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Johnny_Mustang
16 Oct 13 19:36
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Date Joined: 18 Feb 07
| Topic/replies: 3,650 | Blogger: Johnny_Mustang's blog
Gentlemen, shall we put them all on one thread? What are we to make of Havana Gold?
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Report The Gotchee October 16, 2013 9:45 PM BST
He was bought as a yearling by Amanda Skeffington, who in the space of 6 weeks also bought Toronado. That is sensational,well done Amanda.
Very little black type in his pedigree and family not precocious.
He did very well to win a poor Group 1 as a 3 year old.
Not for me..............................................................
Report Johnny_Mustang October 17, 2013 6:28 AM BST
And we'd better add Finjaan to the list.
Report potentialmillionaire October 17, 2013 1:36 PM BST
Please feel free to post Lairy Mary.

I believe johnnymustang  is the nom de plume of John Mcrirrick so we need to forgive him his misogyny Laugh

Thanks for starting this post J M, I've been meaning to do something similar so as you've done it I thought I'd better give it a go!

Havana. A 116 rated Jean Prat winner. The Jean Prat must be consistently one of the worst gp 1 races in the calendar and this fellow is no exception. Pedigree nothing to write home about either.
Pluses; Mrs Skiffington. She buys a glamourous smart type of horse so maybe he is of the same ilk which is a good place to start. Venue. Has to be a major plus right now too.

Finjaan has always been a horse I felt deserved a berth but I had rather given up hope and I don't know how inclined I am to rekindle things now. A he is a product of a popular sireline he might just be in with a squeak but a new stud sort of cancels that out rather doesn't it?
As with the above horse he is worth an inspection and then whether to fall for them will be the conundrum. I think I would rather hate them though and then move on.

Reckless Abandon. I feel he has a good profile and if I had a sane mare who I could ship to Ireland and I liked him on inspection then perhaps he is a goer. Certainly the front runner JM as you suggested elsewhere.

I have not given matings much thought and I am rather going to need to see what December sales brings as finances are tight right now. Thanks to a good year on the track though I've got a few mares who would be worth a bit of a dabble  - but how the hell are we going to find value next spring. I'm dreading the release of fees. And I'm certainly not going to get sucked into fees set on the strength of the sales ring if I am not sure the exploits of said sire's progeny on the track provides sufficient back up.
Report roadrunner46 October 17, 2013 1:54 PM BST
think havana gold did very well on the racetrack, nearly won another group 1 race, just being headed last 75 yards and was only
a neck behind the smart intello in that race, jockey error in that race was a possibility, teofilo bloodlines are very progressive
IMO. then again dont really know what im talking about.Wink
Report David Fishwick Minibus Sales October 17, 2013 5:08 PM BST
Novellist to Japan
Report Johnny_Mustang October 17, 2013 7:53 PM BST
Thanks for those kind words PotM!

Agree entirely with you about the Jean Prat, it's a cheap G1. Also Havana Gold isn't a giveaway at £8.5K is he?

We need to add Animal Kingdom to this list too, but for all his heroics on the track I can't have him at all. And I suspect he'll tread a very similar path to Shirocco, a few seasons in Newmarket before being shipped to mainland Europe.
Report potentialmillionaire October 17, 2013 9:18 PM BST
Am I missing summ't? AK is a kentuckyer is he not?

I think Havana Gold is plenty at 8.5 but as I mentioned earlier, I think that fees are going to be high in an awful lot of cases so that H G with 1st season cachet and a good stud probably won't look too bad.

I think that I would be a Soft Falling Rain sort it usual checks come up to scratch. However Hamdan seems to have a Gp1 sort of thing going on for Nunnery so if that doesn't happen perhaps Derrinstown will get him.

Ireland seems to have the whip hand again at the 'commercial' end. Cheveley do a good job at keeping apace but they just get over excited at fee setting time!
Report truehoncho October 19, 2013 2:37 PM BST
Finjaan may have deserved a berth once upon a time but I think that bird has flown. Has not won in his last 23 races and I can't see what appeal he would have to anyone buying a yearling.

