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Still very early days but a burst of wins for Dark Angel this week brings him to 10 so far with Kodiac and Exceed and Excel on 9 each. Same names at the top although Dubawi is only on 2 so far-not an AW sire.
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Now a 5 way tie for the lead on 10 wins each.
Kodiac, Exceed and Excel, Dark Angel, Poets Voice and Invincible Spirit. Poets Voice the only one that has not been in the top 10 before.
Kodiac, Exceed and Excel, Dark Angel, Poets Voice and Invincible Spirit. Poets Voice the only one that has not been in the top 10 before.
Thank you once again Sage for embarking on your odyssey this time for 2018, as always I find it most informative.
For instance, what are we to make of the winners machine that is Poet's Voice? Can he gain an increase in popularity given that he actually produces what the breeding game was designed to achieve?
For instance, what are we to make of the winners machine that is Poet's Voice? Can he gain an increase in popularity given that he actually produces what the breeding game was designed to achieve?
As a well bred son of Dubawi, I am surprised that PV is so reasonably priced. Kodiac back in front today with Reckless Endeavor so now on 12. Thanks pot, I did wonder if anyone was still reading my ramblings.
Very helpful information Sage.Can you tell me how Delegator is doing as a sire ? Thanks.
GB only data. (If you want GB and Ireland look elsewhere). Delegator 13 in first season 2016, 23 in 2017 and 7 so far in 2018. Steady but not spectacular progress. Dragon Pulse is the leading younger sire this year to date with 11. Galileo only 2 so far but never gets many on the AW.
Thank you very much Sage.Why this information isn't more readily available within the industry is a mystery to me.
Isn't this info available on the Racing Post Sire stats? Or is that subscribers only?
It is available on the RP site but unless you record it daily as I do, there is no site that I know of that separates GB from Irish sire data. To check my figures I have to go to Bloodstock, Stallions, choose the sire, filter for year and then look at every horse that won from the list and check that they won on a GB track as the list lumps together all progeny that won wherever the course was.
Does this help?
https://www.arion.co.nz/LeadingSires/LeadingSires.aspx
If you go to the Leading sires tab at the top you can filter per individual country, and season.
https://www.arion.co.nz/LeadingSires/LeadingSires.aspx
If you go to the Leading sires tab at the top you can filter per individual country, and season.
I have had a few dealings with Arion through work and found them pretty good and reliable. It's quite handy for keeping track of worldwide information without having to pay for it! Also interesting to follow how well certain sires do in different countries, like Exceed And Excel in Hong Kong....one assumes down to fast ground, flat tracks....
Very useful site. The British and Irish breeders have always resisted any separation of data so it takes an overseas site to produce it.
Thanks Ile Postino much appreciated, and of course yourself Sageform. RP should be ashamed of itself for putting sire stats for members only. I pay for the paper (I don't thin I will any more) and I don't get them there either.
even more impressed. It has second season and 3yo sire tables. I don't think the RP had them.
I am reduntant now then
But wait, does it separate AW and turf and monthly data as well?
But wait, does it separate AW and turf and monthly data as well?
Dark Angel briefly drew level with Kodiac but 2 more today restored a Kodiac lead of 21-19
Big surprise to me among the top 20 is Delegator now on 12 wins so far this year. Are his progeny suited by the AW or is this a breakthrough season?
Hi Sageform, I think he has something of Sir Percy's profile.In that he can get you a variety of horses, over a a range of distances.Again like Percy, they improve with time.Unfortunately, I think he will run out of ammunition as the season wears on, but it's nice to see him have his moment in the spot light.PS.I think he had a Listed placed horse in France a few days ago.
I should have made it clearer, that the reason for his current success, is I believe, he has 3 and 4 yr olds running for him now,not just two yr olds.Older,stronger, quicker.
Sure you are right about the older horses but Frankel should also benefit from 2 older crops yet he has just 2 wins so far as they don't often race on the AW and the turf flat season seems to ended before it had begun
Here we are at April 12 and still no turf flat before Monday at the earliest.
