Stallion fees 2016

Can only think of one in that category Johnny-Mustang, so presumably you are talking euros? Showcasing takes a huge leap up the fee ladder too, and anyone using him enters a dodgy territory now with third and fourth season stock out there the next couple of years. Can we hope that in response to some painful declines in yearling sale statistics this year there will be lots of reductions in fees for the majority of more modest stallions out there?

I'll have an even tenner with you Formtwist that there'll hardly be any deductions in that category. Yes, spot on with that currency by the way.

Can be one of two, and stood by members of the same genetic pool!

Both these stallions are at a zenith of commercial appeal. Will they still be sexy when you come to sell off a 50k fee?

I bow to no one in my admiration of these two horses, but fashions can and do change. . . . .

I was surprised by Showcasings leap although when I put a mare forward for consideration I was informed he was increasing and I made it known that a reasonable increase was to my mind justified.
Is that reasonable? He has had the identical season this year to last in my mind but he needs to improve a bit to reach that level I think. However when did the stallion men do anything but price on a what 'might' be.

Sadly reality for the rest of us gives us a very good handle on what might happen and it's usually in the opposite direction!

I'd conservatively say 50% of stallions in the 20-50k bracket at least 20% overpriced.  Just add Showcasing to that list.  He's not had a further upgrade and his median has gone DOWN on less stock to market.  I'd bite Shadwells hand off for their Oasis Dream by comparison for that money

are there any second season stallions that we think may be a bit of value among the cheaper ones. What about Heeraat for instance? He is a very good looking colt. I still keep looking at Kuroshio, he does seem to have some decent form and a nice colt foal by him should be shiftable. I still don't know why he only had 33 mares in his first year.

Truehoncho, the unanswerable question. Are you lucky at roulette or cards? Meanwhile, new sires arrive by the planeload but the studs are mighty shy about the fees.....anyone here got the inside word?

I know Dutch Art need to come down dramatically to be any value. A poor season altogether. The same can be said for Iffraaj, Dansili(already discussed), New Approach (£80k???). Whereas Kyllachy at £15k must seem good value.

Roderic O'Connor, not wanted by Ballyhane so moves to National Stud and they increase his fee to £9,000.

We're in trouble lads....

Have they got the exchange rate the wrong way round? He'd fill at £5000 I think, but a poor substitute for the Golden Horn deal we'd been given to understand they expected.

That really is a **** deal for RO. What are the NS on? Who in their right mind would fancy that deal? I like him as a stallion and he will definitely produce nice horses but £9k is no value. Fwits

To be fair to The National Stud I'm not sure they really expected to get Golden Horn. I think people just put two and two together that because Anthony Oppenheimer stated he wanted the horse to stay in Newmarket, that's where he would end up. He rejected a bid of £15m after the Eclipse and at that point it became very clear that if that price was turned down, the National Stud would never have the financial firepower to get involved thereafter.

I always pay attention to a johnnym post on topics like this. I don't know how he has the sources but what he leaks is always very titillating. And then of course we get to drool over all the stuff he chooses not to!

I worry about ROC but not to the point that I feel overly negative. He has made a good start that compares favourably with horses that will have been given way way better chances. If he continues in the same vein next, then I think he will warrant much consideration in 2017.

I am sure Ballyhane would not have wanted to lose him but if the owner wanted to stand him at €12,000 it might have been hard to square that with clients and you can't blame the owner for fancying some sterling over euros.

I suppose as the National Stud is presided over by the breeder of Rodders, that too might have had some bearing. I don't see the horse as anybody's reject just yet.

GH was going to the National Stud until he won the Arc.

RO is certainly not a reject far from it but in my view he is similar to Kheleyf. Has done well in his first year but not quite what the market in Ireland wants, or at least wants well enough to warrant an increase. So why would anyone over here want him for that fee?

No he wasn't truehoncho. Negotiations had been ongoing with Darley and the deal was done on the Friday evening before the Arc.

Cheveley make the first move and fair play to them.

and £15k for Kyllachy is good value.