Have Darley not got anything they could retire to Newmarket for 5 or 6k that could be attractive?
Report truehoncho October 19, 2013 4:01 PM BST
Could Mukhadram be of interest if they retired him this year? (this was posted before the champion stakes)
Report Jezebel October 19, 2013 5:25 PM BST
JM, are you thinking of AK's sire, Leroidesanimaux?

Dawn Approach to  Kildangan for 2014.
Report truehoncho October 19, 2013 7:51 PM BST
George Vancouver to France. A long way for a walk in but you could get your stud fee back importing a litre or two of your favourite tipple!!
Report potentialmillionaire October 19, 2013 8:30 PM BST
Truehonch I am completely respecting your Finjaan scenario but if one is determined to go UK cheap 1st seasoner, the alternatives are not outing themselves thick and fast! I would imagine I am going to come to your conclusions too but FAST COMPANY I say again!
How the hell did he emerge? Well we know the answer, because they looked the part, does Finjaan  not stand an inkling, in the same vein?

Dawn Approach is and shall remain the hot ticket for next year.

Farhh. I'm not dismissing him for a moment. A very very good racehorse from his very 1st appearance at 2.
Might the soundness issues and Pivotal keep him affordable?
Report truehoncho October 19, 2013 8:50 PM BST
PotM, you are right about lack of options and possibilities lurk in the darkest of corners. I see you sidestepped my Mukhadram enquiry. Is he a little too far out of the box?
Report Posh Paddy October 20, 2013 1:36 PM BST
If you're talking about what is cheap and lurking in the darkest corners then I can see something like Fulbright appearing at Nunnery.
Report Jezebel October 20, 2013 4:56 PM BST
Intello to Cheveley Park for 2014 and 2015 before moving to Haras du Quesnay in 2016.
Report yer ma October 20, 2013 5:56 PM BST
25k! Too much sherry.  Lots to like and great pedigree but has a stallion who never won a group race in UK/Ire ever stood for so much in Uk/Ire.   Lawman nearest at 25k Euro but did anyone pay that?

You just know Farhh will be too high at 12-15k ish.  Pivotal will this year post its lowest yearling median in 10 years.
Report truehoncho October 20, 2013 6:31 PM BST
Posh Paddy, I thought they may have retired Fulbright last year and looked out for him. I thought he would suit me quite well. He hasn't had a great year but if you are right he might still be ok for me.

He is loaded with Northern Dancer, a bit like Captain Gerrard and you could get a speedy type from him (or a headbanger!!)
Report Wilycayote October 20, 2013 7:06 PM BST
Reading through all these posts, and thinking through what new stallions have been announced for next year, its seems increasingly obvious that there is a lack of cheap speed around for 2014.

Reckless Abandon going to Ireland, but for us in GB im not happy with Finjaan! We could do with a Zebedee / Kodiac type over here to help us make an easy buck at the foal sales.
Report truehoncho October 20, 2013 7:28 PM BST
couldn't we ever Wilycayote.
Report truehoncho October 20, 2013 7:35 PM BST
have we got a fee for Leroidesanimaux yet?
Report perrydinho October 20, 2013 8:50 PM BST
Intello for £25k to Cheveley Park for 2014
seems expensive but if it was good enough for Makfi its probably a bargain
Report potentialmillionaire October 20, 2013 9:11 PM BST
Age catches up, doesn't it yer ma. I would imagine Danehill Dancer is heading for a low sales count and he is of the same vintage as Pivotal. W grow a little bored commercially
Report potentialmillionaire October 20, 2013 9:20 PM BST
If I can cope with a son of Pivotal then I imagine I will be quite grateful if Dad's old hattedness helps keep Farhh's fee down a bit.
Wily, I. Suppose even the Irish boys aren't coming up with a deluge of new types this year and they certainly have a greater history than we do don't they.