Here we are at April 12 and still no turf flat before Monday at the earliest.
With some turf under their feet, some Frankel offspring are winning races. Now 5 wins in April in GB plus some nice wins in Ireland and France. Dubawi is another who is really flying now on turf with 7 in April. At the top it is:
Kodiac 26
Dark Angel 25
Invincible Spirit 23
Exceed and Excel 22
Poets Voice 21
Top Derby winning sire by some way is New Approach on 16 from Sir Percy 12. Galileo has just 2 which emphasizes that Irish racing is very different to GB.
Kodiac 26
Dark Angel 25
Invincible Spirit 23
Exceed and Excel 22
Poets Voice 21
Top Derby winning sire by some way is New Approach on 16 from Sir Percy 12. Galileo has just 2 which emphasizes that Irish racing is very different to GB.
Just looking at these and even tho Kodiac is still leading on 31 winners (im including ireland) he has had 319 runners which is 74 more runners more than 2nd most running sire Dark Angel and the 3rd has only had 200 runners so far. Shows just how many runners he has on the ground Kodiac. btw if you had had £1 on every runner your losing 82 at betfair SP
Thanks Koo, I am not suggesting that anyone follows the top sires blind. As you say, some of them have an awful lot of runners. You can with experience narrow them down though. I very rarely bet any horse on the flat that has run more than 10 times in its career as the form book should tell you what it can do and pedigree has very little to add. Low grade sprint handicaps have around 12 runners in each and most of the horses win in their turn so the win percentage will be around 8%.
It was just an addition as i was looking at some stats. Im happy to put anymore from tome to time if anyone asks. I did look quicky at which damsires had had most winners, but it was dominated by the likes of Galileo and Pivotal as they have massive numbers of runners.
a 2nd in the guineas for dark angel, amazing result, kodiac always keeps dark angel from getting to the number 1 spot with all those 2yo winners, none of them are ever top class
Dark Angel actually ahead of Kodiac for GB wins this year but the lead changes every few days. Invincible Spirit close behind.
A treble in 45 minutes for Dark Angel. George Bowen, Harry Angel and Navajo Storm. Now on 40 for the year and 13 for May!
Back comes Kodiac with 5 wins in 2 days. Now on 45 for the year and Dark Angel is on 43.
I notice that the RP have finally separated GB sire stats from GB and Iralnd but it is only the annual list so I will continue to keep monthly ones.
Kodiac still flying along with 6 more wins in June already and now on 58 for 2018, 11 clear of Dark Angel and 18 ahead of Exceed and Excel in third.
Sunsprite the latest Kodiac 2yo to win a valuable race at Salisbury today. Nytaleti beat Billesdon Brook last year!
Two royal Ascot wins for Frankel including the St James' Palace. Third season sires are all in a heap in terms of GB wins but Frankel well clear for prize money with Cracksman still to come:
Mayson 29
Bated Breath 26
Frankel 25
Nathaniel 25
Dragon Pulse 24
Mayson 29
Bated Breath 26
Frankel 25
Nathaniel 25
Dragon Pulse 24
Half way through the year but a bit less than half of the flat races of 2018 have been run.
Kodiac still clear on 75 from Dark Angel on 63.
Poets Voice proving very versatile and a big loss. He has 46 so far compared to 72 last year.
Biggest improvers among the top 25 GB flat sires are Mastercraftsman and Sixties Icon. The latter has already matched his 2017 total of 30 largely due to Mick Channon.
Society Rock is well clear in the second season table.
Kodiac still clear on 75 from Dark Angel on 63.
Poets Voice proving very versatile and a big loss. He has 46 so far compared to 72 last year.
Biggest improvers among the top 25 GB flat sires are Mastercraftsman and Sixties Icon. The latter has already matched his 2017 total of 30 largely due to Mick Channon.
