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28 Feb 13
19:51
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Date Joined:
17 Mar 10
Having just taken delivery of my first foal of the year i once again find myself in a pickle!
Apols. to those that don't follow the practical side of things and apols. to those that are too busy with their own stud season too!
Said foal 2 1/2 weeks early born in abject squalor (well hopefully you all understand the mud around
) and probably 4 or 5 hours before it was discovered.
In my defence, and I know I need a bit here, I was busy with two overdue mares and this was out of the blue completely unawares.
Smallish but perfectly viable foal but it doesn't do standing up. 3 loads of stomach tubed colostrum/milk over the 1st night didn't bring much improvement so it is now at the vets with a catheter and a LOT of fluid has it properly hydrated. It apparently will drink some of the time quite successfully from a bottle and can just about stand unaided but getting up remains a no no and coordinating drinking from the mare and being held in the right place isn't a goer yet either.
Despite all it's IGG transfer is successful. And it looks as a type healthier than it's current aptitude would suggest. Back end is weaker than the front incidentally.
The mare always foals a little early.
Here we are Thursday 8.00 pm and we were born Tuesday midday (I suppose)
Improvement is real, but painfully slow. Will we get there or not?
Many thanks, in advance, if anyone has any anecdotes ofcourse I'd be really grateful.
Apols. to those that don't follow the practical side of things and apols. to those that are too busy with their own stud season too!
Said foal 2 1/2 weeks early born in abject squalor (well hopefully you all understand the mud around
) and probably 4 or 5 hours before it was discovered.In my defence, and I know I need a bit here, I was busy with two overdue mares and this was out of the blue completely unawares.
Smallish but perfectly viable foal but it doesn't do standing up. 3 loads of stomach tubed colostrum/milk over the 1st night didn't bring much improvement so it is now at the vets with a catheter and a LOT of fluid has it properly hydrated. It apparently will drink some of the time quite successfully from a bottle and can just about stand unaided but getting up remains a no no and coordinating drinking from the mare and being held in the right place isn't a goer yet either.
Despite all it's IGG transfer is successful. And it looks as a type healthier than it's current aptitude would suggest. Back end is weaker than the front incidentally.
The mare always foals a little early.
Here we are Thursday 8.00 pm and we were born Tuesday midday (I suppose
)Improvement is real, but painfully slow. Will we get there or not?
Many thanks, in advance, if anyone has any anecdotes ofcourse I'd be really grateful.
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I'd say yes it will get there so hold on just yet!Had a similar thing a few years ago.The in my case foal was like yours born outside with no help and its mother was a maiden mare who promptly rejected the foal......disaster loomed.We got a foster mare in, the foal was so weak it found it impossible to stand for days,every 2 hours it was held in place each time it had milk but didn't seem able to stand.
It got to about day 5 and we were all for giving up and I remember having 'that' conversation about facing the end despite our best efforts.At that moment the wibbly wobbly little foal got up sucked the mare and never looked back from then on.It made a full recovery from its poor start,later we put it into training but like a lot of them it was pretty much usless.So in short Pot M keep going its very likely it will come good.Who's the sire,is it by the one up north?
It got to about day 5 and we were all for giving up and I remember having 'that' conversation about facing the end despite our best efforts.At that moment the wibbly wobbly little foal got up sucked the mare and never looked back from then on.It made a full recovery from its poor start,later we put it into training but like a lot of them it was pretty much usless.So in short Pot M keep going its very likely it will come good.Who's the sire,is it by the one up north?
Thank you Prima.
Thank you very much indeed!
I was hoping with your band of mares being a little larger than mine you might have come across something similar - although nothing quite so similar!
I shall report your experiences to the vets in the morning and indeed perhaps we should have 'that' conversation outside the stable door and see if it has the desired effect! I seem to remember Lairy Mary saying never have a discussion within earshot unless you want the blighters to hear it.
I won't say which sire but with your enviable powers of recollection it should be enough for you to have a look in R of M for the mare that turned a bit of a commercial corner in December! No great potential you'll see but I still would like to save it.
I'll report in, good or bad, IDC
Many thanks again, T.
Thank you very much indeed!
I was hoping with your band of mares being a little larger than mine you might have come across something similar - although nothing quite so similar!