(Apols for the split post!)
Report Johnny_Mustang October 21, 2013 12:20 PM BST
He's slipped so far off the radar I almost forgot about him. Camelot.
Report Wilycayote October 21, 2013 12:57 PM BST
Can someone clever please put together a total list of new stallions for GB & Ireland. Every time I think of it I miss a few off!

would have forgotten Camelot myself. wonder if there will be any sneaky 2yo's retired (I'm not a big fan of that though).
Report potentialmillionaire October 21, 2013 1:49 PM BST
Is St Nicholas Abbey definitely a goer at Coolmore for 2014?

It seems that Camelot, Pour Moi and St Nick would be slightly counter productive n'est pas?

I agree with you wily, I reckon the Irish usuals will be scouring the 2yo results sheets as we speak. The dearth of commercials must be filled somehow.
Report Lairy Mary October 21, 2013 5:31 PM BST
Already mentioned on another thread is Lethal Force and I gather North Light is returning to the UK to stand at Lanwades alongside Lesroidesanimaux.

And of course there's Al Kazeem who goes to Sandringham.  And what do we make of Society Rock?
Report proxygene October 21, 2013 6:09 PM BST
Dunaden for an almost guaranteed but solitary buyer?
Report truehoncho October 21, 2013 6:56 PM BST
Am I wrong to consider North Light at £6k?

Could a nice strong colt by him have some appeal? He may not have as many yearlings as some of the more commercial types but at least he's proven. Proven sires do still have some appeal don't they?
Report Lairy Mary October 21, 2013 7:39 PM BST
I personally loved the horse - he was never happy on the firm ground at the Curragh but still ran well enough in the Arc.  Very odd to stand him in North America, IMO, but if I was in the position (and I have zero experience compared to most on this forum), I'd take the punt.
Report Johnny_Mustang October 22, 2013 7:27 AM BST
Honcho, if you're breeding to race there's nothing wrong with North Light, I personally loved him as a racehorse.

Commercially however, he's going to be a disaster. OK, it was slightly odd that he went to stud in the States in the first place, I'm not sure they 'get' Danehills, particularly Derby-winning Danehills. There's no way he should be standing at £6,000, even at half that price he'd be expensive. Let's face it, he's a jumps sire waiting to happen. And in the sales ring, lifetime only 56% of his yearling progeny have sold for an average of just over £10,000. This is a stallion who got a Leger winner in his first crop - tantamount to commercial suicide. I don't want to encourage race-fixing, but Arctic Cosmos's jockey should have taken a dive at the furlong pole at Doncaster and jumped off, therefore expunging a Leger victory from North Light's stud record.
Report truehoncho October 22, 2013 12:35 PM BST
JM, I think in this case head should rule the heart. LM I do have a NH mare here and if NL ever gets down to JM's proposed fee I think I might well use him.

back to the drawing board. I am still very keen on taking a chance with Showcasing in his 4th season.
Report potentialmillionaire October 22, 2013 1:33 PM BST
Beggar, Feck, Golly and Holy me.

17500 for Leroidesanimeaux.

I need a stiff drink after my Lanwades Letter. . .
Report Johnny_Mustang October 22, 2013 1:59 PM BST
Don't panic PotM, that's obviously a mistake. Lanwades clearly forgot to add that it's 17,500 SEK (Swedish Krona) which at today's rate is £1696.
Report potentialmillionaire October 22, 2013 2:29 PM BST
Thank heavens, johnny.m. for your insight and intellect!

I can rest easy now that little currency oversight has been explained.

I thought for one minute that Leroi would just be covering the 5 mares this year and that all their initials would be Al Shocked

Cityscape to Overbury is another from the left field is he not.
Report Johnny_Mustang October 22, 2013 2:40 PM BST
Seriously though PotM is he really that price? That's flipping bonkers if he is. Cityscape will be a useless stallion in my humble opinion too.
Report potentialmillionaire October 22, 2013 2:48 PM BST
I have just been on Overbury's website and watched the Delegator video again. I have my share of concerns over him, but it is a good vid and the fact is, he was a better bet last season than anything crawling out of the woodwork this. I'm just about to go and see my mare in foal to him and give her a carrot!