Thank Christ someone has. It is truly pathetic that they are all too frightened to move, and I would like to be less charitable and say that they are all too bl00dy greedy to move also, desperately trying to gauge how much interest is around before seeing how very high they can go.
I think Kyllachy is a polarising stallion seen by 50% as an old stallion who doesn't get enough stakes horses whilst the other 50% compare him to what else is out there and point to him as a winner machine.
I am in the former camp, but I do happen to have one floating around produced because I needed proven and compatible so time will tell how harsh I should be on the sire!
They should have knocked the 5k off Dutch Art they stuck on last year and then dealt him down to 30. Probably still too much but contrary to popular opinion I do have a heart.
I think If Lethal Force is throwing someone else's front legs then he looks good value for a gamble. Foal sales should tell us more.
Medicean and Mayson are good prices if you like that sort of thing.

Oh and hallelujah, the Thompsons have finally forked out to have the same details on the Racing Post Bloodstock site that every other stallion station has known to be necessary for aeons.

Dubawi £225,000.

And Golden Horn £60K.

So why would you spend £60K on an unproven sire (GH) when you can use his dad for £20K?  That's his dad whos sired GH, STS and Ouija Board amongst his 11? Individual G1 winners.

For Pot M's info as I know he was waiting for these:

Farms is pleased to announce the 2016 nomination fees for its stallion roster.

Stallion    2016 fee
BATED BREATH    £10,000 SLF
CACIQUE     £12,500 SLF (limited book)
CHAMPS ELYSEES     £8,000 SLF
DANSILI     £85,000 SLF
FRANKEL     £125,000 SLF
KINGMAN     £55,000 SLF
OASIS DREAM     £75,000 SLF
Stud Director UK Simon Mockridge commented: “Juddmonte Farms has one of the most exciting stallion rosters in Europe, and has much to look forward to in 2016 with the first-two-year-olds by FRANKEL and BATED BREATH reaching the racecourse. The first yearlings by both sires were well received at the sales this autumn, with FRANKEL averaging £464,000 for 19 sold, with a top price of €1.7 million, and BATED BREATH achieving an average of over £47,000 for 55 sold and a top price of 230,000 guineas.

“We are also eagerly awaiting the first foals by Classic-winning champion miler KINGMAN, who covered an exceptional book of mares in his first season, comprising 80% blacktype earners/producers including 25 Gr.1 winners or dams of Gr.1 winners.

Kodiac fee up to 45,000 euros for 2016 season

MUHAARAR at the Nunnery Stud
The son of OASIS DREAM travelled with Cliff Booth from Charlie Hill’s yard who has looked after MUHAARAR during his time in training along with TAHRIR’S other offspring RUFOOF and SAJWAH. He will stand alongside fellow multiple Gr.1 winner NAYEF and 2014 Coral – Eclipse (Gr.1) winner MUKHADRAM.

Shadwell took the opportunity to announce their stud fees for 2016. Both MUKHADRAM and NAYEF will remain at their 2015 fees of £7,000 and £5,000 respectively. As a four-time Gr.1 winner and Shadwell’s flagship stallion, MUHAARAR will stand at £30,000. All terms are 1st January, Special Live Foal.

Richard Lancaster, Shadwell’s Stud Director commented:

“After discussion with Sheikh Hamdan, we decided to set MUHAARAR’S fee at £30,000 1st Jan SLF. As ever, we are keen to provide the best possible value for breeders and we strongly believe that this is a very reasonable price for MUHAARAR as he is the best sprinter we have seen for a number of years. We have been inundated with applications and although it is early days, we have been offered some exceptional mares for him.”

“MUKHADRAM will remain at £7,000. We have been swamped with bookings for him since early in the year and we are particularly delighted with the number of people who have decided to use him again in his second season. We aim to accommodate as many mares as is reasonable but we will stay true to our commitment to limited books of mares and for that reason we will no longer be taking bookings for MUKHADRAM.”

