What fee Blue Point?

Going to be very popular commercial stallion and teak tough. My guess is £35k

I'll go for £20K as Sheik Mo doesn't need the money, and that will make him a little more accessible than his dad....

I think you are being too conservative at £20k BBC. Slade power started stallion life of at €20k and didn’t achieve near as much and this guy is from a much better line also. Has to be £30+. Speaking of sprinters, what are your thoughts on starspangledbanner thus far?

17,500

I’ll go 35K.

I don't think BP was much better than SP.

I will have to disagree truehoncho. How many horses let alone sprinters can you say we’re top notch at 2,3,4 and 5??? I can’t remember any. He is the soundest and toughest sprinter I can remember

SP won the Diamond Jubilee and the July Cup at 5. You could argue his previous form in UK (don't count Meydan group races) was better. A lot of BP comment is hype because it was at Royal Ascot. He will be priced because of his profile and not his ability. They retired him because they know he had peaked, which is fair enough.

Darley can surprise with pricing, often higher but occasionally lower than expected. They have shifted in some of the stallions they have kept and BP is possibly the peak of that process. Well liked by the home team, a champion, by the (restricted access) admirable sire but with speed. My guess would be £40k.

Interesting to compare their pedigrees, neither really sprint bred apart from the Royal Applause mare who was dam of Blue Point. Shamardal is versatile but got a mile well as did Medicean, the grandsire of Slade Power. Pivotal been a strong influence for speed but he was by a miler in Polar Falcon.

I too think hey will price him high. His sire is a plus but the dam line isn't very exciting, is first 2 dams never won. Year 1 & 2 if you can afford it but after that its a big gamble. I am a skeptic but I couldn't afford him anyway!!

Sprinters can and do turn up at every party.
Blue Point averaged 5 starts per season and 6 of those were at 2 so for a sprinter he wasn't the soundest and toughest around I am afraid. He had a soundness incident in Dubai causing his withdrawal from a race and I believe a similar incident has cost him his career this time around.
That will become common knowledge if it isn't already and whilst I know Shadwell operate on a different model he wouldn't appeal to me as much as Muharaar on his retirement so I would be pitching him at 27500 tops.
Is he 10/15k more attractive than Harry Angel?
Not on ratings, not on pedigree and not to me.

worth 20k,

pm, again I’m going to have to disagree with somebody. For a horse to turn up from 2-5 at the top level prices his toughness and soundness. Yes as proxy gene said he got out at the peak of his powers but as a Stallion what more did he have to prove. Again anybody with opinions on starspangledbanner second start as sire??

The crop sizes produced by StarSB initially actually allowed the quality to show through what is usually a quantity game. Larger crops from better quality mares should allow him to push on from the very good stallion he already is. I think he is still a bit underrated.

Gunslinger yep If he was mine I'd be asking for more than £20k a cover. That figure is pitched on the connections hardly needing the dosh to be honest.

Whatever the fee he will  be extensively used for the home team with their stamina laden mares by New Approach, Dubawi et al. How many outside mares they want and from whom will be the key.Like PotM my understanding is that they risked everything to get the Royal Ascot double and the physical hit is such that it would be next year to get him back so stud the obvious route. I do think he is a talented horse with a deal of courage in fairness to him. He is weak on pedigree but outcross appeal, My guess match Harry Angel 20k.

If they are going to fill him with the home team , ala Shamardal,Dubawi,Teofilo,Exceed and Excel what is left will be in fair demand so £20k seems unlikely to me. Whether he would be worth 40k is another matter but if outside covers are scare, sales of offspring ought to hold up too.

Disappointed (selfishly from a breeding point of view) BP is off to Ireland.

Think he'll be 40,000 Euros and full before Christmas

I hope they do proxy and they can find out how good/bad he is and pay for it themselves. I don't think they will do it again. £20k/£40k he is still much, much more likely to fail especially at that level.

It would be fascinating to see which sires did best if mares were allocated at random to the top 100 sires. Would the same dams produce the winners or would the Galileo/Dark Angel/etc. still come out ahead?

Of course he’s going to Ireland! That’s where the best mares in the world are.

That would be something Sageform. I reckon it would be something like Footstepsinthesand or maybe Farhh (if he could get enough of them in foal). On that point anyone heard any rumours about Lightning Spear?

You guys who are more involved with choosing sires might know better but Dandy Man is the surprise to me this season to date. Solid third to Kodiac and Dark Angel who are both very well established sires with Dubawi, Invincible Spirit (12 wins in 13 days of July) and Frankel some way back.

Bullet by name of Ten Sovereigns dodged.

Saw him at the Darley stallion parade and wasn't overly impressed with him tbh.  On the contrary I loved Farhh and Postponed

We'll I shall beg to be to the contrary with you Too Easy!