I am very happy to use Simon Sweeting for matters of geography if nothing else so I am reluctant to dismiss Cityscape in one fell swoop. If it was a normal '1st season' though, I would surely have swooped with a fell for him by now. I will see him and then study the facts though first.
Report potentialmillionaire October 22, 2013 2:48 PM BST
Leroi. Utter madness.
Report truehoncho October 22, 2013 3:56 PM BST
Leroy does seem a lot, even for a novice like myself. He will be competing with some fairly decent stallions. I (probably wrongly) had him in the Peintre Celebre bracket (by the way at less than £10k I think he's good value if you have the right mare).

I have got down to Showcasing or Delegator for one of my mares. I'm glad you are happy with your cover PotM. I doubt there will be a usable 1st seasoner in my bracket.
Report Posh Paddy October 22, 2013 8:33 PM BST
Khalid Abdulla has retained al of 5 breeding rights to Cityscape - hardly a ringing endorsement is it.

Declaration of War to retire to stud after the Breeders Cup. Interesting to see what price they pitch him at - 20K - 25K maybe ?? I was at Newbury and Goodwood this year and did I take a picture of him? Nope because that would have been usefulCry.  Dam is a half sister to a Belmont winner and has bred some other decent ish offspring. Interesting.
Report yer ma October 23, 2013 12:29 PM BST
Looking pretty dire in the sub 10k bracket whilst there is an abundance of choice (some wiser than others I suggest) in the 20-40k.  Camelot, Al K, Dec of War, Intello, Dawn App vs Society Rock, Havana Gold, Finjaan...

Going to need some inspired first 2yo season gamble I fear.
Report Johnny_Mustang October 23, 2013 1:01 PM BST
I'm pretty sure Red Jazz is retiring to Ireland next year.
Report potentialmillionaire October 23, 2013 1:54 PM BST
Red Jazz?!

Holy cow, if something does emerge from the woodwork, they are gonna be knocked over in the rush.

I don't think I'm going to play the 25 k market but I agree with yer ma, it is looking much more promising.

I'm keen on Declaration of War, but if his fee is workable so will 200 others.

I can feel,a,new thread coming on. . .
Report potentialmillionaire October 25, 2013 1:22 PM BST
Well 18k then for Al Kazeem

Not much there to tempt a commercial breeder to take a chance on a huge backward unsound campaigner.
Report Wilycayote October 25, 2013 2:37 PM BST
Well....Red Jazz it is then!

this is going to be a tricky season for those of us that like to fish in the 4k-8k pool....
Report truehoncho October 25, 2013 3:19 PM BST
I don't fish in that pool Wilycayote, I eat, sleep and breath in it. Oh for the day my fins will evolve into little legs and I can crawl out of it.
Report Johnny_Mustang October 29, 2013 8:02 AM GMT
Swiss Spirit anyone?
Report Wilycayote October 29, 2013 8:17 AM GMT
I backed him in the Temple Stakes and couldnt believe how he nearly managed to win after getting poleaxed at the start, a serious effort that day. Shame he didnt get to train on next year, but will help keep him in my price bracket!

Always hoped I might pick up a mare/filly from a branch of his family, but by yesterday's prices for rubbish fillies I think I should keep dreaming.
Report truehoncho October 29, 2013 10:31 PM GMT
how much will Swiss Spirit be? They may have been planning to campaign him in G1's next
year but G3 is his level.

they have a few of books to fill at Whitsbury, all at similar prices. I have one that
would suit him and one for Showcasing. Would they deal? It was suggested that
Showcasing's price may rise.

Is Foxwedge going to be in demand with his sire not setting the world alight (yet).
Report Wilycayote October 29, 2013 11:12 PM GMT
I might have a cheap mare that suits Swiss Spirit (depending on his price). Get the feeling he fills the same kind of bracket as Kodiac/Zebedee in their first seasons, although it seems Timeform have him considerably above those two.

Lordship should support him which might also help long term?
Report proxygene October 30, 2013 10:50 AM GMT
I looked at Swiss Spirit on paper and he looks 20lbs worse as a 2yo than as a mature horse as do his siblings. He needed fairly specific circumstances to record only one or 2 good results. He might get a share of wins in first season but poss not class or precocity really, sounds a  bit like Sakhees Secret then.