I shall report your experiences to the vets in the morning and indeed perhaps we should have 'that' conversation outside the stable door and see if it has the desired effect! I seem to remember Lairy Mary saying never have a discussion within earshot unless you want the blighters to hear it.
I won't say which sire but with your enviable powers of recollection it should be enough for you to have a look in R of M for the mare that turned a bit of a commercial corner in December! No great potential you'll see but I still would like to save it.
I'll report in, good or bad, IDC
Many thanks again, T.
Best of luck with the foal, hope it makes it. We get one or two calves that come early and process exactly the same as you've already done, tube, colostrum, vit/min injection and just a lot of tlc. And fingers crossed, of course, that all the hard work and efforts results in a healthy, viable foal.
If its at the vets I'd be surprised if we can add anything that hasnt been checked / considered. Might have infection thru ingesting mud / bacteria (you've obv taken bloods?), might have hurt itself slipping when trying to stand up first (pelvis / stifles), tendon strength issues should really be overcome by the urge to feed but you never know. Only one not getting up I've seen had a fairly obvious spine defect. Hope you get some movement (literally) overnight.
Thanks WC. I am hoping it is frustration at a seemingly okay foal struggling so that has us more worried than is necessary.
yer ma I haven't actually discussed the possibility of actual injury as it seems to be pretty intact, but I shall mention it tomorrow but as you say, I hope it's been considered. The vets went straight in with anti biotic therapy which I don't usually like, but they are so vulnerable at that age when they have any weakness aren't they.
I hope progress speeds up a bit, but Prima Donna's '5 days' is a comfort for sure!
yer ma I haven't actually discussed the possibility of actual injury as it seems to be pretty intact, but I shall mention it tomorrow but as you say, I hope it's been considered. The vets went straight in with anti biotic therapy which I don't usually like, but they are so vulnerable at that age when they have any weakness aren't they.
I hope progress speeds up a bit, but Prima Donna's '5 days' is a comfort for sure!
I did have a quick look in the R of M's,and think I have found the said mare and can see the stallion the foal is by.If I'm right its by one who is east of you and involved a long late night drive!
Lets hope the next time you report in you have some encouraging updates.We both wish you all the best and hope its a happy outcome for you,the foal,and the mare.Given the circumstances surrounding the foaling and the obvious due you think the foal could be a touch of a dummy foal?It's possible but I'm sure you and the vet have looked at that possibility,what colour are the whites of its eyes?If they seem red then that's very likely,just a thought.Anyhow keep us informed and all we can do is keep our fingers crossed,good luck.
Lets hope the next time you report in you have some encouraging updates.We both wish you all the best and hope its a happy outcome for you,the foal,and the mare.Given the circumstances surrounding the foaling and the obvious due you think the foal could be a touch of a dummy foal?It's possible but I'm sure you and the vet have looked at that possibility,what colour are the whites of its eyes?If they seem red then that's very likely,just a thought.Anyhow keep us informed and all we can do is keep our fingers crossed,good luck.
I swear you could run my business better from Ireland than I do at home Prima! Your memory is obscene!
Foal has made a bit of progress again but still too slow for comfort. Decision day has been provisionally booked for Monday when we'll have a conflab. We've wondered about a 'Dummy' scenario but it seems a bit unlikely as it's sight is good and it's never had a total lack of movement or coordination. It's just a Finadyne, Gastroguard and antibiotics wait and see job I'm afraid, unless you guys out there know different!
Best mare foaled last night and it is the F word not the C word.
However, a filly of her quality over an ordinary colt, for me, every time. Really promising!
Foal has made a bit of progress again but still too slow for comfort. Decision day has been provisionally booked for Monday when we'll have a conflab. We've wondered about a 'Dummy' scenario but it seems a bit unlikely as it's sight is good and it's never had a total lack of movement or coordination. It's just a Finadyne, Gastroguard and antibiotics wait and see job I'm afraid, unless you guys out there know different!
Best mare foaled last night and it is the F word not the C word.
However, a filly of her quality over an ordinary colt, for me, every time. Really promising!
Oh well, not the news I wished to impart but here it is anyway.
The colt foal called time of it's own accord last night. Apparently he started going down hill about midnight and at 3 am there was no going back. We won't ever be any the wiser as to what really happened but everything points to kidney failure in the end and as it was a job to keep him hydrated and he was always passing urine they were presumably compromised from the off.
