Bloodstock & Breeding

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25 Jan 16 10:17
Date Joined: 26 Jun 04
| Topic/replies: 261 | Blogger: Formtwist's blog
I don't think your old thread is coming back Koo, so here is another for you to tell us all about your news. Tantalisingly you drop in elsewhere that you have finalised this year's large number of covers and lots of us are interested to hear what your choices have been.
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Report Koo.... January 25, 2016 8:52 PM GMT
I've done my usual trick and gone for what deals i felt were best.  The trouble with me is that i find a reason to like a sire, then i try and find another a stat crops up to counter act why i liked the first one.   So i end up going round in circles.  So its which factors supersede the others, I don't know that's for sure.  So here is the complete list of matings for 2016 and hopefully when they all pop out theres a good one amongst them.
I had considered spending a bit more, but with 5 full covers and 2 halves to pay for I ended scraping that idea.

I like a filly deal, having had more a few more fillies than colts so far.  It lessens the disappointment to know next years cover is for nothing.  So the following 4 mares all visit Equiano.

Perfect Persuasion
Legal Art
Run Fat Lass Run

All of these had some pace on their day on the track, thought Equiano did well on the track last year and can sire a good one.  His stats on what I looked for held up well enough for his price tag and i was so sure I would use him for some, I thought well why the hell shouldnt I use him for as many i felt were suitable.  Certainly made ringing around quicker.

Ananda Kanda and Sorcellerie both visit Cityscape.  Struggled with a mating for Ananda as we also struggled to work out what kind of racemare she was.  A 2yo winner but on bad ground and also a winner over hurdles, the dam has thrown lots of winners in the US but is best known for Red Maloney, so which do to go.  The US speed angle or the middle distance /hurdler the family more known for here.  So i went for Cityscape for no obvious if truth be told, been there before and Sorcellerie was already heading there.  Sometimes Im happy to let randomness throw me a nice one :)    Lily Lenor keeps throwing 17hh types, so we thought wed go down the jumps route and used Schiaparelli.  He's at the same stud also so we might save a few bob on transport.   

Fairly flimsy reasons right at the death, but I had spent ages researching as much I can from the sanctuary of my office.  And with free returns for Cityscape next year in the price, a few fillies might see 2017 a cheap year.

What hasnt helped me is being fully stocked, only ever planned on having 3 or 4 so the budget had to spread a touch more thinly.

Ended up with more horses in training than I had hoped for, so fingers crossed one of my yearlings I bought turns out to be a Royal Ascot type now they've turned 2.  And Balty Boys has a profitable year again.
Report Formtwist January 26, 2016 11:22 AM GMT
Well, you have kept it simple anyway and encouraged the studs that offered good deals to breeders. Perhaps a case of Free's a crowd.... Are all your horses in training with Brian? Good luck anyway with everything, especially the admirable Balty Boys.
Report Koo.... January 26, 2016 2:50 PM GMT
I was going to say I dont have many horses in training.  But they soon add up.  The vast majority will be with Brian as usual, might have the odd one elsewhere but Id need a good reason to have many down south really.
Report Big Black Cat January 26, 2016 6:29 PM GMT
The best of luck to you Koo.

Report Koo.... April 11, 2016 8:00 AM BST
Can give you the final update from this years foaling and sadly the final piece in the jigsaw was bad news.

Perfect Persuasion gave birth to a lovely big colt by Lethal Force but sadly there was no sign of life, he was worked on for a bit but essentially it was a lost cause from the start.  Mum had it very rough and theres zero chance of being used this season as well.  Was the first foal lost in 20 years and hopefully the last for a while.  A kick in the teeth with it being the only mare bought specifically to breed and the Sire getting rave reviews.  But thats how it goes and we all know the risks.  Hopefully mum recovers to produce a lovely big colt in 2018.
Of the rest, 3 decent colts all arrived from Lily Lenor, Sorcellerie and Run Fat Lass Run.  Was pleased with all of them.

Ananda Kanda aborted her Faarh last November, however her yearling by Sulamani looks a lovely individual and being by the National winnning sire certainly gets your excitement up for a bit.  Certral never got in foal having had a late cover. 