Anyone know what he looks like?
Report Johnny_Mustang October 30, 2013 12:54 PM GMT
I've been told that Swiss Spirit will be very close to 5K.
Report Wilycayote October 30, 2013 2:32 PM GMT
Was hoping for 4k.

Proxygene, I take your point but you could say the same thing about Lethal Force, Mayson etc. I prefer horses like them that have proved they can mix it with top sprinters as a 3/4yo, than a Sir Prancelot type character who would probably not train on at all. WHat I like is both his sire (I.Spirit) and Damsire (I.RIdge) started at low fees and ended up champions.

Also thinking about Cityscape. The adverts say he's from the family of Redoute's Choice. Is this relevant or miles back on a different page?
Report proxygene October 30, 2013 3:08 PM GMT
Lethal force >100 RPR as a 2 year old, then top class later on multiple occasions so must be more expensive, Dark Angel will aid precocity.

Mayson just a bogtrotter. 

Think with my maiden couldn't risk an SS anyway but scratching around for something proven and 'sensible' let alone commercial.
Report truehoncho October 30, 2013 3:51 PM GMT
Proxygene

I don't think Kheleyf is bad value for a maiden mare. He does get plenty of winners and his yearlings will sell. He is at £5k but you will get him for £4k.
Report truehoncho October 30, 2013 3:51 PM GMT
Proxygene

I don't think Kheleyf is bad value for a maiden mare. He does get plenty of winners and his yearlings will sell. He is at £5k but you will get him for £4k.
Report proxygene October 30, 2013 4:14 PM GMT
Thats the current boy of choice but are they sane enough for a novice breeder and er sparky mare?
Report truehoncho October 30, 2013 4:54 PM GMT
The colt I bred last year was a proper Christian. never had a days problem with him. He was the first I'd bred. I suppose I could have been lucky but he had loads of viewings at the sale and his maiden mother was very moderately bred.

I know Kheleyf isn't everyone's cup of tea but I'm looking to buy one at the foal sale next month because I know plenty of small trainers will have him on their list. He is a cast iron proven getter of 2yo winners. At less than £5k who else is there?
Report truehoncho November 1, 2013 10:20 AM GMT
Swiss Spirit £4.5k. Is he a lot better than Red Jazz PotM? Are Whitsbury going to get knocked over in the rush?
Report Wilycayote November 1, 2013 11:05 AM GMT
Think they'll be busy enough at that, although I'll still expect to haggle.

My favourite stallion with first crop yearlings at the sales was Zebedee (Invincible Spirit) by a mile. I like the idea of going to a new son of I.S. before they run, especially since SS did actually get to compete against the top sprinters.

Dont think my budget can stretch to Reckless Abandon at 10E, especially factoring in the extra cost of travel to Ireland.
Report potentialmillionaire November 1, 2013 2:05 PM GMT

Nov 1, 2013 -- 11:20AM, truehoncho wrote:


Swiss Spirit £4.5k. Is he a lot better than Red Jazz PotM? Are Whitsbury going to get knocked over in the rush?


Truehoncho, while we are busy sucking in plankton in this very crowded pond we all fish in on this site we must give plenty of thought to the fact that plankton or it's freshwater alternative is in pretty short supply is it not!

I am as keen as the next man on a 1st season cheapy and like the foal/yearling market I don't see my interest peaking any time soon. I am sure that in normal circumstances I wouldn't  be paying Swiss Spirit much attention and if I may be so bold I am not sure that Whitsbury would be standing him either.

However:::

We can only work with what we are given and what with Whitsbury having a track record, Invincible Spirit having form (Zebedee) and a host of buyers who fish in our pool not going any where, then what are we supposed to do, abandon our ethos?

I have bred one Kheleyf and I think he is a fair shot at the money proxy. The filly was a little quirky and not very talented and I would certainly give thought to temperament issues although his colts are known to be more tractable.

