Bloodstock & Breeding
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Coming as I do also from the farming side, am I the only one who finds that we're all being ripped off over payment terms - and I'll freely point the finger at Tatts as being one of the worst! I find it really almost devious that, if you sell a yearling or a foal, you won't get paid until 30 days after the last day of the mare sale. Fair enough if there were no breaks between the sales but on their own website, the describe each sector as 'December Yearling', 'December Foals' etc. I am well aware there are plenty of slow payers out there but we all pay a fairly serious entry fee, plus commissions should we sell and they need to implement a better system of ensuring rapid payment from their buyers, rather than expecting vendors to be the sole supporters of their cash flow.
It's getting progressively worse each year, almost - Donny being now 35 days post sale are another one. With a serious monopoly on Sales outlets (unlike farming auction houses where you have a far wider choice), I can only see the above getting even more severe and wonder whether the TBA will ever act....
It's getting progressively worse each year, almost - Donny being now 35 days post sale are another one. With a serious monopoly on Sales outlets (unlike farming auction houses where you have a far wider choice), I can only see the above getting even more severe and wonder whether the TBA will ever act....
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I fully agree. I feel that the argument that it simplifies things should the horse need to be returned fails to hold water, as if that was really the case then wouldn't they add on the interest accrued by YOUR money when it was sitting in THEIR bank account
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and at DBS, you have to actually write to them to request your money which seems bizarre in the extreme
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You've always had to write perry to all the sales companies.
They extend massive credit at Tatts and whilst they feel the need to do this then it is there business model and it's up to them really. They also pay us before they have been paid and indeed sometimes they never are. I'm afraid I don't really have a problem with it. It's not an ideal world here! |
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Sorry but I really don't see why an inefficient business model such as Tatts which wants to extend credit 'massively' should be tolerated. In fact, they are possibly transgressing the small business code of conduct recommendations, whereby all small companies (and that includes small breeders!) should be paid within 30 days. One of the main reasons the majority don't complain is that unless you're using a large consignor, you'll find yourself in an unattractive position in the catalogue or your yearling not accepted. Having worked for a couple of large consigners, I know that's how it works!
If livestock markets such as Hetherington & Harrison, Newark, Sedgemoor et al can all pay you within a week - and they have multi-million pound turnover sessions as well - then it's perfectly possible for equine Sales companies to do the same -and their entries fees are far smaller too. However, it's the mind set of an unfortunately large proportion of the equine fraternity to keep the status quo of being somehow a superior market entity - not just talking commercial Flat kind NH sales here but the general equine marketplace as a whole. Equine products generally have a mark up that's just not applied to exactly the same product in the agricultural sector be it veterinary or feed or allied products. |
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WinningColors. I suppose this all stems from the fact that nearly all turnover in this game is conducted at auction, at very few venues and on very few occasions throughout the year.
We are also talking livestock husbandry too so and as I suppose the sales game has largely evolved around the trainer buying a yearling one perhaps should have some sympathy with a trainer not being at his most organised when it comes to sorting out his orders at his busiest time of his year when dealing with his fragile charges. It really is not like getting Tracey next door to help out with an extra couple of shifts at your corner shop whilst you get your owners to commit to buying a horse whilst they are still paying full whack for the ones they are coming to the end of the season with. So buying on Spec. rears it's difficult head. It's an industry riddled with uncertainty, bad payers, unfulfilled dreams and one huge gamble, so how can we really expect one aspect of it to run like clockwork at sales time? I can't see a massive sea change where the sales companies get paid on time for every horse they sell so I will still accept an evened out delay for my payment. I don't quite see where you are coming from with the complaints angle. Do you have an example to enlighten me? I tend to find that Tatts might consider something that doesn't suit me, I will put my point of view over and we will meet somewhere in the middle. That's always life's rich pattern in my book! |
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The delay in payment is quite lengthy.However,you do get paid - even when they dont (and have the associated hassle of chasing your money).In my opinion the delay is worth accepting,for the fact you are guaranteed to get paid.
