Bloodstock & Breeding
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welcome your thoughts on newmarket trainers pls.
i am looking for someone who does not have a yard chock full of expensive animals already but is talented, honest and has a very good eye for a yearling at the october sales.
i am looking for someone who does not have a yard chock full of expensive animals already but is talented, honest and has a very good eye for a yearling at the october sales.
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Paul D'Arcy does very well imvho and is a good chap
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give a few of them a call go along and visit the stables lot of very good trainers with less than 50 horses rae guest,chris wall,stuart williams to name a few who over achieve with limited numbers
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thanks for these ideas. couple of these are top of the list atm but other thoughts welcome. i will go and take a look of course but good to do the homework first.
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jim smith, do you have any ideas of what sort of owner you are/will be?
Plenty of expensive trainers are partly that because there is very plush furniture in their office or a bang up todate owners suite and plenty of Champagne on ice. I don't knock that for a moment because it's a luxury business and if you can afford it then why not. It's not for me though as I don't have the time to be at a trainers every saturday morning and I don't have the inclination to pay for the champagne, the wine merchants delivery costs and the trainers margins, on top of my glassfull! But one has to be honest in that a phone call might be rare and a detailed weekly report is not a given at the budget end so bear that in mind when making your choices. Obviously Rae Guest would be near the top of anyones list and a really small guy that I have admired at times is Charlie (P.J.) Mcbride. I like Noel Quinlan to but obviously that's a punting/dealing sort of operation but I wouldn't hesitate to use him even though I'm not that type. (Actually no type of owner atall for the forseeable future  . |
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If you go to Rae Guest, an excellent experienced meticulous hands on trainer, make sure you get independent verification of the soundness of the animal rather than relying on the great man to be totally honest with you, even if you are a former owner
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Interesting Perry thank you. to be honest i wouldnt buy from any trainer but i am expecting the trainer to help me spend my money at tattersalls, that way we should have the same interests - provided we arent buying from his mate - and i will need the expertise.
PM - no i am not the sort who likes to be pampered. not looking for a gambling operation. |
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I couldn't recommend ant trainer to buy you a horse. As for training I do think you would get better value from Northern trainers. My pick would be K Ryan but there are a number doing very well.
(I know the thread was for Newmarket but I thought I would contribute anyway!!!) |
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Robert Eddery worth a mention, only been going a couple of years and has a very decent strike rate with a small string.
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Why don't you give Amy Weaver a ring?Young knows what she's doing and does the job well.I met her with a group of people last year,she is a really nice girl I liked her.Well worth a thought jim.
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thanks again for the thoughts all.
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if you tell your trainer your budget, I'm sure they will find a way of spending 110% or more of it at the sales with their favourite agent
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charlie mc bride does well with very few horses you get treated well and the care of the horse is second to none.
an excellent underated trainer who if he has the ammunition wont let you down. |
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Having been a former Newmarket trainer, I know them all pretty well. Charlie McBride would be my first choice. He's honest (a couple mentionned on here most definitely are not!), incredibly hardworking, hands-on, and his wife, Bev, who also works in the yard is truly lovely.
Julia Fielden is also worth a look - have a friend who has horses with her and she has done well for him. You need someone who is straighforward, gets the best out of every animal they have in the yard and does well on a limited budget. Shame I don't have my licence!  I'd be happy to go to the sales with you though! (All the yearlings I bought got on the racecourse and all bar one either won or was placed). |
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Julia Fielden eh. Yikes. Plenty good ones mentioned below, meeting is the only way to know it suits. I'd rather take a vet than 95% of trainers to the sales. GL
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If you want to get a 2 y'old winner and don't want to spend a fortune but want to be in with a chance then have a think about David Evens near Abergavenny on the Welsh border near Hereford .I know he's not in NMKT but when it comes down to it is it that important?Unless of course you want to spend ages at the yard.Personally if your in the low money market I'd let the trainer find you one,you can always meet him at the sales.
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Ed Walker or Amy Weaver would be my choice. I really think Ed is a future champion trainer in the making, talented and nice guy without being a typically arrogant trainer which I hate.
Although I agree that many trainers are no good at buying yearlings, i think it is best to get the trainer to buy it; - they cant blame the agent if its no good - they will try that bit harder with it - they wont charge you 5% (most importantly) - they want to buy the best with the budget you give them, whereas an agent is likely to have other clients higher up the list of their own peckiong order. best of luck |
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Wily basically sums up my thinking re the trainer involvement issue. I dont have the knowledge of the game that you guys do. A smaller trainer in particular would have every reason to want to pick a good one. nonetheless Mary I appreciate your kind offer!
my question around people like amy weaver and ed walker is are they the best judges to help me choose a tatts book 2 filly? compared to say rae guest or stuart williams? apart from that issue i would be more than happy to support a young trainer on the way up. |
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Amy Weaver is a sound judge talk to her she has done very well with hers.
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If you don't mind the hard work, then I would go through either the sales results for past few years and see how successful "their" buys have been - as opposed to owners sending them horses or agents buying for them. What type do they buy, do all their 2yos get to the track - how many of their horses don't make it to the track.