Where is the recalcitrant Red Jazz right now? Not a chance of engendering interest in him unless the venue offers some bolster ( and virtually none even then, I'm afraid ).

Report Johnny_Mustang November 1, 2013 4:45 PM GMT
Red Jazz is at Ballyhane.
Report potentialmillionaire November 1, 2013 8:00 PM GMT
Th
Report potentialmillionaire November 1, 2013 8:40 PM GMT
Well that worked well!

Thanks JohnnyM for that. I feel nowadays that Ballyhane is very much an Irish Domain with not enough appeal for a UK breeder. The website is always out of date and there is not enough promo over here.
I wouldn't hesitate to use them for the right sire, but I'm not keen to go over for Red Jazz!
Mind you, hypocritical to the last I have Dandy on the radar. That's about as interesting fee announcement as any due, well that and Dark Angel!

Most Improved?

I wonder how much they paid for him because I sort of thought he would disappear without trace after his post 2012 st James's Palace disasters. Yet they are having a go. Is the Castle Hyde announcement a thinly veiled nod to 'dual purpose'? Whatever that means!
Report eastmond November 1, 2013 11:18 PM GMT
Pot M,word is that Dark Angel going to be around 25k. Any thoughts on where Mastercraftsmans fee will/should end up !
Report potentialmillionaire November 2, 2013 10:15 AM GMT
Thanks for that eastmond.

I'd better not spend too much time thinking about D A in case your sources are inaccurate although from your tone I suspect they won't be!

I think Mastercraftsmen deserves a hike but we shouldn't get too carried away as this 1st crop will be from decent enough mares and he really hasn't had a huge amount of goodwill subsequently. Things could tail off for him for a while now and I wouldn't want to be sitting on a very expensive pregnancy.
Report yer ma November 2, 2013 1:57 PM GMT
Mastercraftsman has a large whiff of HRE.  I nearly got him for 8k last year and still wouldnt pay 15k this year as the sales simply didnt stack up.  Looks like he'll get nice horses but people arent going to pay big bucks for more than a handful.   Big risk at 25k as you say PotM.  Would make Dawn Approach or Camelot at 25k seem like shooting rats in a barrel. 

Re. Ballyhane - I see they've now taken on a sales person but little story to back PotM and UK breeders theory.  Left numerous messages with them Jan / Feb no answer or call back.  Eventually had conversation about THREE mares - didnt call us back with offer.  'Bunch of boggers' was the colloquial phrase employed by my good wife.
Report potentialmillionaire November 2, 2013 3:24 PM GMT
yer ma, I'm worried we are in agreement too much at the moment Laugh

That Ballyhane story beggars belief though. I suppose in defence, the owner is a nice chap and well liked in the industry. A bit of goodwill perhaps makes up for some deficiencies.

If you've got a moment,
Where are you on Dandy?
Report eastmond November 2, 2013 4:40 PM GMT
Like previous posts have my doubts about mastercraftsman, but obviously merited some kinda increase and I certainly would have considered if could get for 15k (maybe even 20), however, according to dispatches now looks like we're going to have to go to 30k !!

Options getting more and more limited. Looks like we'll have to really look at new kids
Report yer ma November 3, 2013 12:05 PM GMT
As I alluded to I had (no aftertiming as mentioned this last year) suspicion Dandy Man would be ok and had a mare for him but clearly didn't happen (requinto instead).  Irrational but I cant convince myself to go back once a ship has sailed.  I also doubt many will train on / stay further to group class, its very interesting 3 of his best are with Fahey who doesnt leave much behind at 2. Overall he'd be risky at 8k esp for a filly but maybe they wont get greedy.

Final point (and I'll leave actual stats to the more dedicate responders) is this years first season havent exactly set any fires imo.  Interesting that last son of Mozart regarded as a flop had....17 first season winners, DM on that figure now.
Report potentialmillionaire November 3, 2013 3:29 PM GMT
A salient point on Amadeus Wolf. Very much a question of perception that one isn't it. Hopes so high for AW he would find it easy to disappoint and Dandy Man has perhaps climbed  the hill from the other direction giving a better impression with perhaps no better results.