Bitterly disappointing but a lesson always waiting to be learned every time things start going well. And as everyone at the coal face knows it's a mighty long time to wait before knowing whether the mare feels like making a habit of it
But don't worry about too much sympathy out there guys, it really is lifes rich pattern I'm afraid!
The colt foal called time of it's own accord last night. Apparently he started going down hill about midnight and at 3 am there was no going back. We won't ever be any the wiser as to what really happened but everything points to kidney failure in the end and as it was a job to keep him hydrated and he was always passing urine they were presumably compromised from the off.
Bitterly disappointing but a lesson always waiting to be learned every time things start going well. And as everyone at the coal face knows it's a mighty long time to wait before knowing whether the mare feels like making a habit of it
But don't worry about too much sympathy out there guys, it really is lifes rich pattern I'm afraid!
Sorry to hear that PM. Hopefully you've got your bad luck out of the way at the start of the foaling season and everything else will go to plan. Best of Luck!
Thats very disappointing to hear PotM. You do all you can for them but it does sometimes make me wonder whether the assault on their tiny systems from the anti-bios & painkillers is a better answer than nature taking its course. Mercinary as we all try to be (or not) - are you goosed for cover fee or is this a NOT standing and nursing scenario.
Commiserations any road.
Commiserations any road.
Thanks Posh. I only had 3 mares foaling and no.3 will struggle to coe up with anything out bailing!
Still no.2 is nice and it's onwards to try and get them all in foal for 2014.
yer ma, I know what you mean about leaving well alone! It would have saved a couple of grand too I shouldn't wonder. But actually the one thing I am relaxed about is that by and large the decisions made were the right ones.
I am wondering about the stud fee too. The foal actually never did stand - and held upright it only managed about two gulps!
Let's just say the stallion stud is very reputable and I haven't had to crave their indulgence before so I expect them to play fair.
I am also booked in to one of their horses this year so we'll see.
Still no.2 is nice and it's onwards to try and get them all in foal for 2014.
yer ma, I know what you mean about leaving well alone! It would have saved a couple of grand too I shouldn't wonder. But actually the one thing I am relaxed about is that by and large the decisions made were the right ones.
I am wondering about the stud fee too. The foal actually never did stand - and held upright it only managed about two gulps!
Let's just say the stallion stud is very reputable and I haven't had to crave their indulgence before so I expect them to play fair.
I am also booked in to one of their horses this year so we'll see.
Oh well Pot M that's rubbish news,sorry to hear it.Glad to hear also you have a nice filly by the new one,hope she does well for you.And remember you need her to as I may yet remind you later on this year of my expensive tastes in champagne and the fact you are paying!!!
And good luck with the last one waiting,with him colt or filly I'd be happy either way.Did you get the vet to do a PM?
And good luck with the last one waiting,with him colt or filly I'd be happy either way.Did you get the vet to do a PM?
Thanks Prima, rubbish indeed. I am sure that the champagne they serve in the Grooms Kitchen, Wall Boxes is within my reach though. It's a well known House, Fanta, I'm sure you'll have heard of it. . .
Mare foaled last night as it happens. Colt, so I'm in a bit of a better place right now thank god. Bay too which is a help. It's a biggish (well certainly for the mare) and very raw and slack. However I saw the full brother to the sires big horse last year as a newborn and he would have been bigger and rawer so I am not disheartened. The mare in question always goes 12 months and this is 11 and a half, so as it looks a bit like a 2 week under job I reckon she might have got rid of it a bit early in case it got too big to deliver
.
My, how we hypothesise about these things, when there will never be any way of telling!
Incidentally, I keep those right down on their joints in their box for a few days until they've strengthened. Are you guys over there of the same mind?
I haven't done any diagnosis on the dead foal. We felt that the chance of throwing up anything that would change the way we went forward was very slim and sometimes you have to stop the meter running at my level. Hopefully a decision that won't come back to haunt me! Two more healthy functioning foals in the same week from the group is a comfort too.
Mare foaled last night as it happens. Colt, so I'm in a bit of a better place right now thank god. Bay too which is a help. It's a biggish (well certainly for the mare) and very raw and slack. However I saw the full brother to the sires big horse last year as a newborn and he would have been bigger and rawer so I am not disheartened. The mare in question always goes 12 months and this is 11 and a half, so as it looks a bit like a 2 week under job I reckon she might have got rid of it a bit early in case it got too big to deliver
.My, how we hypothesise about these things, when there will never be any way of telling!