Society Rock is well clear in the second season table.
kodiac is probably my favourite sire. obviously the reason he isn't in the 100k bracket is because he's know for prodigious two year olds, zoffany is a similar sort of sire imo. main edition looked impressive in the falmouth but will she train on as a three year old? the jury is out.
for example yesterday harrington had a two year old winner with klute, in the first at the curragh, none of them had raced before so you were guessing based on connections and breeding, given the sire and connections 20-1 was far too big (with the ability of hindsight, I didn't back it.)
Agreed Lwisham, I dodn't really look at the race until afterwards and kicked myself when I saw the trainer in great form with a Kodiac newcomer. There are a lot of them about though
four winners for Kodiac this afternoon including at least one at each of the three meetings. That is 96 for 2018 in GB.
Three C'S in the 8.30 at Lingfield was a very low key 100th winner for Kodiac in GB this year.
I know I keep banging on about him but Kodiac is still setting new standards .Since July 1 ,he has s ired 41 GB wins, just one short of one every day. Now 116 for the year. Meanwhile Invincible Spirit has made a move with no less than 6 wins today out of the 49 GB flat races.
is it surprising that the stallion(s) covering the most mares have the most winners?
i respect your diligence Sageform, but any chance % or median rating stats could be given a look, surely they are more useful in analysis.
i respect your diligence Sageform, but any chance % or median rating stats could be given a look, surely they are more useful in analysis.
Not really, I would then have to record every runner by sire, not just winners so 10x more work. It is bad enough when there are 50 flat races on some days. Now that the data is available online, the only reason I still do it is that a) I enjoy it and b) monthly data can be very useful in that some sires come into form in different times of the year. Invincible Spirit was well down the list early in the year but is flying now.
Just noticed today for the first time that the print version of the RP carries a "todays sires" table showing the number of wins and percentages for the last 365 days for sires with runners today. I am being made redundant at last.
For those still interested these are the top third season sires to date (wins in GB in 2018).
Bated Breath 58
Frankel 51
Mayson 51
Sir Prancealot 50
Nathaniel 44
Dragon Pulse 37
Foxwedge 33.
Excelebration 31
Considering that Frankel had none before April 1, he has done well. He would also be easily the best of those for prize money.
Bated Breath 58
Frankel 51
Mayson 51
Sir Prancealot 50
Nathaniel 44
Dragon Pulse 37
Foxwedge 33.
Excelebration 31
Considering that Frankel had none before April 1, he has done well. He would also be easily the best of those for prize money.
Poets Voice is a huge loss to breeders. Just 4 crops so far and he is on 85 GB wins in 2018, lying sixth in the list of sires by wins. Chapman Billy at Ayr 2.00 was a typically tenacious winner for him.
Kodiac closing in on his total for last year with 159 wins so far compared to 161 last year. The biggest improver though is Sixties Icon. He has struggled along on 20-25 wins for several years but Billy Ray today was his 58th GB flat winner of 2018 with 2 months to go.
Another calendar year over and Kodiac sets another record for flat wins in UK.
Kodiac 181 (161 last year)
Dark Angel 144
Dubawi 129
Exceed and Excel 117
Invincible Spirit 110
Acclamation 107
Poets Voice 97
Lope De Vega 92
Kodiac 181 (161 last year)
Dark Angel 144
Dubawi 129
Exceed and Excel 117
Invincible Spirit 110
Acclamation 107
Poets Voice 97
Lope De Vega 92
With just 5 races left in January, Kodiac is dominating the sire table again. A barely credible 14 wins in GB flat races with Acclamation on 7 and the rest on 6 or less. That is many as Kodiac had in January and February combined last year.
kodiac has been smashing it up this year so far, lot of good priced winners too, finally started to produce
some group 1 horses. see frankel hasnt dont too badly in january on the AW
just the 3 winners
dark angel and kodiac,with their big price hikes that happened in 2016, will be expecting some nice horses
from these two this year
some group 1 horses. see frankel hasnt dont too badly in january on the AW
just the 3 winnersdark angel and kodiac,with their big price hikes that happened in 2016, will be expecting some nice horses
from these two this year
Frankel finally found 2 maiden winners in the last few days of January. I still don't trust them on AW though.
