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potentialmillionaire
04 Nov 15 20:04
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Date Joined: 17 Mar 10
| Topic/replies: 2,672 | Blogger: potentialmillionaire's blog
Thoughts?

Affordable proven speed. Sounds good, but then so was Kheleyf.
He was on my radar even allowing for him being across the sea so now I need you to all tell me what you think. Something different to ponder at least.

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Replies: 25
By:
truehoncho
When: 04 Nov 15 22:40
If they cut the price like they did with Kheleyf that might work but if they do a Roderic O'conner or the grey at Lanwades (forgot his name),I'm not so sure. Overbury have a lot of unproven stallions and in my experience don't like to deal much. Delegator is a speedy son of Dansili and I hope he works out for them but his sales have been poor. I'm not sure what to make of Cityscape and Kuroshio is a strange one. They could attract plenty of clients if they price FC correctly and I think that needs to be cheap (I always do).
By:
potentialmillionaire
When: 05 Nov 15 10:30
Thank you truehonch. Although 68 people have read this post you are the first to reply even though I thought he would be a horse that would get people thinking.
I am not sure cheap cheap is the answer for this guy though. I think cheap with a first seasoner is okay because he will stand or fall by a consistent (or in) set of first foals and get on a roll or drop like a stone accordingly.
I think that with something a bit more proven and with commercial over production, it is a benchmark of confidence that floats a stallion and most certainly a cheapie is the first that gets dropped by an oversubscribed sales company.
He was a stallion I had no time for at the outset, so I always try and sit up and take notice when that type out performs my expectations as I assume I am not the only one that steered clear.
So does he or doesn't he progress further?
By:
Johnny_Mustang
When: 05 Nov 15 10:51
Paco Boy will be cheaper next year but I can't say much more than that right now.
By:
Johnny_Mustang
When: 05 Nov 15 10:55
Not sure Fast Company is sexy enough to be honest. A top priced yearling of 62K and a median of 14K doesn't set my heart racing. Has had three stakes horses though.
By:
Somerset Sam
When: 05 Nov 15 20:21

Nov 5, 2015 -- 10:51AM, Johnny_Mustang wrote:


Paco Boy will be cheaper next year but I can't say much more than that right now.


Does it surprise you that he's getting his price dropped JM?

By:
Somerset Sam
When: 05 Nov 15 20:23
potentialmillionaire • November 5, 2015 10:30 AM GMT

"He was a stallion I had no time for at the outset"

What was it that put you off initially PM?
By:
Somerset Sam
When: 05 Nov 15 20:34
Off topic (slightly!). Just out of interest a 12 year old half sister to Fast Company, called Mount Klinovec was sold (in foal to Footstepsinthesand) for just 11,000 gns at last Decembers Tattersalls Mares Sale, just a couple of months after her Fastnet Rock yearling colt was sold for 220,000gns. He now runs for Fitri Hay and John Magnier and is trained by David Wachman and won on 2yo debut as well.

Does anyone remember her going through the ring at the time? I wonder why she went so cheaply in the circumstances.
By:
Johnny_Mustang
When: 05 Nov 15 20:47
A little bit Sam, yes. 43% winners to runners and 7 stakes horses in two crops isn't too bad is it? I didn't fancy him from the outset but he's done better than I thought he would. Fee for next year is 6.5k. As is Cable Bay.
By:
yer ma
When: 05 Nov 15 20:54
For what its worth I'd be interested at 5kish.  Didn't take him at 2.5k euro two years ago mind so some concern if they aim too high.

I didn't rate RoC cause he was so easily discarded by Ballydoyle after winning irish guineas to be a pacemaker and I have serious doubts about Ballyhane.  Sales havent reflected his decent start and question is, why will they ever?

Zebedee dropped is clearly as jab in Coolmores direction.  Really does highlight how ludicrous the commercial breeding game is when the son of a very new (and successful by most measures) stallion is more expensive and probably more popular than his dad.

60k for Gleneagles....did I watch an imposter run at Ascot and Keeneland.  He must be incredibly good looking cause for all the Grp1s he's not beaten much.
By:
truehoncho
When: 05 Nov 15 22:54
Hi PotM (and all), I cant get away from the thought that if they don't want a stallion where he is then he is on the way down. After saying that, stallions are often on their way down prematurely for a number of reasons. FC got off to a reasonable start, but as Johnny Mustang says he isn't very sexy. He is however quite well bred and is very proven therefore for moderate mares like my own a reasonable looking foal by him will sell and may well go on to be a racehorse. For this reason he is of interest to me if he is CHEAP. I think there will be far too many better options if he is priced to try and persuade you he is more valuable and better than he is. 
There is every chance this is a stop off (with a 100 mare revenue stream) to Turkey or other sunny shores. If they need someone to look after him in a little stud near Bodrum Truehoncho is very available.
By:
truehoncho
When: 05 Nov 15 22:54
Hi PotM (and all), I cant get away from the thought that if they don't want a stallion where he is then he is on the way down. After saying that, stallions are often on their way down prematurely for a number of reasons. FC got off to a reasonable start, but as Johnny Mustang says he isn't very sexy. He is however quite well bred and is very proven therefore for moderate mares like my own a reasonable looking foal by him will sell and may well go on to be a racehorse. For this reason he is of interest to me if he is CHEAP. I think there will be far too many better options if he is priced to try and persuade you he is more valuable and better than he is. 
There is every chance this is a stop off (with a 100 mare revenue stream) to Turkey or other sunny shores. If they need someone to look after him in a little stud near Bodrum Truehoncho is very available.
By:
potentialmillionaire
When: 06 Nov 15 13:37
S S, my initial thoughts were a very patchy start as a sire of sires by Danehill Dancer, unsound, no real way to gauge his ability and his time spent in the wilderness before he retired.