Incidentally, I keep those right down on their joints in their box for a few days until they've strengthened. Are you guys over there of the same mind?
I haven't done any diagnosis on the dead foal. We felt that the chance of throwing up anything that would change the way we went forward was very slim and sometimes you have to stop the meter running at my level. Hopefully a decision that won't come back to haunt me! Two more healthy functioning foals in the same week from the group is a comfort too.
Hi PotM
Very sorry about the foal. I didn't respond initially because exactly the same happened to me last year with the same result. It doesn't serve much purpose guessing what happened, but my vet thought it may have been deprived oxygen due to a tough birth which led to it being a 'dummy' foal. It was a couple of weeks early and it could have been born for 5hrs before i found the foal. This year I bought a CCTV system **** to my bedroom abd she foaled in the field with no problems.
best of luck for the rest of the foaling (not that you will need it)
Very sorry about the foal. I didn't respond initially because exactly the same happened to me last year with the same result. It doesn't serve much purpose guessing what happened, but my vet thought it may have been deprived oxygen due to a tough birth which led to it being a 'dummy' foal. It was a couple of weeks early and it could have been born for 5hrs before i found the foal. This year I bought a CCTV system **** to my bedroom abd she foaled in the field with no problems.
best of luck for the rest of the foaling (not that you will need it)
thanks truehonch, and if I may say thank you for giving me a little chuckle when I thought about you shelling out for your cctv only to have your mare foal outside! That as they say is horses for you.
I'm also having a blank moment as to what on earth you could have written that got the betfair censors agitated!
I'm also having a blank moment as to what on earth you could have written that got the betfair censors agitated!
Comiserations PM,
does anyone else think it considerate of such foals to check out for themselves, saving the extra hand wringing, cost/benefit calculations and that decision, or is it just me?
does anyone else think it considerate of such foals to check out for themselves, saving the extra hand wringing, cost/benefit calculations and that decision, or is it just me?
the word was ****. if it censors it this time it will have to remain one of lifes little mysteries.
potentialmillionaire 03 Mar 13 15:17
Thanks Prima, rubbish indeed. I am sure that the champagne they serve in the Grooms Kitchen, Wall Boxes is within my reach though. It's a well known House, Fanta, I'm sure you'll have heard of it. . .
I'll take your word for that,I know the drink in question but I really don't drink it!
Incidentally, I keep those right down on their joints in their box for a few days until they've strengthened. Are you guys over there of the same mind?
Sort of and as ever it does depend on the individual,If we have such a foal then yes its kept in but even on day one it would spend some time in a yard so it can walk about freely but the mare is far less likely to steam about that way.Within a couple of days it would then spend about an hour out in one of the nursery paddocks both morning and the afternoon.It's amazing just how quick they strengthen up.what's the foal like today...any improvement?And hows the dam of the dead foal is she drying off yet?
I have an interest in two nice one's by the new foals sire,a bay and a chestnut they are both good sorts I'm very pleased with them and looking at them I'm hopeful.I had a look at them a couple of weeks ago,they are not here they are over in England.
Thanks Prima, rubbish indeed. I am sure that the champagne they serve in the Grooms Kitchen, Wall Boxes is within my reach though. It's a well known House, Fanta, I'm sure you'll have heard of it. . .
I'll take your word for that,I know the drink in question but I really don't drink it!Incidentally, I keep those right down on their joints in their box for a few days until they've strengthened. Are you guys over there of the same mind?
Sort of and as ever it does depend on the individual,If we have such a foal then yes its kept in but even on day one it would spend some time in a yard so it can walk about freely but the mare is far less likely to steam about that way.Within a couple of days it would then spend about an hour out in one of the nursery paddocks both morning and the afternoon.It's amazing just how quick they strengthen up.what's the foal like today...any improvement?And hows the dam of the dead foal is she drying off yet?
I have an interest in two nice one's by the new foals sire,a bay and a chestnut they are both good sorts I'm very pleased with them and looking at them I'm hopeful.I had a look at them a couple of weeks ago,they are not here they are over in England.
Really sorry to hear the bad news - 11 months and nothing to show for it but bills.... And a bereft mare... Do glad th Esther's are doing well for you.