I went on the Friday, perhaps you were Thursday and he looked different!

Obviously with Shamardal and Royal Applause in the mix you are heading for workmanlike not showy but I liked Blue Point.

The roster keeps improving and Profitable stands comparison with the best too.

Something for every taste really!

P had loads of speed and I love sprinters that get faster as they get older and he did. IS is so hot at the minute I would use him if I could afford him.

Jul 2, 2019 -- 4:38PM, kincsem wrote:

17,500

Harry Angel's first season fee is £20k ,, Blue Point has to be higher surely ..... my guess is that BP's will be in the 25k to 35k range, they can't go too high first time around, if they pitch in at 30k then I am fairly confident that he will attract a good full book of mares.

So 45K euro then...

Clearly I'm a cheapstake!

I knew I’d make a few people eat their words. How did you guys think he would be so cheap?? Name a better sprinter that’s gone to stud in the last couple of decades. Too expensive for me however. Too Darn Hot is very expensive imo, top class 2 yr old but this year the 3yr olds were a bad bunch so I can’t see him being hugely popular at 50k. What’s everyone’s thoughts on Darley fees?

Name a better sprinter that’s gone to stud in the last couple of decades.- Is that sarcasm?

Enlighten me truehoncho?

Ok, so it wasn't.

Both Advertise and Ten Sovereigns £20k less than Blue Point. Both G1 winning sprinters at 2 & 3 and from better families. Darley and friends will have to send plenty to BP. IMO there is no way BP can be  be a better stallion prospect than either of these.

Truehonch, I wonder if you are right.

At the moment I just don't know what to make of these fees.

We now have 10 stallions at above 100,000 euros. If ever there was a sign of overheating this must surely be one, no?

Now if you can't afford these or get into them, both of which are likely, then you have to drop down a league and look for something sexy lower down and that is where Blue Point and Too Darn Hot pop up.

Night of Thunder has over 450 applications already but I just wonder if everyone is getting so hot under the collar that they are nominating a single mare endlessly across every Stallion that looks trendy and when the smoke dies down there will be availability like you say to some surprising stallions?
But then of course those 200+ books that seem to be so commonplace these days don't seem to be getting fewer and this year the choices don't look so widespread so I fear sexy will fill, almost at any price.

My God, there will be fingers burnt.

This 'middle' ground area is a nightmare PotM.  If small fish (like me) plump up courage to go 30-50k we used to have a very solid chance at a big pay day....now I'm really not sure.  The sheer number of stallions who barely make there fees in this tranche is scary. You mention the 100k plusers - I'll bet theres never been remotely as many stallions at 25k+ in history  (I count 40+).  That's over 4k yearlings with a production cost in excess of 40k.  The mind boggles...not least who are these people sending shtty mares to 40k stallions year after year.

Bleeting aside - tweenhills fees?  Zoustar might be the real deal and still cheap but UK runners taking off are a must.  Charm Spirit - bargain or death rattle?  Also Oasis Dream was once my dream cover for my best mare but now I can afford him is it commercial madness?  Answers on a postcard

Blue Point is definitely overpriced. Advertise looks value at £25k.

Hi PotM, a number of people have expressed the same view to me and I concede it's probably the right one. Yer Ma I tried to do that calculation of what percentage of the foal crop would be conceived at 40k or more. I got as far as the number of foals born in the UK and Ireland at around 12000 but realised that a large number of these were NH so I gave up. I think the point is well made though, many hundreds/thousands wont get anywhere near covering their costs and it is far from a zero sum game.

There are a lot of lemmings in the breeding ranks and rushing to very expensive fashionable stallions is the equivalent of hurling oneself off a financial cliff, especially when those sires are new and unproven! The only new sire in GB priced properly in my view is Study of Man, though Masar might be too. There are some very interesting opportunities in second and third season stallions where patronage has been sufficient in quality and quantity, and I think several established sires still offer much better value than Blue Point, Advertise and the rest. Yer Ma, Oasis Dream hasn't lacked for good mares or sales value, and I'd always follow my dream cover when affordable, if that isn't too bad a pun. Sea the Moon still at excellent value too as is Bated Breath. Under 10k Mayson, Equiano and Sir Percy still have enough in the sales ring to be worth using if the mare is right. For me, both Charm Spirit and Havana Gold have too much risk versus reward.

careful with Bated Breath, his yearling median this year was 13k. The lowest its ever been.

See The Moon is very good value, but I dont really have a quality middle distance mare.

I'd not be afraid to send a good fast mare to Sea the Moon.

There aren't the hours in the day for me to vent off about this. Rest assured I will be back!

I notice that Exceed and Excel is £40k. Is that not good value in this market. I thought he was still in demand. Am I missing something with him?

Decorated Knight is surely good value at E9K?