So, now we have to look forward.  Hopefully the first produce by Ananda Kanda can win a race of some ilk and start the family off with a win somewhere this year.  She has scanned in foal again.  The home-bred by my own stallion Dream Win looks likely to have some ability judged on early gallops reports.  A few bought 2yo's have shown a bit and the older ones are all looking well.  Balty Boys retains all his ability from what gallop reports suggest so fingers crossed he can land a big un and put some money on the pot.

Right time to dust off the form books and try and back some winners today to finance it all.
Report Koo.... April 23, 2016 8:34 PM BST
After the bad news above, finally listed as a breeder in the racecards tomorrow at Thirsk in the opener.   Wishing Tree goes ok at home without being a superstar, but defo should win a race or 2.  Her dam has been scanned in foal again so fingers crossed we have a reasonable showing tomorrow and dont disgrace ourselves.
Report Formtwist April 24, 2016 8:11 PM BST
Respectable start, you must be pleased. Commiserations on the stillborn colt, worse for mare but many of us have experienced it and know how upsetting it is
Report Koo.... April 26, 2016 6:00 PM BST
Cheers Formtwist.  Time of the maiden stacked up very well against the handicap, so am very happy at that.  Not sure she'll stay as well as some think, but she prob ends up wanting 7f so very hopeful in time she'll win and get the mare started.  Main thing for me when betting is if they try and the same will go when breeding, so im just happy weve produced one that tries hard and hope all the dams produce is the same from now so really am delighted looking forward.
Report Koo.... May 17, 2016 4:23 PM BST
Couldnt get Legal Art in foal sadly, but at least she isnt a maiden anymore.  Will have one more go probably now shes won.
Report Formtwist May 18, 2016 7:40 PM BST
Nice win, think she will add to that again.Presume you mean to try again next year, not this, to get her in foal?
Report Koo.... May 18, 2016 10:22 PM BST
The way she works at home, she would definitely follow up.  Her old trainer said she worked well for him and the family might be tricky.  So I thought it was important that she showed she can win races.   Albeit we still hope off much higher ratings that this.   Next year looks more likely unless shes due to be cover in the next few days.

My girlfriends pet homebred has just into full training.  He looks the part to say hes by a sire with one foal so be interesting if he can run.  Think getting a semi ok runner out of a 70 rated sire and a 45 rated mare is an achiemvent, so if we can win a race be something a bit special.  Here's hoping.

Wishing Tree continues to surprise, ran well both starts now.  Not the biggest and wont stay as far as some thing she will.  But should win her races once handicapping hopefully and start the mare off with a winner.
Report Koo.... June 5, 2016 10:08 PM BST
Not a great start to 2016 really.  Perfect Persuasion obv lost her foal so wasnt able to visit the stallion this year althought she has healed up very well ready for next year.
Got one mare with twins, so were hoping she absorbs one.  Another 2 mares arent in foal yet, fingers crossed for better news this week as we are out of time for another cover as far as im concerned.  Dont fancy a late May foal and would rather wait for next year.

On the brighter side, since this is a hobby mainly for me, is the news that Mr Skinnylegs is entered for his first race.  Entered to run at York this Friday in the Rous selling stakes.  We dont think hes completely useless despite starting in a seller.  Its just nice and local for us to go watch especially as Ive one in the last race as well.  Will make sure i know where his dad is before the race .  If anyone is watching keep and eye out for him and see what you think to him.

All the foals and yearings seem ok so thats one blessing.
Report Koo.... October 23, 2017 7:59 PM BST
Thought i might as well post an update since Ive managed to get another homebred to the track.  Leahcar runs tomorrow in the warm novice event at Newcastle.  She's quite a nice type but tomorrow is basically about education and seeing where we are with her.  Apparently shes more than capable of winning a race which would be a nice start with the dams first offspring.  Albeit belatedly. 

Lots of ups and downs with the rest.   There's another 2yo due to run fairly soon out of Ananda Kanda who's first foal (wishing tree)showed plenty at home but then after a few promising runs for expereice did no better when the gun was firmly held against her head.   This 2nd produce is alot bigger and hopefully more robust to take racing better than the training.

Manage to get everything in foal this year that was covered which is the first time thats happened.   Just Sorcellerie was let barren from 6 mares.  6 is a few too many, 4 would suit me more.  So i really need to think about which ones are shown the door.  I did think Sorcellerie would be the first to go, but shes produce 2 nice foals from 2.  Albeit one fractured a leg when showing more than enough to win a race.  We can see how this current yearling progresses over the winter before i commit one way or another with her.