Your best bet is to draw up a short list and contact them. And see what they have to offer. (some might not even respond!) Go to their yard, have a chat, chat to the staff (do they look happy? you'd be amazed at how many miserable staff there are in racing and if they aren't happy, then your horse isn't going to be well looked after). Attention to detail - does the yard look tidy and well cared for? Do the horses look well at the races, happy to be there or are they nervy. Go prepared to ask lots of questions, then thank them and say you will be in touch. Once you have made your decision, contact them all to thank them again but not this time. Don't alienate them - if it doesn't work out with the first trainer, you may need them. |
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- they cant blame the agent if its no good
At this point who cares why it's no good? I am too very sceptical of a lot of trainers ability to find a nice yearling. The fact is that a great many of them don't go through what's on offer properly and just flit out to the ring inbetween drinks. They also train one slow/unsound/difficult one by an otherwise good sire and then promptly refuse to buy another one. They may well then spend your money on an unproven but trendy sire who will turn out to be a useless progenitor. But ofcourse conversely they may train a good one by a next to useless sire so insist on stuffing one of those into you jim smith or worse still, said sire is universally popular and therefore your budget may only stretch to a totally horrible representitive that he insists you have anyway. If your research runs to it, I would certainly look at a trainer who is happy to buy workmanlike yearlings by workmanlike sires. If he stocks his small yard with trendy sires then I would be careful of that. As a small trainer it should be easy enough to research your shortlist's string to see exactly who bought what and how successful they've been. As someone who is inexperienced I can quite see why you would box clear of the dreaded 'bloodstock agent' but do be careful with your trainer too, as many of them will be looking to cut the same dodgy deal with the dodgy vendors. Whilst I am not beating the drum for the three trainers I mentioned, one of the reasons I mentioned them is that they have bid for my yearlings in the past without asking for a kickback and in two cases they have bought cheaply and very successfully. |
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and if you are into rock charlie has an ecellent record collection.
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you could always wait a year or two, go to some sales, get a feel for what you like and buy one yourself. How satisfying would buying your own winner be. Iy you buy a well bred filly you will always be able to sell on if she disappoints
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and once you've done all the hard yards finding the right animal and trainer ... then there is the BHA to contend with, the last of the great over-staffed, costly, inefficient, frustrating bureaucracies left in the world! Good luck
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Just as a quick thought jim have you considered buying one from the potential trainer him/herself?Most have yearlings /2 y'olds that they have bought themselves on spec.So with that in mind if its their money they are putting up in the first place they will then try their best to make sure they are buying the sort who they can get a win with.Very good post from Lairy Mary above.
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That's a good point from Prima Donna, if you are happy that the trainer can buy a good yearling then buying post sale could add a belt to your braces.
Lairy Mary doesn't post enough on here - I daresay she's got a life unlike some of us schmucks! - I always enjoy (her)? experiences and practical nous very much. |
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Another £200 coming your way then Pot M,and just one more point this schmuck has got a life......hard to imagine sometimes I know but I have
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More a referral to myself Prima. Ain't no doubt, I'm pretty lifeless!!
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Hi guys I was cutting the lawn thinking about this thread .
What about pitching up at october 1 with a view to finding one falling through the cracks . Call the Scottish vet with the beard , maybe the week before to introduce yourself (he is practical and he knows his stuff ) . Tell him you are looking for a racehorse not a show pony and if he sees a well bred filly that is struggling on the vetinary front but is worth taking a chance on , let you know . Even if you don't get anything you will enjoy seeing the blue bloods ! |
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once again, as a novice buyer I genuinely v much appreciate all the thoughts so thank you all.
for better or for worse I want to take a chance at the sales rather than buy a slightly more mature filly from eg a trainer. I will certainly do some learning this side of october and talk to prospective trainers (selected from the names above) before committing to anything. |
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why not wait untill the breeze ups you can then see some which have potential without the wait ,and you have an idea of what you are getting.
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I feel quite humbled by your comments!
 And there was me thinking I'll creep round these guys quietly as they are sooooo clued up!Sadly I don't have much of a life anymore - but I live in hope that I will return to the training ranks at some stage - having to make do with point-to-pointers at the moment (not done badly there - involved with the champion pointer 09/10) - hoping to get my yearling up and running for next year. Got to break him in first which could be entertaining - he's a ballsy little sod! Arrived back from Newmarket no bigger than a Falabella but has done well and he could make more than the racing pony I initially envisaged! HE should be a 2yo anyway! Have to say I do enjoy taking a raw, uneducated beast and turning it into a racehorse. Proper job satisfaction when you get them on the course and they behave beautifully, know their job, go in the stalls without a hitch and run with promise. |
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just to report that this story has a happy ending:
1. went with one of the trainers recommended above 2. trainer (with agent pal) spent 65% of my budget rather than 110% 3. horse was the most unmanagable animal in the yard this winter but they never gave up on him 4. has now won his maiden with RPYB in very good style cant name names in public unfortunately but Lairy Mary knows all and if she reads this - which she may not - can confirm  |
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Great news Jim.
This forum has got a bit quiet lately, its good to hear it contributed to your success. |
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She does indeed and despite lots of 2 way messaging didn't back it
 But really delighted for you all - and horse looks like it will improve on that run. |
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flushgordon1 25 Jun 12 10:08
charlie mc bride does well with very few horses you get treated well and the care of the horse is second to none. an excellent underated trainer who if he has the ammunition wont let you down. Charlie McBride is a top bloke |