Bloodstock & Breeding

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20 Feb 14 15:05
Date Joined: 27 Oct 07
| Topic/replies: 1,150 | Blogger: ffs's blog
Breeding and selling are based on trust, that nothing is in the game. All Irish breeders should applaude him as he's taken one for the reputation of the Irish horse
Pause Switch to Standard View Well Done Barry Connell
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Report ffs February 20, 2014 3:09 PM GMT
and commiserations to backers of TTT, but the owner takes the hit also.
Report potentialmillionaire February 20, 2014 8:30 PM GMT
How does Mr Connell's actions have much of an impact on Irish Breeders or buying and selling ffs?

What am I missing here.

If a trainer uses illegal substances to get ahead then throw the book at him I say and it is laudable that Mr Connell wishes to keep his horses at home whilst there is ambiguity in the air.

It reflects very well on him but I am not sure his actions make much difference at the bloodstock sales or in the breeding shed.
Report ffs February 20, 2014 10:24 PM GMT
If a prominent owner makes a big stand against the practice then it's a signal of his confidence in the breeders he invests in,

and it dissuades anyone from trying to cut corners in future. IF a farm gets a reputation as a good source, it's worth keeping.

seems pretty simple to me.
Report ffs February 20, 2014 10:29 PM GMT
e.g. Breeze-ups or PtP horses could go to an English buyer or to Barry Connell, potentially these could be 'pumped'

If Mr. Connell is willing to make such a stand at personal loss (and he's not the only one who would do it, it's symbolic ... the play was on him), he won't touch something that has a hint of trouble about it.
Report yer ma February 21, 2014 1:37 PM GMT
I sort of see where you are coming from but tbh I think he's taking a pragmatic rather than moral stand here.  No suggestion he's leaving trainer.  If the horses are implicated and say you win a the festival and get stripped of a title what a nightmare. The BHA must be pulling hair out - if this was a UK trainer they'd suspend his horses to avoid the high likelihood of bringing the game into disrepute (if he's convicted after winning the blue ribbon event!).  Breeding wise this is pretty irrelevant - this will defo be older horses getting pick me ups / putting on condition / recovering from injury.
Report ffs February 21, 2014 1:56 PM GMT
hi yer ma,

true that Connell is say taking a hit of 10k euro, given the prize money and odds of winning ... pocket change, and nothing to a man who shuns the spotlight,

but look at the great horses Ireland has produced, Sea the Stars, Galileo, New Approach .. they indirectly employ 1000s of people and people come from all over the world because they believe the racing is legit - and the breeding eventually proves, yes it was.

the same is true for broodmares - how many do we stand ? about 7000 I think, and their race performances affect their value.

remember we export an awful lot of horses

Look at Certify - ok she might have been wrong yday, but she flopped in a G2 when she was A/P fav for 1000 guineas - how would you feel forking out £1m for her first prog only to find she was doped ???

The game must be clean, in Ireland, or foreign breeders will go elsewhere.
Report ffs February 21, 2014 2:02 PM GMT
Breeding wise this is pretty irrelevant - this will defo be older horses getting pick me ups / putting on condition / recovering from injury.

well not if the Barry Connells don't want it, there's a huge concentration of numbers in a few hands and them making a stand can stop that practice.

And if it's in one part of the game, the suspicion will always be where does it start and stop ?
Report potentialmillionaire February 21, 2014 2:04 PM GMT
Yer ma, more erudite than me as ever.

Still cannot see why steroids to jumping geldings knocks on to the breeding and sales scene.

There are trainers who will do all sorts to get ahead but I think that people will make their own judgments as to how this affects the after sales market and this is not a 'breeding' issue.

No industry is completely straight and people realise that and act accordingly. A gelding on steroids reflect very badly on a trainer. Not on the farms that produce them.
Report ffs February 21, 2014 2:18 PM GMT
A gelding on steroids reflect very badly on a trainer. Not on the farms that produce them.

Ireland, basically, is a farm. Once you have doping in the system the racing results are questioned. If somewhere else is clean, then go there because no-one wants to be ripped off. Barry Connell made a stand which highlights that Ireland doesn't condone doping. That our results are legit. For that he should be applauded by breeders who need their prog results to stand up to scrutiny.
Report Posh Paddy February 22, 2014 8:57 PM GMT
Before everyone gets on their high horse about steroids in the UK and Ireland just remember this.  In the US and Australia (until 1 May 2014) anabolic steroids are permitted out of training.

Therefore it is conceivable that horses purchased in those countries as foals, yearlings, 2 yo's, older horses etc and raced in the UK and Ireland have at some point been given anabolic steroids and these horses have raced legitimately here without anyone so much as raising an eyebrow.Blush

I'm sure we can all think of quite a few good horses over the years that would fall into this category (Horse from US/Aus racing in the UK, that is.  I'm not suggesting every horse that ever came from the US/Aus was given steroids).

From 1 May, the US will be the only place where you can go a get yourself a racehorse that has been given every performance enhancing steroid under the sun outside of training and you are not breaking the rules.

As breeders when selecting a stallion it may be worth considering the above.  For example if selecting a sire that was a good 2yo, was he good because he was good or because he was given a performance enhancing steroid before he raced as a 2 yo in the UK?

I know the BHA are aware of the issue but what can they do?  Ban all US / AUS bred horses from racing in the UK?  With the commercial pressures of the industry and the fact it could start a trade war I'm not sure that they can do it.  Equally with UK racing trying to encourage horses from this jurisdictions to Royal Ascot this would stop that in it's tracks.

Food for thought.Confused
Report ffs February 23, 2014 6:59 AM GMT
very good points PP,

I'd add to that a noteworthy case in Big Brown, who was a high-profile beneficiary of the lax rules on steroids in the U.S.

In the years since he's gone to stud (as a double classic winner), he's dropped in price from 65 to 10 k US$

ok it's only one sample but it's a drastic loss of confidence for such a great racehorse.

HH the Aga Khan put the argument that without eliminating anabolic steroids from all TBs at all stages the GSB in generations would be dominated by horses who simply 'respond' better to drugs.

I don't know what's happening with Big Brown but he's not passing on much of anything, and that does undermine confidence in the whole U.S. system.
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