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I sold a couple at DBS November Sales and am still waiting - do I have to get in touch with them?
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think you do have to ask donny sales for your money, crazy as it seems
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Dominion: if I sell a beast at any livestock market under a Breed Society Sale (and most other general livestock sales as well), I am also guaranteed payment - at the latest within seven days, so that isn't an excuse.
Cunningplan, yes, you must apply for payment to the sale company - I always do it within the day of the sale, via email (they used to kick off about that at one time...! Luddites) and always send a read/delivery receipt, your account details etc, as they love to send you a cheque otherwise, which adds to the transaction delay. The main reason they cause problems is if you're registered for VAT, which I assume most are? If your quarter ends before you get paid and you, hopefully, have a large amount to pay the IR, it isn't helpful if you haven't yet been paid. |
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If that is the case,then I stand corrected.Could it be argued that there are,how shall I put it,less scrupulous people in the bloodstock industry compared to agriculture ?Have trainers and bloodstock agents purchased horses and suddenly not been able to pay for them ?Just a hunch.
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Brightwells are the best, pay after 3 weeks and you don't have to write in for your money. DBS are just awful, rob Peter to pay Paul, eg extending so much credit to some trainers then at the other end they are the only auction house I have come across that charge commision when the horse DOESN'T sell. Beyond belief!
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Doorman, how can they charge commision if it doesn't sell?
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They charge commission on whatever you set the reserve at!! Incredible, I bet plenty that don't read the small print have a nasty shock when that unexpected bill comes through.
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Also gives them no incentive whatsoever to make much effort in selling your animal as makes no diff to them whether it sells or not, they get paid anyway. You'll prob get a minute spin round the ring there and 3 mins elsewhere where they HAVE to make the effort.
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Is this at any price level? At Tatts you get to reserve up to £10k for free then the is a charge after that. I agree with you that at the level I operate these extra costs make the difference at times.
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15k, but it is still rediculous if you have a decent store in May or one in the Newbury so called 'boutique" sale.
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With the last day of the Tatts festival being 6 Dec, 30 days takes us up to 5 Jan. Has anyone got their money yet (i have nt) and if they are late without wading through the small print are there any penalties in our favour?
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For some reason perry, and I can't imagine it can have anything to do with the banks being closed, it always seems to arrive with me on a Saturday morning. Quite odd really
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Being a first timer I had enquired and was told Saturday the 10th.
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but come to think of it the 10th isn't a Saturday at all
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posted at close of play on the 10th arriving on the 12th ... a saturday!
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Run out of money have we Proxy???! I am led to believe that Tatts pay out within 35 days of last day of the sale. That has been my experience anyway!
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On the minus money currently so have rationalised and Mrs P put a block on starting the maiden mare this year, trying to be scrimpingly creative with the other, but not run out quite yet...
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I rang Tatts to double check when I would be paid, as my VAT return is due and the foal was sold in November, so as it will be debited from my account this Thursday, 10th. So I wasn't best pleased when I learned that their T & Cs were changed two years ago (I haven't sold anything since 2010) and it's now 35 day post last day of sale and proceeds would be sent out 'over the weekend'.... I said I didn't think it right that stock sold in November had to wait til December 6th before the sale end was deemed to apply, especially as they themselves divide the different sales up online but was told that they had to waits for over 60million to hit their account yada yada yada... Well, that's their business! Their problems shouldn't be made mine! And I had great pleasure in pointing out, by email, that 35 days post end sale was Thursday Jan 10th - not over the weekend and I expected my proceeds to e in my account by close of business that day. End of.
Email received confirming same, so it pays to get tough.... |
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the eagle has landed from Tatts
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Had to laugh.... They ended up paying me twice!
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Hopefully your repayment terms are 35 days from the end of the Tatts Feb sale
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