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Forget Galileo for a minute! I said try to forget him for a minute! 
I just dug out the dvd of last year's Coventry Stakes, and here is a fair transcription of the interview between Rishi Persad and Jim Bolger, after Dawn Approach had won :
Rishi: Jim...the horse is one that you've always thought a lot of...you've been quoted...you've said...you've said this is the best two year old you've ever trained --
Jim: No no, I didn't say that - I said, "He's as good as I've had."
Rishi: Expand a little bit more on what his qualities are...
Jim: Ah sure, he has everything - he has pace and stamina, he has the looks and the temperament - there are no holes in this fella.
Rishi: And would he have the speed for a 2000 Guineas and perhaps go a little bit further...?
Jim: I don't see him going beyond a mile. That'll do me. Yeah...the signs say he'll only stay a mile.
Rishi: And how proud are you to have trained a horse like him, having trained his father?
Jim: I don't do pride because I'm aware of the consequences.
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Rishi then asked Jim Bolger about the possible sale of the horse and he replied that he'd have to consider it, to keep the show on the road, if he received an offer he couldn't refuse.
By the way, Clare Balding also gave Mr. Magnier a perfect opportunity to boast and crow today, and he showed his wisdom by turning it down flat. IMO opinion, these guys are diamonds in victory and defeat. There might only be three maxims now, in racing: i) Never under-estimate the Irish...ii) Never over-estimate the Irish...iii) Don't forget Galileo for a minute.
P.S. Do you do Pride?
I just dug out the dvd of last year's Coventry Stakes, and here is a fair transcription of the interview between Rishi Persad and Jim Bolger, after Dawn Approach had won :
Rishi: Jim...the horse is one that you've always thought a lot of...you've been quoted...you've said...you've said this is the best two year old you've ever trained --
Jim: No no, I didn't say that - I said, "He's as good as I've had."
Rishi: Expand a little bit more on what his qualities are...
Jim: Ah sure, he has everything - he has pace and stamina, he has the looks and the temperament - there are no holes in this fella.
Rishi: And would he have the speed for a 2000 Guineas and perhaps go a little bit further...?
Jim: I don't see him going beyond a mile. That'll do me. Yeah...the signs say he'll only stay a mile.
Rishi: And how proud are you to have trained a horse like him, having trained his father?
Jim: I don't do pride because I'm aware of the consequences.
--------------------------------------------------
Rishi then asked Jim Bolger about the possible sale of the horse and he replied that he'd have to consider it, to keep the show on the road, if he received an offer he couldn't refuse.
By the way, Clare Balding also gave Mr. Magnier a perfect opportunity to boast and crow today, and he showed his wisdom by turning it down flat. IMO opinion, these guys are diamonds in victory and defeat. There might only be three maxims now, in racing: i) Never under-estimate the Irish...ii) Never over-estimate the Irish...iii) Don't forget Galileo for a minute.
P.S. Do you do Pride?
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Yeah, when you past post it then it looks silly.
you could argue that he did not settle rather than did not stay.
New Approach has just had an Oaks winner and a Derby second.... and connections just had to take a shot at a (weakish) Derby IMHO as he was staying on strongly in the 2000g....
What will be interesting is where he goes next.
you could argue that he did not settle rather than did not stay.New Approach has just had an Oaks winner and a Derby second.... and connections just had to take a shot at a (weakish) Derby IMHO as he was staying on strongly in the 2000g....
What will be interesting is where he goes next.
Back to 1 mile for Dawn Approach, Jim did give him an entry for the Sussex stakes recently.
It wasn't Dawn Approach that ran in the Derby......it was.......RELAGATE....!! 
http://www.scarletthillfarm.com/RelagateTB.asp
http://www.scarletthillfarm.com/RelagateTB.asp
Did Equinome not tell Jim Bolger that Dawn Approach wouldn't stay? If he had any confidence in Equinome he would not have run it in the Derby.
It's a black and white old world that you live in the Gotchee!