At the moment though in the two year old sire list I think he is first from twenty five or so in w/r percentage, which I think might keep him in favour with trainers. i also think he has scope to improve with some much better mares covered since his encouraging beginnings.

Is he a definite reject by Rathasker or is it just ownership shuffles like Roderic OConnor?

I appreciate right now sex appeal isn't good but I am thinking of when I sell, not cover. Sexy at the time of covering is often a rather expensive excersise. I am struggling to see many alternatives right now too truehonch!

With Zebedee/Ivawood I think it isn't particularly a phenomonem of this industry. No one would buy too many Chanel little black dresses if they were going to bump into Gladys the Daily wearing the same thing. Tally Ho cover ridiculous size books why would they not expect people to get bored, and quick?
By:
potentialmillionaire
When: 06 Nov 15 13:43
yer ma, I see you're in at the last chance saloon - a good sale mind - hope you haven't been inundated with problems forcing your hand!
By:
Wilycayote
When: 07 Nov 15 16:03
Is he 100% owned by Darley?

Have we got a price for FC yet?
By:
Posh Paddy
When: 08 Nov 15 10:50
I don't think Fast Company is a bad shout.

I think you tend to sell as foals PM so you'll be selling when his 3rd and 4th crops will have just finished their 3yo and 2yo seasons respectively.

Usually this would be a pretty dodgy time to sell but his book size has remained similar over all years 115, 102, 119 & 122.

Now what the quality of mare is in those 2 years I don't know, a little homework with the  "Return on Mares" may be required.
By:
potentialmillionaire
When: 08 Nov 15 11:03
Ah Posh, nice to hear from you, did you get back from The Maldives okay? I felt sure that your Pre winter recharge is what has  kept you away.

Yes with Fast Company it is a case of seeing what his mares will have been like. I tend not to analyse too forensically but rely on what sort of runners a sire had or what sort of sales and how that is likely to have had an impact on the book I am needing to perform for me when I sell.

Actually, I am struggling for mares to cover in 2016 as I only have 2 definites right now. I keep hacking up and down the A14 in pursuit of a maiden but no joy as yet. I'm also wondering whether I am brave enough to find out if there is an agent going to work Keeneland to the bitter end and if they are in any way trustworthy with a commission. There's always plenty of cheapies out there, but would you want them?
By:
Johnny_Mustang
When: 08 Nov 15 11:08
" and if they are in any way trustworthy with a commission"


As rhetorical questions go........
By:
truehoncho
When: 12 Nov 15 07:55
FC had 115 mares in 2015 (Overbury's website). I think that is very promising (still £5/6k would be enough).
By:
potentialmillionaire
When: 12 Nov 15 11:43
So, 4K then truehonch. Food for thought. His ability to get winners is clear, will he get some of higher profile at exactly the moment you wish to sell?
By:
truehoncho
When: 12 Nov 15 14:51
Many thanks for the good news PotM. I have a filly that I bought in July that will suit him down to the ground. I also have a mare that I have a 2yo running for me next week that could suit, decisions, decisions!

In any case something priced to give us a sporting chance. (should probably have been £1k cheaper)
By:
truehoncho
When: 14 Nov 15 18:21
What about the Cityscape deal. Is that any good. I have to say that of they did teh same thing with Delegator I may be tempted. Cityscape isn't really for me even though I fully appreciate he was a good race horse.
I think they did the same with Lord Byron a few years ago. I can see it working for the 3rd and 4th seasons with a stallion and I like to see deals and different packages for breeders although I know its not for everyone.
By:
potentialmillionaire
When: 16 Nov 15 12:02
If you like the sire then you'll like the deal I imagine. However it does need to come in that order. He had plenty of ability and owns plenty of pedigree so it would be nice to see him succeed and any extra mares that they receive give them that chance. At least he has the credentials to deserve a shot.
By:
samthetipster
When: 22 Nov 15 11:11
Hi All,

I am involved with selling noms for Overbury so if I can help with a good deal on any of them then let me know. My email is sam@ovstud.co.uk.
Cityscape has some lovely foals on the ground for what its worth and hopefully they will sell well at Tatts this week. Hopefully the new deal on him will help.
Sam
By:
truehoncho
When: 28 Nov 15 19:03
Hi Sam,

I'm not sure what to make of Cityscape's foals. I looked at a few, they didn't look too bad and thought they might make a little more. I see Kuroshio is not coming back this year which is a shame as I was looking at using him and Fast Company and hoping to get a deal.

The sales only confirmed to me that if you are trying to make a profit with average/moderate mares you shouldn't be paying some of these stallion fee's that have been talked about. The first two days were really poorly attended and that was reflected in the sales. This isn't going to change next year so if your not producing foals that can get into Thursday or Friday then it's going to be tough (almost impossible for fillies) and there are only so many slots available for these days.

On the plus side if you are looking for stock to race that's where to get it.
By:
potentialmillionaire
When: 01 Nov 16 12:10
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