Bloodstock & Breeding
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that the stallions around now (that was circa 1989) were nothing compared to the ones around 25 years earlier (1960s),
And now, I think the ones around these days are poor compared to the ones from a quarter of a century ago, but I'm errrrrr not taking much evidence into account.
I know it's a huge subject, but what do you breeding students with memories stretching that far back think?
Just looking for an overview and maybe one or two examples to illustrate your feeling/opinion.
Thanks for your time
And now, I think the ones around these days are poor compared to the ones from a quarter of a century ago, but I'm errrrrr not taking much evidence into account.
I know it's a huge subject, but what do you breeding students with memories stretching that far back think?
Just looking for an overview and maybe one or two examples to illustrate your feeling/opinion.
Thanks for your time
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Ribot was not only a great racehorse, (undefeated in 16 races including winning the Arc by the greatest distance) he was an outstanding stallion. Nothing standing today or in 1989 would come near to his abilities.
Stallions today can cover 200+ mares, get a couple of black type performers (generally from top producing mares) and they are described as champions. Stallion promotion nowadays is all about spoofing, bluffing and marketing, whereas in the past the progeny of the great sires (who generally covered no more than 50 mares) did the talking. |
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There are a few Stallions that leave a lasting impact on the breed and in my experience of 60 years, the main ones in Europe are Northern Dancer, Danzig, Sadlers Wells, Sharpen Up, Habitat, Danehill, Galileo. I am judging by the number of Group performers sired, dam-grandsired, and legacy.
Some may question the inclusion of Habitat who never sired any influential sons but made up for it with many Group 1 daughters and loads of Group 1 progeny from his mares. He was almost as dominant as Frankel on the racecourse being beaten just once on debut. We have yet to see whether Frankel and Kingman succeed as sires but I will be surprised if they don't. |
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Danehill is really amazing when you look at his progeny list on the Racing Post site.
I have just picked 10 of his stallion sons and there are many more Dylan Thomas Rock of Gibraltar Duke of Marmalade Westerner (a leading NH sire) Mozart Dansili Exceed and Excel Oratorio Holy Roman Emperor Danehill Dancer |
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Good replies,
I was a fan of danehill as a horse and his record as a sire is amazing, but how do sires from his time stand up against those from the earlier era? Was the gap (quality of offspring and strength of lines) between Ribot et al. and Danehill's generation bigger than the gap between the latter and the top sires of today? |
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You can't judge todays sires until their stallion sons and broodmares have had time to make or break their reputations. Invincible Spirit has steadily improved the quantity and quality of his offspring as he has been given better mares to cover. Kingman is his best offspring to date but there could be plenty more to come. Moonlight Cloud is his best daughter so far. He still has a very long way to go to match Danehill or Galileo though. He is by Green Desert, who I suppose should have been on my initial list, out of Rafha, a very good mare by Kris-who was of course by Sharpen Up.
Oasis Dream is another leading sire by Green Desert but his progeny have yet to make much impact at stud. Midday is his best money earner and being part of the Juddmonte studs, she should be given every chance to produce even better offspring. |
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Sorry Laluche, but I don't think I can play this game!
I suppose conjecture is fun but book sizes, commercial considerations, and breeder motivation have all changed so massively since then that really the two eras are not really connectable. From a grabbing at the air sort of exercise I wonder if Mill Reef doesn't sit with Habitat and Sharpen Up in Sageform's list? |
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Thanks millionaire for input,
I wasn't looking for a solution as such, more for your thoughts of the quality of sires of the eras in question and their resonance over (some period) of time. Not connectable... though you know way more than me in this sphere, I find this hard to believe (about anything and everything for that matter) Thanks anyway |
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hi laluche- I think the term is nostalgia.... If all the stallions long ago were wonderful then all the horses long ago would have been wonderful when obviously there were just as many useless horses back then. The percentages of stakes winners for top stallions in the past eg northern dancer, nijinksy,bold ruler were in the high teens whereas nowdays it is rare to break 10% but that is explained by much smaller, more selective books
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Potm, I agree that Mill Reef should be there. I came up with the list off the cuff and left out one of my all time favourite racehorses.
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