Its certainly not been straightforward trying to breed a winner but hopefully these latest 2 2yo's can win at some point for me.
Report sageform October 25, 2017 7:16 PM BST
The very best horses are mostly homebred but few of us can contemplate the sort of investment that the Aga Khan, Juddmonte, Godolphin and Coolmore can muster. Oppenheimer has managed to break the monopoly twice in recent years but he is also a long established breeder as are the Rothschilds who have not made many waves since Nathaniel. My brother spent 20 years trying to breed jumpers and finally came up with William Somers who was quietly fancied for the Cheltenham Foxhunters before developing an ultimately fatal leg infection. He then spent very little on 2 chasers in training, Presentandcorrect and Perfectly Willing that both went on to be multiple winners in points and hunter chases and cost less than an average stud fee!
Despite that gloomy prognosis, I hope that you get some nice winners from your mares Koo.
Report Koo.... November 11, 2017 6:38 AM GMT
Sold my first yearling through the ring last week.  He was only there as a buy back for auction races but he was well liked by plenty who saw him even though he wasnt prepped for a sale.  I had my reserve in mind to let him go and he reached that so I now hope hes sucessful as I've obviously got the dam but also a spitting image of a full sister.  David Barron bought him so hes in very very capable hands which made letting him go a bit easier.  Still had mixed feelings letting one go as it wasnt expected to try and part with him.
Report Big Black Cat November 11, 2017 10:16 AM GMT
Koo, good to hear your update-good luck with next years coverings.

Of course, not many of us can afford the breeding operations we'd like....but if you get lucky.....

Elite had a slightly above average mare called KALINKA and bred from her-she won on the flat and won over hurdles.

Her first foal (by Barathea) was called BARALINKA-she won and she subsequently bred several winners including another one called MARLINKA (listed winner in Vichy)-in turn, she's the dam of several winners including a filly called MARSHA.

Kalinkas second foal, by Marju, was subsequently called SOVIET SONG...her third was called SISTER ACT, who was blighted by knee problems, but bred some nice foals including one called RIBBONS.

Sovie was unfortunately a bit of a dud as a broodmare, but to be as good a broodmare as she was a racehorse, well she'd have been one of the all time greats...

All the best Koo-hope your hard work pays off and you breed some very nice animals.
Report sageform November 12, 2017 9:04 AM GMT
Interesting to see the Barathea connection.I have always looked at stable lists and tried to pick out unraced horses on pedigree and I remember seeing Barathea and subsequently his sister Gossamer in Luca Cumani's list in horses in training. I backed them both first time out and they won at 100/8 and 13/2 respectively. To me they had the best pedigrees around at the time being by Sadlers Wells, then the champion sire and dominating just as Galileo is now. Their dam Brocade was a Group 1 winner in her own right and was by Habitat, the champion sire of mares for many years. Not doubting the contribution of Kalinka but Barathea will have helped. Overall though Barathea was not a great sire.
Report Big Black Cat November 12, 2017 6:03 PM GMT
sageform, Barathea was one of my favourite horses (pre Elite anyway).  I backed him for the guineas on the basis of his 2 yo form only for him to bump into a rather decent colt of Andre Fabre on the day called ZAFONIC!

I did back him when Frankie rode him to win the BC Mile however-happy days!

He had a very good pedigree as you say, from Gerald Leighs best family.  Sheikh Mo bought a large interest in him and stood him I believe?
Report sageform November 14, 2017 7:28 PM GMT
Correct but Gerald Leigh retained Gossamer who I think won the Irish Guineas? Gossiping is one of her foals but he is a light of other days now.
Report Formtwist November 26, 2017 8:31 PM GMT
Well done Koo - just don't think those bidders are always so willing! What you will find is that seeing it win for someone else is just as rewarding and much less expensive..
Report Koo.... April 30, 2018 10:10 PM BST
Lots to put down as theres a few too many horses knocking around with invoices attached to them

Had a good foaling season with no real problems, bar the foals all needed plasma at birth as there was a small infection going around that the vets couldnt fathom, every test under the sun, Newmarket vets asked for their opinion on all samples, but nothing sorted.  2-3 days in the vets and all foals were allowed home so although not ideal it wasnt the end of the world.