I suppose that as a horse that has looked rock solid temperament wise they just thought he would settle off a slow pace or a quick one. A pacemaker might have been a good idea but it wouild have been hard to get the field to ignore Aidan's 3 and go at the correct Dawn Approach tempo.
I wouldn't rule out another crack at a mile and a half, if the Arc looks full of pace then maybe. But realistically it ain't going to happen because they have big temperament issues to work on now and another crawling race they cannot risk.
Sadly though it has been seen by one and all as a way to beat him and that might have repercussions wherever and whatever he gets up to next.
I suppose that as a horse that has looked rock solid temperament wise they just thought he would settle off a slow pace or a quick one. A pacemaker might have been a good idea but it wouild have been hard to get the field to ignore Aidan's 3 and go at the correct Dawn Approach tempo.
I wouldn't rule out another crack at a mile and a half, if the Arc looks full of pace then maybe. But realistically it ain't going to happen because they have big temperament issues to work on now and another crawling race they cannot risk.
Sadly though it has been seen by one and all as a way to beat him and that might have repercussions wherever and whatever he gets up to next.
they have ruined that horse's reputation running in the derby, foolish to think that had any chance at 12f.
makes you realize how clever and smart,sir henry cecil and connections managed THE GREATEST FRANKEL'S racing
career. most form students gave dawn approach no chance of winning the derby, that was before you included
the breeding side of things. shame that the race is being ruined by so many runners form one trainer AOB,
first time ive seen evidence with my own eyes how they are spoiling that great race.
makes you realize how clever and smart,sir henry cecil and connections managed THE GREATEST FRANKEL'S racing
career. most form students gave dawn approach no chance of winning the derby, that was before you included
the breeding side of things. shame that the race is being ruined by so many runners form one trainer AOB,
first time ive seen evidence with my own eyes how they are spoiling that great race.
So road runner they were 1) 'foolish to think that he had any chance at 12 furlongs'.
2) 'form students gave Dawn Approach no chance of winning the derby'
and 3)'including the breeding side of things'
Sounds like if everyone expected the result they got, why on earth should any reputations be ruined?
His rating will be comfortably above that of the Derby winner on anyones figures and his popularity and earning capacity at stud will likely eclipse R of the W's too.
Don't feel to sorry for the horse. . .
2) 'form students gave Dawn Approach no chance of winning the derby'
and 3)'including the breeding side of things'
Sounds like if everyone expected the result they got, why on earth should any reputations be ruined?
His rating will be comfortably above that of the Derby winner on anyones figures and his popularity and earning capacity at stud will likely eclipse R of the W's too.
Don't feel to sorry for the horse. . .
dont feel sorry for the horse, but they are ruining the derby race, no trainer should be able to train half the field
and play games like they did, spoiled that race for all horse racing fans, of the world, that horse will always be
remembered for the derby flop now. FWIW i tipped libertarian for the derby at 20/1 and could tell dawn approach
wouldnt be a derby horse, the formbook is there for all to interpret, like i say breeding was conclusive proof,
and im no expert when it comes to breeding. pocket talking over. find a horse with gears for next seasons derby
and play games like they did, spoiled that race for all horse racing fans, of the world, that horse will always be
remembered for the derby flop now. FWIW i tipped libertarian for the derby at 20/1 and could tell dawn approach
wouldnt be a derby horse, the formbook is there for all to interpret, like i say breeding was conclusive proof,
and im no expert when it comes to breeding. pocket talking over. find a horse with gears for next seasons derby
Just how did Ballydoyle/Coolmore ruin the Derby by breeding and then training enough good horses to run in the Derby vs someone who has overseen drugging of his horses, had vast resources but still failed to produce a contender and then had to buy himself one who then failed to handle one of the many tests in the derby which has made it such a great race over the years
people should laud the county Tipp lads for the high quality horses they produce year in year out and compare that to the utter waste of resources that is Godolphin
people should laud the county Tipp lads for the high quality horses they produce year in year out and compare that to the utter waste of resources that is Godolphin
Can't see how his reputation was ruined. He was a cracking good two year old, on the go the whole season, and an easy winner of the 2000 Guineas. So he's not Mill Reef...without Coolmore the Derby would have been bloody awful this year.