With the RP site now providing a filter for GB only I have not posted lately but 4 sires are now coming clear of the pack for GB flat wins this year. Kodiac still ahead with 62, Dark Angel on 58, Dandy Man on 45 and Dubawi on 40. Frankel is doing really well on 35 along with Kyllachy considering he has less crops racing.
start looking at racing post today, moneys too tight to mention, do my form study , see how it goes, long term wanna buy some mares, k
20 wins in June has moved Dark Angel 3 clear of Kodiac who is having a quiet month by his standards.
Mini revival by Kodiac this week moves him back on top with 70 GB wins this year.
Dark Angel has made a very strong start to July with 5 more wins and is now clear leader from Kodiac while Dandy Man is still in third and well clear of the rest.
Stewards Cup winner made it 98 for Dark Angel from Kodiac on 97. Dandy Man has been quiet and is joined on 71 by Dubawi with Invincible Spirit and Frankel next. Sea The Stars is the leading Derby winning sire on 47 from New Approach on 40.
B fifty two brings up 100 for Dark Angel. Kodiac on 98.
Night of Thunder
And
Due Diligence
Both admirable strike rates for first 2yo’s
And
Due Diligence
Both admirable strike rates for first 2yo’s
Yes as are Cable Bay and Gutaifan. None of them have reached 20 wins yet though.
still time for muhaarar to catch up with the rest i hope, results so far have been underwhelming to say the least, another winner yesterday
gifted ruler in the 2.30 haydock today, muhaarar colt half brother to kachy, that is a very good pedigree
judging by the IR prices gifted ruler was the first one beat, will keep an eye out for that one, with that pedigree
Incredible pace still being set by Kodiac and Dark Angel. 104 Kodiac and 103 Dark Angel after the 7.40 at Newmarket and 10-9 this month so far and 3-2 today!. Both striking at one a day.
Aryaan at Bath was a 121st win for Kodiac this year and the 27th in August-exactly one per day.
Kodiac still clear from Dark Angel but the improvers from last year are Dandy Man, now third on 98, already 13 more than the whole of 2018. Frankel is now ahead of his 2018 total as are Sea The Stars and Zoffany who has made a very big step forward from 47 to 62 and counting.
im assuming when you first started counting the winners from each stallion, there wasnt many that achieved a 100 winners or more in a season, what do think
has changed over the years, is it down to more racing fixtures ect
has changed over the years, is it down to more racing fixtures ect
More racing, more mares per sire and in some cases more older horses staying in training. Cape Cross in the Sea The Stars 3yo year of 2009 had 132 wins which was a record in my tables at the time. Last year Kodiac had 181 and is on target to at least equal that this year.
Benbatl was 100 up for Dubawi, one day after Dandy Man also got to the century.
Aug 8, 2019 -- 8:38AM, roadrunner46 wrote:
judging by the IR prices gifted ruler was the first one beat, will keep an eye out for that one, with that pedigree
a very generous price on gifted ruler yesterday at 6/4, with that pedigree hope it achieves a lot more
For some inexplicable reason, the leading sire by number of GB wins in October so far is Swiss Spirit with 11. That is nearly 25% of all his wins for the year in 23 days! Is it a combination of softer ground and plenty of AW racing or just a coincidence?
Im glad Dandy Man is doing well. Ive got a teeny share in one of his fillies next year!
The new season sires that continue to impress are Gutaifan and Night of Thunder. Both had wins at Newbury in very heavy ground after a steady stream of winners on a variety of going.
They are very reliable 2yo's. Unfortunately they are found wanting a little in top class even as 2yo's.
Ignore last post. It was meant for another response - sorry.
With so many meetings lost in the last 2 weeks, the total number of flat races will be down unless they put on a few extra AW ones. Six sires reached 100 GB wins last year. So far 5 have done so this year with Lope de Vega on 88 the only one that might still get there. Acclamation and Exceed and Excel are the ones to drop below the 100 target while Dandy Man on 116 is the only newcomer to the elite group.
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