GB Flat Sire table for 2014

Very early days in 2015, but Kodiak with 11 wins is already 3 clear of the pack.

Proxygene top 10's for 2014 with 10+ runners

Sires

10699 Galileo
10672 War Front
9565 Invincible Spirit
8768 Oasis Dream
7921 New Approach
7547 Dark Angel
7536 Dubawi
7324 Shamardal
6438 Arch
6203 Exceed And Excel

Broodmare Sires

12843 Danehill
8874 Big Shuffle
7516 Titus Livius
7398 Bishop Of Cashel
7287 Efisio
7220 Dr Devious
6650 Mind Games
6583 Oasis Dream
6542 Mark Of Esteem
6367 Blues Traveller

Teofilo is the main surprise this year so far now second on 10 wins, not so much that he will succeed as a sire but that he is getting plenty of AW wins which Galileo rarely does.

5 of those winners have been for Appleby deffo they are targeting the AW for stallion win numbers.

Poor auld MJ does he have any runners left in the green colours

With the thousands of mares covered by Coolmore stallions they couldn't get one into the top ten.

Gotchee, that surprises me as well.

Just to remind you that my totals are wins in GB only, but I agree that the table is always at odds with the prize money one. If you include Ireland you get a different result as Coolmore farm the maidens as well as many other Irish races with their own sires dominating.

If anyone wants any other stats, ask and ill see if i can produce them.

Hi Sageform,

great stats. No excuse for Coolmore, top 2 stand in Ireland.

I hope I'm wrong but I have a feeling they are no longer on the up. The amount of money the Arabs have thrown at it is finally paying off. Its ironic that the best sons of Danehill, Galileo, Giants Causeway are all in the enemies hands.
They are very shrewd operators but I could never understand why they don't have a base in Britain for the lower end. Its not just about money, but the opportunity to turn up a good one every now and then.

Anyway, keep up the good work!

Galileo is still the best sire based on Group race wins, average RPR etc. so in no way do I think that my stats disprove that. The reason that he fails to make the top 10 in my table is that he has very few AW wins and most of his Group class offspring win their maidens and trial races in Ireland before coming across for a Classic or whatever target they have. The preponderance of races over a mile or less is also a factor.

No need to apologise or make excuses for Galileo's lack winners.
The reality is that Galileo is not a prolific sire of winners.
Can anybody come up how many progeny he has produced and how many of racing age have won?

I'm no cheerleader for Coolmore but you're jaundiced view on them is a bit tiresome. Galileo is NOT a prolific sire of winners.  Utter tosh.  His wins to runs ratio (setting aside he has so many good ones) is higher than virtually all other leading sires and 64% winners to runners is as high as IS, OD, Dansili, Shamardal and much higher than most - E&E, kyllachy, kodiac, acclamation, Bigbadbob (i think a favourite?), dutch art etc.  He's had around 1000 wins according to RP, slightly more than the similarly aged top of the charts IS.  IS stock obv tend to a. run over shorter b. more precocious so each runner may well run more times that the average Galileo.

Not making this list is completely irrelevant other than demonstrating he gets lots of winners outwith the UK.

No need to get tetchy yer ma. You are spurting out stats that have no relevance to the question posed.

Crop analysis is a very important measure of the merit of a stallion.

Come back to me when you have the relevant figures and stop trying to camouflage the facts.

Furthermore, how many and what % of his progeny have won prize money equivalent to or more than his covering fee?

Apologies for misinterpreting

'Galileo is not a prolific sire of winners' and 'Galileo's lack of winners'.

The other questions you ask are interesting but imo largely irrelevant to the people paying the covering fees.  They either want to sell for a profit, win Group races or have a valuable broodmare - none of that has anything to do with prizemoney covering costs.  This analysis would be all but impossible as a large % of Galileo's cover's are foal shares or involve coolmore mares or part-owned mares.  There are not 100 odd people paying 250k covers ever year.

You seem to have established Galileo's crop does not produce winners so you must have 'the facts', I don't have that analysis.  I'd bet money if it exists it would show he is no less (and probably more) prolific that any other top stallion.  Given the mares he gets it would be bizarre if that wasn't the case.  The only caveat would be if I had a Galileo filly that wasnt particularly promising or not terribly sound I am less likely to run it at all, compared to a cheaper produced or bought filly.   

Lots of ropy aspects to Coolmore business but Galileo is patently not one of them.

GB Sire table to Feb 27 2015.

Kodiak  14
Teofilo  10
Invincible Spirit 9
New Approach 9
Pastoral Pursuit 9.

Galileo 2.

Interesting that 2 sons of Galileo are doing very well on the All weather tracks.

Nice to see Yer ma smoked out of hiding!
His comments are interesting as it is a fact that Galileo is really a whole different kettle of fish to just about any other stallion alive. His fee is humongous, yet rarely paid. He accepts big books yet is almost impossible to get into. He is so dominant in his field yet his horses often can't win in a race because another Galileo has won it instead. Add to that fact that Aidan O'Brien probably has 70 of his crop every year which are specifically handled for aims that will never be entirely clear and I for one am left wondering how the hell are we to judge the horse?
I am certainly not about to concern myself with his All weather figures pre March in an attempt to further my knowledge.
He is a fabulous sire though and no one will convince me otherwise.

Truehonch's view that things might be not all dominant in Tipperary may or may not have credence. I think though that their breeding operation remains the best and that the supply of great racehorses, given also their buying talents, isn't going to dry up anytime soon so therefore presumably nor will their sire prospects.
Have 'just the four' they've retired this year left them vulnerable to Juddmonte, Darley, Cheveley and their one each?
Mmm. . .

Potm, presumably your lack of interest in Galileo's AW stats are from a breeders point of view which I would share, but I am trying to inform my betting strategy and in that case I put a line through Galileo progeny in AW races. Even the few that win are usually underpriced.

I hope I didn't come over as denigrating your stats sage, It was just they seemed to have created some discussion about Galileo who as you say is best ignored when it comes to the All Weather from just about every angle!
I enjoy your figures enormously and as you say the New Approach and Teofilo results are fascinating.

It is surely another indicator of owner/trainer combos and their targets and how that can skew a stallion's career when all we've got to go on are stats and results!

Not at all. I realise that you are involved in breeding horses yourself which I have only done with one mare back in the 90's. As you point out, Sire stats can be heavily influenced by the big owners and the Godolphin factor is significant in the New Approach figures this year.

Just watching mare-shaped kettles boiling PotM - sure you are doing to the same.   Hope you have signed all your cash away on Kingmans and Australias.

Not so much kettles as Paint drying, with my reluctant mothers yer ma. Should manage one this month.

I think you can say I am going Kingman/Australia, but "lite" versions!

I've tried to stay true to the mares ability with my matings but that has resulted in overspend for sure. Managed to be happy with one cheapie and another still to find but she is the March foaler so we'll wait to see what appears first, as she's a maiden of no great beauty. Page looks okay though so you never know. . .

Really annoyed with myself for letting the market put me off the first Galileo 3yo turf maiden of the year. Pandora had a betfair SP of 30!!!! Galileo still has only 3 AW wins this year but now that there is turf racing watch out.

NAADIRR looks good horse, should have good season. remember it beating that good yardstick ladies are forever last season in
a Saturday tv race. will post few that merit notebooking. posting in the irsih forum as usual, ROADRUNNER46 ALETRS. goodluck
looking forward to my fav American horse in the Dubai world cup CALIFORNIA CHROME. was good price at 8/1, that's long gone.

Naadirr another good sprinter for Oasis Dream.