Bloodstock & Breeding
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19 Jan 13
20:11
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Date Joined:
17 Mar 10
Well I seem to have killed every other topic stone dead so I thought I'd type something in and talk to myself instead.
Apologies to those who come on here for help with their punting - I suggest you guys look away now - but I thought I might throw something out to fellow breeders.
So, your starter for Ten.
If you folks out there breed something smart that the market has fallen for, what is your criteria fo returning to the sire of said animal?
Particularly, how keen would you be if it involves returning to an unproven sire who is well and truely in the wrong year?
Anyone out there?
Apologies to those who come on here for help with their punting - I suggest you guys look away now - but I thought I might throw something out to fellow breeders.
So, your starter for Ten.
If you folks out there breed something smart that the market has fallen for, what is your criteria fo returning to the sire of said animal?
Particularly, how keen would you be if it involves returning to an unproven sire who is well and truely in the wrong year?
Anyone out there?
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The experience my in-laws have had recently is positive. In 2006 they sold a Captain Rio (E5K covering fee) as a foal who went on to to make £35K as a yearling. In 2011 they sold another Captain Rio foal out of the same mare who went on to make £30K as a yearling.
In the intervening time between them deciding to put the mare back in foal to Captian Rio the first Captain Rio won 7 times - though nothing higher than class 4. So the criteria would be, no matter how drop dead georgeous and fantastic moving the first produce is, has it done the business on the track. I know that a nice animal will always sell well but if you have wins on your side then that should also offset the issue of a wrong year. Having re-read your post however it looks like you are going to a sire who hasn't had runners yet which is very risky as by the time you come to sell he could be a complete dud. As we know most sires don't make it so I'd say you are on shaky ground. Has the mare bred any winners so far, if so were they smart? If that is the case this could insulate you a bit assuming the stallion doesn't turn into the next Hawk Wing or Dylan Thomas. My own view would be that this may be a gamble too far, although it's a better plan than your "experiment" idea mind.  |
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thanks PP
It seems as if everyone on here has a better memory than me! Was my previous 'experiment' the crooked, small, bad tempered maiden? Still dithering about that one! I agree that the current dilemma may be that gamble too far. However I am also acutely aware how difficult it is to breed a nice horse. Does the production of a full sibling give a sufficiently better chance of breeding a nice horse than the production of a half by a stallion in a better position? Decisions decisions. . . |
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Sent my decent mare to proven stallions twice but the second Compo didn't make remarkable money and didn't run as well as his full bro. Second 'repeat' still an unknown as she's only now 2yo. Did it also with another mare and again, never made the money second time as did first, because I guess that only happens when we're talking Group winners?
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THanks WinningC
I suppose I am slightly influenced by a friend's mare who went to a cheap local stallion in year 1 and produced a sales horse that went on to be a racehorse. Subsequent repeat matings with the same stallion had similar results but every time she went elsewhere the wheels came off. The other end of the spectrum to your experiences for sure. |
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Yes, the experiment I was refering to is the crooked, small, bad tempered maiden. Can't believe you are still considering it, still each to their own and I wish you every success if you decide to proceed.
On your present dilemma, has the mare bred any other lookers from her previous covers or was this latest effort a real specimen? I think I remember from another thread that you were surprised by how well it sold as you saw some faults that the buyers ignored. Assuming we are talking about the same horse are you looking through rose tinted glasses of a good sale from a fashionable first season sire? |
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I am trying to leave my Rose tinteds in their case here PP.
Obviously we are as I said talking about using a sire in a 'wrong' year. In my opinion he was patchy in the last round of sales but mine was a looker from a mare who hasn't been entirely competent to date. When you get it as right as I struck lucky, then the stallion people are pretty keen to get you back which is an added obstruction cluttering the route to the right decision. So I could also choose to shuffle covering budgets, thinking should I rob Peter to pay Paul? Which then ofcourse means you have 2 or 3 mares undecided rather than just the one  Incidentally. Dodgy maiden comes from an acceptable family is by what I consider to be a potentially good broodmare sire and has depth, quality and movement - I don't see why I shouldn't talk up the good points occasionally as you all know the bad ones that's for sure!! |
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In short Pot M don't go to where you've been before esp' on a dodgy year I'd try to remain similar.If it's good enough in racetrack ability you can capitalize on the similarities but if it's no good you can distance yourself and just play on the appeal of the new.You have the Power to decide!
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Ah ha. I had a little wonder as to whether you might be back in town with recent events as they are.
Actually I'm a little worried that with more time on their hands now there might be a potential source of friction at Prima Donna Towers! Particularly as someone might be wandering around a bit pleased with themselves Without doubt a great contribution mind over the years so no disputing validity in these quarters. It's one hell of a difference between my offer and your Power though Prima |
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 Yes I suppose you could say someone is pretty pleased.........me as well.Have you made your mind up yet or not?I guess the offer was very good and very tempting mind.Hows it going with the old horse at the same stud I get the impression his numbers are dwindling somewhat is that the case?Just a thought for your mare have you seen new sire Sir Prancealot?He's a great sort and sure to be very commercial at his fee. |
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I suppose I am mindful of the fact that with the risks in this game as they are - why not take the 'wrong year gamble as opposed to the proven/boring gamble or the 1st season sire that might not suit gamble. After all, as you always say, you've got to gamble on something
And it is a seriously good offer so it really wouldn't need to go that right for it to be successfullish!I shall cogitate further. I'm not inclined to travel for Sir Prancelot as it makes for a significant investment on a horse that you guys will only be paying buttons for! Not great logic I know, after all a profit's a profit, but then as my vet always says, 'Would any of us do this job if we had to stick with logic ! Don't know about the established horse you refer to but I might have cause to enquire. He's not a horse who has ever moved much for me in the past though. |