their website and for under £200 you get involved with an extensive string and breeding programme. Then you realise there are around 8000 members entitled to a share of the prize money won in your 12 month membership period.
Who actually owns all the horses then and although it seems at face value great value are you just funding someone's lavish dreams?
When Marsha was sold for example were those proceeds split among the members at the time?
Who actually owns all the horses then and although it seems at face value great value are you just funding someone's lavish dreams?
When Marsha was sold for example were those proceeds split among the members at the time?
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Replies: 16
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Somerset, to keep people answering your requests it might help to acknowledge them when they do.
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Sorry you've lost me.
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The horses are ownned by the Club. As was Marsha. The members got none of the proceeds from the sale. The Club upgraded some covers, but they would wouldn't they? The also bought an equine facility (Equiprep).
Members are entitled to a share of prizemoney, but nothing else, its NOT ownership of the bloodstock. They covered Marlinka (dam of Marsha) with Frankel. The colt was subsequently sold to Juddmonte as a yearling privately (just under 1m guineas). They copped for all of that too. They do have an offshoot called Elite syndicates-very similar model to the Owners Group (same company own ERC and OG) so that is ownership (about 0.033% or so per share). |
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if it costs roughly between 20-25k to keep ONE horse in training per year, then what do you think you're going to get for £200 per annum for an entire string of horses. stay well clear and, as the old saying goes, you get what you pay for!
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Thank you for your explanation B B C, a very detailed summing up and it was kind of you to take the time to answer the request for information.
I don’t think people need to steer clear necessarily KeMoH, if you consider the 200 quid well spent for the information and interest it provides then go for it. I haven’t got a clue how much you have to pay for a football ticket, but I know I wouldn’t consider that good value! |
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In my view it will be run just like every other "legal" financial investment product we have experienced since the "big bang". Several top rankers will be legally syphoning off expenses and commission, maybe even salary, and probably on a very lucrative scale, whilst the masses funding the endeavour are constantly led to believe they are getting value for money. These people may even award themselves bonuses! Are accounts produced? P+L sheets? Balance sheets? Is there an annual meeting of investors where they are briefed on the previous year's activities and the prospects for the coming year??
Why would a "Racing Club" sell off a hugely promising asset to a competitor rather than see it run in the club colours and possible even become as good at racing as its parents? And were all "members" consulted about it and allowed a vote on the proposal? Almost certainly not to my mind. Anyway, people can do what they want with and write off their own money if they choose - no matter where it goes and how it is used. |
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I think your point about selling is a good one Loyal. On the face of it a club is just that a club and exists for its members and attaining the goals those members aspire to. I suppose in a way it's a bit like an owner breeders dilemma if they get a nice filly. Do you keep and breed her or do you sell for a good price as you think the money may advance your breeding operation more effectively. It seems to me in this case Elite achieved neither.
In fairness they may have a long term plan with the money and I'm sure the members will have been informed what that is. At the end of the day the value of the membership can only be judged by those that take it up and they seem to have no problems getting members. |
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You get a magazine as well - don't forget that
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@ Big Black Cat: it wasn't so long ago that you were their choirboy endlessly bigging them up and trying to fascinate everyone on the annual matings. Glad you saw the light
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Have they got anything decent running at the moment?
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Still can't get my head round that the club own the horses, members of the club are only entitled to prize money won, not proceeds on disposal of the prized assets and then they apparently buy an "equine facility". Who owns that if it isn't the members?
If its a lease or something similar, it needs to be explained far better than it has been so far. Everybody's £200 funds a bigger more lavish dream for someone else from where I see it. |
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An exchange on this subject between myself and Big Black Cat from 2017 relating to the Marsha issue.
blackbarn10 Dec 17 00:12Joined: 02 Jan 05 | Big Black Cat - I am not, and have not yet said that you are a mug. Your mini investment is of course peanuts, but on the end of the line is someone taking peanuts from many tens of thousands of people. My questions are merely related to how a "thousands of peanuts business" handles a £6m cash injection into its business, given that it's rules may not have expected such an occurrence. The fact that said business is administered effectively by one man adds imo complexity and opportunity. Does this extra info help? Big Black Cat09 Dec 17 23:58Joined: 04 Oct 02 | Thanks Blackbarn. Its £100 quid a year. £2 a week. People on here that maybe doing their conkers every day are basically saying I'm a mug. Its a funny old world isn't it? blackbarn09 Dec 17 23:55Joined: 02 Jan 05 | Big Black Cat.......That's fine and dandy. I am pleased he is a nice bloke and I offer no evidence that he is anything other than that. The rest of your thread seems inconsequential since it offers the opinion that you do not care what happens to your investment, even if it disappears somewhere into the ether. I wish you well. Big Black Cat09 Dec 17 23:41Joined: 04 Oct 02 | Blackbarn-I don't really care who's in charge to be honest. I've met Tony once or twice and he's been perfectly affable and passionate about the club. There are no guarantees what will happen with the Marsha money. The only communication with members since it all happened was a quote from the Racing Manager about reviewing the covering of Marsha's dam this year, and something about it being used to reduce costs. Like I said on an earlier post. If Tony decides to trouser it all and buy a place in the Cayman Islands then that would upset a lot of members and I should think they would vote with their feet. My financial investment is so inconsequential that although I know about the structure of the company it doesn't bother me too much, cos I'm having fun and enjoying the involvement with the sport. |
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Cheers Blackburn. If I had been a member when Marsha was being sold, I can't say for certain I would've been as diplomatic as BBC was and fair play to him.
There is most definitely a bigger picture that definitely needs explaining to all current and future members for everyone's benefit. I'd gladly allow others to pay for my hobby but keep the prize money, while I build up a well stocked stud farm and facility to house them all. |
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For the record, I left the club after Marsha, when they spaffed their money on Equiprep and then sold their Frankel x Marlinka colt (Special Envoy). I thought it was pure greed, and they had always intimated they would keep him to race.
The club is a shadow of its former self IMHO,(3 winners from 35 runners on the flat) and the Owners Group model seems to have largely taken over. I have personally taken small ownership shares in around 10 flat horses not microshares) and am thoroughly enjoying the experience. Ive als taken a shate in a foal hoping to make a lound or two pinhooking. |