“NAYEF has again proved that he is a versatile and great value sire, he added another 4 Group winners to his tally during 2015 and has produced not only stakes winning older horses but some eye-catching 2 year olds. We are particularly grateful to his long term supporters such as Juddmonte who continue to enjoy success with this stallion’s produce with horses such as dual Gr.2 winning SNOW SKY.”

Richard Lancaster went on to show his thanks for the team commitment that has lead to the continued renaissance of Shadwell’s stallion roster:

“Our thanks go first and foremost to Sheikh Hamdan. His insight and guidance is invaluable in all areas of the business, none more so when it comes to standing stallions for the benefit of the Thoroughbred breeding industry. Derrinstown Stud raised and grazed MUHAARAR and were instrumental in his formative years. Our thanks also go to Charlie Hills, Angus Gold and his team in the Racing Office whose management of MUHAARAR have secured him as not only Europe’s Champion Sprinter, but one of the most exciting stallion prospects the UK has seen in recent years.”

Shadwell Stud 2016 nomination fees:

MUHAARAR    £30,000 1st Jan SLF
MUKHADRAM    £7,000 1st Jan SLF
NAYEF    £5,000 1st Jan SLF
SAKHEE    Private

All the cheaper ones seem to be going to Ireland. Surely (hopefully) there are a few more to come out of the woodwork yet?

Delighted to announce our stud fees for 2016, including:
Kodiac: €45,000
G Force: €8,000
Zebedee: €8,000
Society Rock: €6,000

2016 stud fees continued...
Morpheus: €5,000
Sir Prancealot: €5,000
Baltic King: €1,500

with zebedee's fee going down, how does that look for ivawood?

Aga Khan Studs announce fees: Sea The Stars remains at €125,000; Siyouni raised to €30,000; Makfi up to €20,000

I was a little surprised Zebedee went down (there's an obvious gag lurking here that I'll resist making).

Coolmore fees are announced. Can't be ar$ed to type them all out but Gleneagles starts off at 60K.

Here you go Johnny M...

Stallion 2016 fee (2015 fee)

Australia €50,000 (€50,000)

Camelot €25,000 (€25,000)

Canford Cliffs €17,500 (€12,500)

Excelebration €15,000 (€17,500)

Fastnet Rock Private

Footstepsinthesand €10,000 (€10,000)

Galileo Private Private

Gleneagles €60,000

Henrythenavigator €7,500 (€15,000)

Holy Roman Emperor €17,500 (€20,000)

Ivawood €9,000

Kingston Hill €6,000

Mastercraftsman €35,000 (€40,000)

Most Improved €4,000 (€5,000)

No Nay Never €17,500( €20,000)

Pour Moi €10,000 (€12,500)

Power €8,000 (€8,000)

Requinto €5,000 (€4,000)

Rip Van Winkle €12,500 (€25,000)

Rock Of Gibraltar €10,000 (€12,500)

Ruler Of The World €10,000 (€15,000)

So You Think €12,500 (€12,500)

Starspangledbanner €15,000

War Command €15,000 (€15,000)

Fasliyev....sorry I mean Zoffany - €45,000 (€12,500)

Telescope? He has a fair pedigree but is he only NH? At least he's cheap!

Hot Streak to stand first year at 7,000 fee: TWEENHILLS in Gloucestershire has set a £7,000 fee...

Gosh. Same sentiment Guitaifan €12500 and Due Dilligence £6500.

Seems no one wants to be seen with a 5 grander any more.

You are right Potm and that means £10k for a foal gets you enough profit for a chicken dinner.

There will be new £5k soon announced. Meanwhile, PotM nothing fruity on very fertile proven Sir Percy whose sales stats are good.

Nov 6, 2015 -- 8:25PM, truehoncho wrote:

You are right Potm and that means £10k for a foal gets you enough profit for a chicken dinner.

Asked this question a while back and didnt really get a definitive answer (perhaps there isnt one!)

What would the costs be (excluding the stallion fee) that a breeder would be looking to clear just to break even?