Maybe Dandy Man is one to sit on the fence with for a bit longer.

I,ve got a youngish mare who has made a promising start but I would like to go proven this time as she has two by unproven in the pipeline so if she needs help for a runner I don't feel guilty that I haven't offered it.
Problem is that the goodish provens are in my opinion likely to be too expensive so I am thinking I should be looking to downgrade her to get a good match a la Prima Donna.
Problem is, of course I want the same bang for my few bucks as with the options costing a few more and it's difficult to catch them on the way up as we all know!
Report truehoncho November 3, 2013 6:34 PM GMT
yer
Report truehoncho November 3, 2013 6:39 PM GMT
whoops

Yer Ma, I think Requinto was well priced compared to some offerings this year. Swiss Spirit is the same price, I know who I'd prefer.
Report Wilycayote November 3, 2013 9:26 PM GMT
Requinto won the worst Gr2 ever, beating Burwaaz and Caladonia Lady, and wasnt even allowed to run as a 3yo. Swiss Spirit beat the likes of Reckless Abandon and Lethal Force in different races, I know which I prefer too!

I'm more mystified why 4 of the stallions at Lanwades are all at £6,000? or is there some benefit in doing this that I haven't been clever enough to think of!?
Report yer ma November 4, 2013 12:03 PM GMT
Requinto will do fine I'd say / hope.  He looks good, he's from a fast & precocious family and I didnt pay the headline price.  Can't really compare 2yo group races to old sprinters stakes racing imo.  One could say Swiss Spirit's last group place was is a very ropy Grp2 but basically most group sprints are 100+ handicaps    First season Swiss Spirit vs 2nd season Requinto I'd probably side with the later assuming he looks ok (which I don't know).
Report yer ma November 4, 2013 12:27 PM GMT
btw 7.5k for Camacho.  Can you imagine what he covered in the last two years.   For the olders observers...Re. Dark Angel (and the Darley boys too) - is this outlandish increasing in fees a new thing?   The disconnect between the fee and the likely price for a yearling (historically let alone in 2 years) is amazing.
Report potentialmillionaire November 4, 2013 1:52 PM GMT
I was pleasantly surprised by the picture of Requinto on the website yer ma.

He didn't float my boat for one reason or another but he certainly has a strong commercial look about him with scope for a really bull like sales horse. I am guessing you are all but done with fillies right now so I hope that bit goes right for you at least!

27500 for Dark Angel is about where I thought they'd be. He does though seem to have a propensity for producing a ropey looking horse as well as the obvious sale topper and it's not a median that stands any close inspection, however much the journo's insist on ignoring it and quoting a usually misleading average.

The gap between disappointment and success (which in fairness Dark Angel won't be too vulnerable to) is pretty unwieldy in a horse like Camacho for sure. I think he has promise but is anyone brave enought to trust in him for the future when as yer ma says the gap to make up is Grand Canyon sized.
Report Prima Donna November 4, 2013 2:10 PM GMT
Swiss Spirit 1st season, providing he gets good sorts, will be commercial,no doubt about that.Personally I'd use him over Requinto even if they were starting off together and most certainly over a cheap 2nd season Coolmore horse which is always dodgy ground. Swiss Spirit is a great looking horse.....as we endlessly say that's half the battle. With commercial nous the fact he is a son of Invincible Spirit would be a huge advantage,definite momentum behind that sire and plenty going for his sons as well. Play that against Requinto, think back to the last atypical 2yo son of Dansili who also retired to Coolmore. Who would want a 2nd crop Strategic Prince over a 1st crop Zebedee?
Report potentialmillionaire November 4, 2013 6:17 PM GMT
I'm pleased you've seen Swiss Spirit Prima as I am now hanging on your every word on the matter. He certainly looks as if he might be nice from the website but obviously when you are snorkelling through the murky depths the last thing you need is a ropey looker!
I don't really trust his pedigree one bit, but as we always say, a pedigree has to start somewhere and his has certainly been nice and current.
Report jmc27 November 4, 2013 11:50 PM GMT
I wouldnt be surprised if Declaration of War stays in the US. War Front is in crazy demand there and Joseph Allen has some decent mares in the states that he sends to War Front ever year that he could divert also you have the Claiborne connection. But Im presuming since Claiborne syndicate their sires Coolmore have a share in War Front as they are chummy chummy, heres his mares from last year (copied this to notepad  off a forum a few weeks back cant rem which one, plenty of Coolmore mares in there)