5 mares booked into stallions.  1 so far scanned in foal, 3 others are being covered and 1 just foaled so will try a late covering if possible.

My 2 better mares both had colts, so ive rewarded myself by sending them to Intello.  The others have or are visiting, Garswood, Mayson and Pearl Secret.

My 6th mare has had a very rough 6 months or so.  The vets say they would have had to put her to sleep at one point but gave her more time as she was in foal and she gradually improved enough to go home.  Was refusing to eat and her back joints were blowing up, as a result she lost 60kg+.   Sadly the trauma of foaling has left her in a poor state again with the back legs really bad now and her future looks poor sadly. 

The yearlings look an ok bunch, they'll all go to the back end sale where I'll pick a value and either get bought back or moved on.  Half tempted to send the 2 colt foals to the foal sale as well but i dont want to buy them back twice before ending up racing them :)

All in all im happy with the year, getting a nice foal from Perfect Persuasion and Certral was the highlight given their previous troubles.

Now all ive got to do is breed a winner.  Hopefully sooner than later!!
Report Big Black Cat May 2, 2018 10:09 AM BST
Thanks for the update koo. Good luck with all of those.

I'm particularly envious that you're using INTELLO.  I really liked him as a racehorse, and I think he's a bit of a bargain at stud.  I've mentioned him to the Racing Manager at Elite on numerous occasions, especially as the Club seem keen on getting some Galileo blood into the pedigrees.....
Report Koo.... July 17, 2019 5:12 PM BST
Managed a 2nd today with Sorbonne.   The cloest ive ever come.  Was underbidder last week on something a bit better than ive bred from before, but one of the bigger studs had more than me sadly.   I'll keep trying tho
Report truehoncho July 17, 2019 5:44 PM BST
Cityscape is a good stallion and your horse will improve and win. Good luck Koo
Report Koo.... May 4, 2021 9:12 AM BST
Plenty of trials and tribulations since my post, but thankfully now I've broke my duck and have bred 5 winners, including 4 in 2021 that I own myself.   
So hopefully its onto bigger and better things now. 
Bought one new mare, Sophie Gray, but she lost her first foal with me, but better luck this year and foaled safely a Postponed filly.
Report Koo.... May 4, 2021 9:15 AM BST
My 3 remaining mares are all visiting Cityscape as i like him as an owner breeder, and keeps the costs down.  Depending on how outside factors go, I might try and find another type similar to Sophie Gray.
Report truehoncho May 4, 2021 12:18 PM BST
Nice to hear from you Koo and pleased all is going well.This year and next year could be a good year for Cityscape as he had his best book (according to the stud) a couple of years ago so you will have some running for you.
Report sageform May 5, 2021 8:23 AM BST
Cityscape is starting to climb my list of winning sires and most sires from Juddmonte seem to be a success. Frankel is steadily improving the quantity and quality of his winners and Kingman is making progress although those two have the pick of the mares of course!. New Bay is less well known in GB but could also be significant over time. The big riser in my table is Twilight Son who seems to be following Kyllachy and Pivotal as a prolific sire of sprinters. Like Juddmonte, Cheveley Park have a deep well of class mares to keep the lines going.
Report Koo.... May 17, 2021 10:04 AM BST
All 3 mares are confirmed in foal to Cityscape, so lets hope King Viktor can extend his winning sequence today in what looks a winnable race.   The 3 mares ive got left are Sophie Gray, Perfect Persuasion and Ananda Kanda.
I always look at every sale thinking of one more mare, but only going for better mares like im hoping Sophie Gray is.   Still hoping one day im able to sell some on, but I dont mind being an owner breeder for now with the hope to sell on at HIT sales.
Report truehoncho May 17, 2021 10:16 AM BST
Well done and good luck Koo.
Report sageform May 17, 2021 10:32 AM BST
St Clement is an interesting runner for Cityscape. Clarendon Racing have done very well with the Bethell stable in recent years. I still think that Mutawaarid will win a weak auction maiden.
Report truehoncho May 17, 2021 1:35 PM BST
You seem to be well in at Overbury Koo, can't you get a cheap deal on an Ardad? You could well turn a profit on him next year.
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