Actually Roadrunner, I think that not running Frankel in the US was not particularly well managed just well avoided to keep an unbeaten tag (you could probably argue there were other challenges for him aswell). F isn't in my book as the greatest ever simply because for me the greatest ever will probably have had to win a Derby or an Arc or travel to take on the best in the same vain as Black Caviar.
I think it was well justified to run DA in the Derby, he has lost very little in defeat. It was the right thing for Coolmore to do, to test any opposition to the hilt. This is where true champions come from. They couldn't beat New Approach or Sea the Stars and they are a couplke of champions.
I think it was well justified to run DA in the Derby, he has lost very little in defeat. It was the right thing for Coolmore to do, to test any opposition to the hilt. This is where true champions come from. They couldn't beat New Approach or Sea the Stars and they are a couplke of champions.
they were running scared, thats why the slow pace was on, wasnt dawn approach they feared it was probably liberatarian,
with a steady pace throughout the race, that might of beaten the winner, would of been finishing fast as theirs would of
been slowing down, will never know, couldnt run their horses normally, so worried they wont get the winner of the derby
and end up with egg on their faces. let the horses run on merits, had enough runners, they didnt because they were scared.
frankel didnt need to go the us or win a derby or arc, take alook at those races now, their crap races at moment.
sir henry cecil is alot more smarter than your average trainer, who would go for everything, years of training told
him, dont try and turn frankel into something its not a 12f horse, we will never know if he could of won a derby.
agree maybe the horses reputation is not ruined, still doesnt change the fact, horse should never of run in that derby.
how many derby winners start of as sprinters, cant train horse a certain way, then expect the horse to change its style
to run middle distance races, sir henry cecil understood that,suppose thats why frankel never went beyond 10f.
thanks for all replys, very interesting theorys. will agree to disgree on somethings
with a steady pace throughout the race, that might of beaten the winner, would of been finishing fast as theirs would of
been slowing down, will never know, couldnt run their horses normally, so worried they wont get the winner of the derby
and end up with egg on their faces. let the horses run on merits, had enough runners, they didnt because they were scared.
frankel didnt need to go the us or win a derby or arc, take alook at those races now, their crap races at moment.
sir henry cecil is alot more smarter than your average trainer, who would go for everything, years of training told
him, dont try and turn frankel into something its not a 12f horse, we will never know if he could of won a derby.
agree maybe the horses reputation is not ruined, still doesnt change the fact, horse should never of run in that derby.
how many derby winners start of as sprinters, cant train horse a certain way, then expect the horse to change its style
to run middle distance races, sir henry cecil understood that,suppose thats why frankel never went beyond 10f.
thanks for all replys, very interesting theorys. will agree to disgree on somethings
We are in danger of getting overwhelmed by foreign competition in our Group races. It used to be just the Irish and French to worry about but recently the German horses are winning good races and of course the Aussies have the sprinters. On top of that the Americans are eying up Royal Ascot. Oh dear.
From Wiki : "Dr. Fager was known for his duels with Damascus at Aqueduct Racetrack. Damascus's connections took to entering a "rabbit" to engage Dr. Fager in a speed duel, knowing that Dr. Fager could not be rated by his jockey. In four meetings between the two Hall of Famers, Damascus took two races (both times using the "rabbit" strategy) and Dr. Fager took two..."
You still get American racing fans vehemently arguing about this stuff, decades later...but surely, if a horse is a genuine champion, he has to overcome all sorts of pace scenarios and "random" stuff that happens during races...
Two famous quotes come to mind: "There is nothing new under the sun..." and "Time and chance happen to all..."
You still get American racing fans vehemently arguing about this stuff, decades later...but surely, if a horse is a genuine champion, he has to overcome all sorts of pace scenarios and "random" stuff that happens during races...
Two famous quotes come to mind: "There is nothing new under the sun..." and "Time and chance happen to all..."
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