All For Georgia
All For Thee
All Her Class
Along (IRE)
Alternate
Altesse
Aqsaam
Aruna
Ask the Moon
Azzedine
Ballet Pacifica
Baroness Richter (IRE)
Bauble Queen
Bel Air Beauty
Betterbetterbetter (IRE)
Charming (has a 2013 War Front filly)
City Sister (has a 2013 War Front colt)
Communique
Dawn Chorus
Dazzling Song
Divine Escapade (has a 2013 War Front colt)
Doo Lang
Extent
Flying Passage (her 2012 MDO filly just sold for $1.5m at Keeneland Sept sale)
For All You Do
Forty Moves
Gilt (has a 2013 War Front filly)
Gold Vault (dam of Contested, has a 2011 War Front colt named Mosler, and a 2013 War Front colt)
Good Vibes (has 2013 War Front filly)
Gotta Have Her
Hightap (has a 2013 War Front colt)
Hit It Rich
Homebound (has a 2013 War Front filly named House of Dixie)
Hostess
Imagine (IRE) (has a 2013 War Front colt)
Kissed (IRE)
La Conseillante (has a 2012 War Front colt named War Envoy and a 2013 War Front filly)
Lauren Byrd
Leave
Liscanna (IRE) (has a 2013 War Front colt)
Louve Des Reves (IRE) (has a 2013 War Front colt)
Magnificent Honour (dam is full sister to Rags to Riches and has a 2013 War Front colt)
Maryfield
Matlacha Pass
Meghan's Joy (has a 2013 War Front filly)
Might (has a 2013 War Front colt)
Miss Seffens
Misty For Me (IRE)
Mona de Momma
Mutually Benefit
My Annette (has 2012 War Front colt named Flag Officer and a 2013 War Front colt named Revolutionary War)
Orate (has a 2012 War Front colt and a 2013 War Front filly)
Pachattack
Photograph (has a 2012 War Front colt named War Dispatch and a 2013 War Front colt named George Patton)
Playa Maya (dam of Uncle Mo)
Praise (had a War Front colt in 2013)
Principal Role
Protesting
Queen of the Night (GB) (has 2013 War Front colt)
Questress (has 2012 War Front colt)
Quiet Now
Rainbow View
Refugee
River Belle (GB)
Royal Decree
Santa Catarina (has 2013 War Front filly)
Sarah's Secret
Sarayir
Satan's Quick Chick
Shared Hope
Sightseek
Silk and Scarlet (GB)
Siren Serenade
Soul Search
Spain (has 2013 colt by War Front)
State
Stone Hope
Strike the Bell
Strike the Sky
Sugar Canyon
Take Charge Lady (dam of Take Charge Indy and Will Take Charge, just had the sale topper filly by Indian Charlie sell for $2.2m, had a 2013 War Front filly)
Tare Green (has 2013 War Front filly)
Tempo West (dam of Declaration of War(by War Front), 2013 full sibling to DoW filly named Front Page News )
Time Control (GB)
Together (IRE)
True Gritz
Up (IRE)
Upperline
Volga (IRE)
Wading (IRE)
Wend (has a 2013 War Front colt)
Wild Poppy
Witty (is a half-sister to Dubai World Cup (UAE-I) winner Well Armed, she has a 2013 War Front colt)
Zenyatta
Our Georgia (also covered by Arch)
Greenery (also covered by Blame)
Binya (GER) (also covered by Giant's Causeway)
Report jmc27 November 5, 2013 5:25 PM GMT
Sorry to hijack this thread but I see Betterbetterbetter who is on that list I pasted sold for $5.2 million last night.
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