Somerset Sam,

For a walk in:

Vets bills mare and foal £500 - £1000
Transport for mare to get covered and foal to the sale £500
Feed bedding and hay mare and foal £1500
Sales £1000 Farrier, tack, etc £500

A lot of fees announced today! To pick a few...

Surprised Harbour Watch has stayed the same, thought his yearlings could have sold better.

I think Gutaifan at E12.5 is a little more than I'd anticipated, but I would probably still use him if I was in Ireland as clearly a talented horse. Free Eagle at E20 looks great value to me.

Due Diligence and Hot Streak look like the two most commercial options in UK.

I think DD is £2k too much (at least). Outstrip at £5k a group 2 winner, as a 2yo then a G1 winner.

DD listed winner rated a few pound lower than Outstrip.

Truehonch, I'm more of a timeform man and DD was 120 as a 3yo which is well above Outstrip.

I'll let you use Telescope thanks.

Almost tempted to try and find a mare for Free Eagle at E20. Surely that is serious value??? What am I missing?

I don't get the smarmy Telescope comment but I accept your view on DD.

I just don't understand why he is worth £6.5k as a listed winner. Its about winning not getting high ratings. Neither he nor Outstrip is any thing like a good horse. We are simply talking about them because they are cheap (relatively) and first season. I seriously doubt if anyone is going to breed anything any good out of either of them and anyone using them probably doesn't care as long as they sell their foal/yearling. I don't care a jot which one of these very average animals is better than the other, I just don't understand why he is worth £6.5k. I thought £4k was about right.

I couldn't agree less. Genetics can only pass on ability, not race results. A foal doesn't know whether it's dad was 1st or 2nd, but it does know whether they had lots of ability, ie a high rating. Hence why Danzig was a superb stallion, what did he win? Very little.

I like to go with what is fast and commercial as I can't afford to play the classic game.  I like stallions that win on their 2yo debuts as well. I think England might have a better selection of new speed with DD, HStreak, Brazen Beau etc than Ireland which is a nice thought.

We're in a much better position than 15 years ago when I felt all the commercial options were in Ire.

Danzig was unbeaten in 3 races before being retired through injury.

I will always argue that ratings running behind are never as good as winning ones but I don't disagree with your points Wily just the price. He is starting off to high. Same as Cable Bay at £6.5k who only won a maiden at 2 and 3 yrs old and the maiden he won was rubbish (Outstrip beat him easily as a 2yo). Outstrip has a good precocious pedigree and is £5k to breed with until you don't want to anymore.

Why would you think that a foal/yearling of equal looks/pedigree would fetch more from DD than Outstrip? This is a commercial breeding forum (at least it seems to be, so surely that is the key question. I guarantee that Darley et all will support Outstrip more than Whitsbury will DD.

Fair enough. I feel a long range sporting bet;

I bet the first crop foals by DD will average at least 2k more than the Outstrip foals. Im sure you'll remember the bet in 2 years time. Best of luck (sincerely)...

what other stallion fees are we still waiting on?

Well Wily that's a fair way of making a point. I will look forward to seeing what happens and more importantly understanding why.

Starspangledbanner at €15 looks good value if you fancy rolling the dice!

Does anyone know what sort of fertility Stats SSB had in Aus? (give or take).

From memory in Aus he was running around 45-50% which is a great deal better than the 20-25% he got in Ireland first time around.

SBallylinch Stud 2016 Stallion Fee's
Beat Hollow €6,000
Dream Ahead €17,500
Intense Focus €5,000
Lawman €25,000
Lope de Vega €45,000

Would that more studs follow Newsells' lead on a rebate for filly foals. Plus fee reduction too....where's that tenner JohnnyM ?

Cash or cheque Formtwist?

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Dubawi-now £225k-up from £125k

Im a bit short of the readies

Johnny-M you are a gentleman and a man of honour - details appreciated and glad we could do some mutual good in the world. Sorry to take a while to reply, been out of internet zone.....