Prima, said foal has done very well and so it should given how much it drinks! It had an hour out tonight in the nursery paddock and has a great length of stride to it. Definitely has potential and given that both sire and dam can do a good sort I remain optomistic for now.
dam of the dead foal is doing well. They know when things aren't right for sure and whilst she was great with all the hassle she wasn't milking as well by the end. When I went to pick her up she wasn't eating well which is unheard of and she left the foal without looking back. Glad to be home for sure.
I have seen a picture of one of your foals - or so I believe - is it a nice foal? Certainly looks like it in the photo. Are you pleased with production so far?
dam of the dead foal is doing well. They know when things aren't right for sure and whilst she was great with all the hassle she wasn't milking as well by the end. When I went to pick her up she wasn't eating well which is unheard of and she left the foal without looking back. Glad to be home for sure.
I have seen a picture of one of your foals - or so I believe - is it a nice foal? Certainly looks like it in the photo. Are you pleased with production so far?
Thanks WinningColors. I think the mare will get over it quicker than my bank balance recovers!
Pot'M Glad to hear that your foal is improving, I'm sure you will see the benefit from being able to get it out for a short while. You may well have seen a picture of one of ours. Yes, we are pleased with her, she is a nice filly and I feel sure the sire will be well recieved. Overall the season is going well for us but as ever it seems as though it may be a 'filly year'. We have a nice Teofilo and are pleased with a daughter of STS. It is good that the mare has accepted the loss of her foal, hopefully she should go back in foal without too much hassle. Sometimes in that scenario they can get too upset and stressed and be a bloody pain to get in foal.
Plenty of time Prima to redress the balance of the sexes!
I have turned the mare out with her granny and won't look at her until into next month in the hope that a month out in the good light will get her on an even keel.
I wonder incidentally which way Teofilo is heading. There appeared to be plenty of goodwill with him in 2012 despite things looking a bit stuttery given the level of support/hype that he's always enjoyed.
Thanks kinscem it never really gets easy that sort of thing. But it's going to happen with livestock so we
I have turned the mare out with her granny and won't look at her until into next month in the hope that a month out in the good light will get her on an even keel.
I wonder incidentally which way Teofilo is heading. There appeared to be plenty of goodwill with him in 2012 despite things looking a bit stuttery given the level of support/hype that he's always enjoyed.
Thanks kinscem it never really gets easy that sort of thing. But it's going to happen with livestock so we
Above mare is safely back in foal and thankfully did the decent thing with just one visit from the vet!
So thanks again for all contributions.
Actually I am getting a teensy bit over excited as her 2nd foal is entered up in all the four 2yo races it is eligible for including the one that closed last week. I'd like to think that it can't be totally hopeless if they are still laying out dosh at this stage!
Dre'e'e'e'eam, Dream Dream Dream Dream
So thanks again for all contributions.
Actually I am getting a teensy bit over excited as her 2nd foal is entered up in all the four 2yo races it is eligible for including the one that closed last week. I'd like to think that it can't be totally hopeless if they are still laying out dosh at this stage!
Dre'e'e'e'eam, Dream Dream Dream Dream
Great news on both fronts PM! The highs and lows of horses, eh?
My 2yo has had a sudden burst of testosterone over the last few weeks resulting in 3 falls to me and one to him! Occupational hazard understandably but when he decided that walking on his hind legs could be a new found trend, I booked him a little vets visit.
My 2yo has had a sudden burst of testosterone over the last few weeks resulting in 3 falls to me and one to him! Occupational hazard understandably but when he decided that walking on his hind legs could be a new found trend, I booked him a little vets visit.
Thank you Lairy.
You though are obviously not very well named (indeed rather like myself!).
I would have booked that visit after falling off for the first time, you certainly persevered far longer than was strictly necessary!
Actually, I am not sure you could have been entirely blamed should you have gone looking for a couple of house bricks
You though are obviously not very well named (indeed rather like myself!).
I would have booked that visit after falling off for the first time, you certainly persevered far longer than was strictly necessary!
Actually, I am not sure you could have been entirely blamed should you have gone looking for a couple of house bricks
Exciting times PM, fingers crossed the 2 yo does the business and you can get rid of the "potential" from your username.
Thanks Posh, but I could never lose the 'Pot' - you'd never recognise me 
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